What specifically is "guaranteed to come" in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5?

[JLB]

What was Paul referring to in these 2 verses?

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

What is garaunteed to come is the Day of Judgement, also called the day of redemption, in which each of us will be judged according to our deeds.

Those who believed and confessed Him as Lord, were granted His Spirit as a seal of authenticity until the Day He returns and determines or Judges each person to see if what He put His down payment on, when we first obeyed the Gospel, is what He will redeem.

IOW , a person can indeed go to a showroom to buy a car, and give their down payment, then when it comes time to drive it home, if the car is given a final inspection, and is found to be unacceptable, then the buyer takes back his down payment and does not redeem it.

Those who love Him and are faithful, and live for Him and suffer for Him in this life, look forward to this Day when we will see our beloved Lord face to face, and admire Him. To receive the salvation of our soul and here the words we have longed for, which say - Welcome good and faithful servant, inherit the kingdom prepares for you from the foundation of the world.

• Scripture text from the OP - 2 Corinthians 5:5

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:5-11




All the scriptures about this Day need to be studied and examined in order to reconcile what the scriptures say about this glorious day.


Here are a few - Good for the faithful, not good for the unfaithful.

• when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who claim to know God, but don’t obey His commandments are liars.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10


again
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: verse 6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; verse 7
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, verse 8

Again, we see the crystal clear theme of this Day being good for the faithful, but not good for the unfaithful.


again


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Again, those who are faithful, this will be a glorious Day, but those who are unfaithful to Him, not so good.



I will list more verses about this Day, in the next post, because this one is getting too long.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

What is garaunteed to come is the Day of Judgement, also called the day of redemption, in which each of us will be judged according to our deeds.

Not what the Bible said. Let's examine Eph 1:14 again:
" who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." NIV
"who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." ESV
"who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." NASB
"Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." KJV

So it should be clear that what is guaranteed in OUR INHERITANCE. The day of judgment is WHEN the guaranteed inheritance is obtained.

Please don't miss the FACT that the one who has believed is GUARANTEED an inheritance ON the day of redemption.

Those who believed and confessed Him as Lord, were granted His Spirit as a seal of authenticity until the Day He returns and determines or Judges each person to see if what He put His down payment on, when we first obeyed the Gospel, is what He will redeem.

That's an amazing twist of v.14. Paul didn't say anything even close to that rendition. The words are plain enough.

What is guaranteed for the day of redemption is OUR INHERITANCE.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Scripture text from the OP - 2 Corinthians 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

The Holy Spirit is the GUARANTEE for OUR INHERITANCE on the day of redemption.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:5-11

Where are the words about losing salvation? Just because every believer WILL BE judged according to what he has done, whether good or bad, doesn't mean they lose salvation.

That idea is merely an opinion, but unsubstantiated by Scripture.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

A sad commentary on some believers, for sure. But this verse says nothing about losing salvation.

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10

Which words in this passage SAY that salvation can be lost?

Again, those who are faithful, this will be a glorious Day, but those who are unfaithful to Him, not so good.

I agree with this statement. For those who have been unfaithful to Him, will realize that, and will lose out on eternal rewards.

 

[JLB]

Not what the Bible said. Let's examine Eph 1:14 again:
" who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." NIV
"who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." ESV
"who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." NASB
"Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." KJV

Trying to quote other scriptures rather than actually examining the scripture you quoted in the OP will not change the truth.

2 Corinthians 5:5 show us contextually what is to come.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
2 Corinthians 5:5-11



Jesus will come on the last Day and gather His people at the resurrection, in which He will Judge each one according to their deeds.




Those who believed and confessed Him as Lord, were granted His Spirit as a seal of authenticity until the Day He returns and determines or Judges each person to see if what He put His down payment on, when we first obeyed the Gospel, is what He will redeem.

IOW , a person can indeed go to a showroom to buy a car, and give their down payment, then when it comes time to drive it home, if the car is given a final inspection, and is found to be unacceptable, then the buyer takes back his down payment and does not redeem it.

Those who love Him and are faithful, and live for Him and suffer for Him in this life, look forward to this Day when we will see our beloved Lord face to face, and admire Him. To receive the salvation of our soul and here the words we have longed for, which say - Welcome good and faithful servant, inherit the kingdom prepares for you from the foundation of the world.

• Scripture text from the OP - 2 Corinthians 5:5

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.






All the scriptures about this Day need to be studied and examined in order to reconcile what the scriptures say about this glorious day.


Here are a few - Good for the faithful, not good for the unfaithful.

• when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who claim to know God, but don’t obey His commandments are liars.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10


again


5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: verse 6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; verse 7
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, verse 8

Again, we see the crystal clear theme of this Day being good for the faithful, but not good for the unfaithful.


again


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Again, those who are faithful, this will be a glorious Day, but those who are unfaithful to Him, not so good.



I will list more verses about this Day, in the next post, because this one is getting too long.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"Not what the Bible said. Let's examine Eph 1:14 again:
" who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." NIV
"who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." ESV
"who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." NASB
"Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." KJV"

Trying to quote other scriptures rather than actually examining the scripture you quoted in the OP will not change the truth.

It's quite clear that I didn't "try to" do anything. What I did was directly QUOTE 4 English translations of Eph 1:14.

2 Corinthians 5:5 show us contextually what is to come.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
2 Corinthians 5:5-11

There is no question that the Bema is coming. But that's NOT what Eph 1:14 says is guaranteed to come. It's "our inheritance", which isn't being addressed.

Why is the fact that Eph 1:14 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 are directly linked being ignored?

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

It's clear to see that the words at the end of both verses say the SAME THING.

Since the point seems to be that the only thing that is being referenced as what is to come is the Bema, please provide an explanation of WHY God would put the Holy Spirit in every believer as a guarantee for the coming Bema?

How does that make any sense?

otoh, what does make sense is that God has put His Holy Spirit into every believer as a deposit which GUARANTEES the inheritance of every believer. Furthermore, Eph 1:14 makes the point that the sealed believer is God's possession. That makes perfect sense for our being sealed AND guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption.

However, that fact refutes the teaching that salvation can be lost. So I do understand the strong opposition to the OP.

Jesus will come on the last Day and gather His people at the resurrection, in which He will Judge each one according to their deeds.

Not in contention. But please explain why the Holy Spirit would be a seal which guarantees the coming Bema, because that just doesn't make any sense at all.

Those who believed and confessed Him as Lord, were granted His Spirit as a seal of authenticity until the Day He returns and determines or Judges each person to see if what He put His down payment on, when we first obeyed the Gospel, is what He will redeem.

This makes a mockery of what a GUARANTEE is. Please consider this claim here. And please accept what GUARANTEE means.

IOW , a person can indeed go to a showroom to buy a car, and give their down payment, then when it comes time to drive it home, if the car is given a final inspection, and is found to be unacceptable, then the buyer takes back his down payment and does not redeem it.

This is a terrible analogy. The Bible uses the word GUARANTEE regarding the sealing with the Holy Spirit. Your analogy doesn't come close to what a guarantee is.

When God gives a guarantee, that is the same as a promise, and since God never lies, He never goes back on His promises.

Those who love Him and are faithful, and live for Him and suffer for Him in this life, look forward to this Day when we will see our beloved Lord face to face, and admire Him.

So, it's not that these people believed in Him, they earned the right to heaven by their life. Really? How is that not a works based salvation?

To receive the salvation of our soul and here the words we have longed for, which say - Welcome good and faithful servant, inherit the kingdom prepares for you from the foundation of the world.

A quick study of the parable where the master said "well done" refers to earning something. So is this an admission that salvation is earned then?

If not, please explain this was brought up.

Scripture text from the OP - 2 Corinthians 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

The bolded words are directly related to Eph 1:14 as I've just shown above. And what is guaranteed is "our inheritance" for the day of redemption, as God's possession.

All the scriptures about this Day need to be studied and examined in order to reconcile what the scriptures say about this glorious day.

I strongly advise that as well, in order to realize that your claims are false.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: verse 6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; verse 7
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, verse 8

Again, we see the crystal clear theme of this Day being good for the faithful, but not good for the unfaithful.

What is clearly see here is a works based salvation, the way it's being presented. So I strongly reject these claims as false.

We are saved by grace and kep by that same grace.

Does the Bible say anything about earning God's seal, the Holy Spirit? No. We are sealed because of having believed.

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Please note the tense here: aorist. Point in time. NOT continuous action, as many falsely claim.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Just back up to v.24 for real context: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

I understand why the focus on v.28 and the absence of v.24 in these posts, because v.24 is a verse about eternal security and shows that when one believes, they possess eternal life.

 

[JLB]

There is no question that the Bema is coming. But that's NOT what Eph 1:14 says is guaranteed to come. It's "our inheritance", which isn't being addressed.

Why is the fact that Eph 1:14 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 are directly linked being ignored?

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Please stop accusing me of ignoring scripture when I am discussing the very scripture you used in the OP, showing contextually that the seat of Christ is to come, and must be considered and reconciled when studying the subject of this thread, in whatever scripture you study, whether Ephesians 1, 2 Corinthians 2, or 2 Corinthians 5.

IOW I am the one showing that Ephesians 1:14, and 2 Corinthians 1:22, and 2 Corinthians 5:5 are all directly linked and are predicated on each of us standing before the Judgement seat of Christ, to receive our inheritance.

There is no “going around” the Judgement seat of Christ when discussing our inheritance which is to come, because our inheritance is determined by Christ, at the Judgement Seat of Christ, by Him Judging each one of us according to our deeds.


5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:5-10

• For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,

Nobody by passes the Judgement seat of Christ, when it comes to our inheritance, which is why Paul made it clear with these words -

• Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.

What we will inherit is either eternal life or eternal damnation.

• He will sit on the throne of His glory

All of His people will be gathered around His throne to be Judged according to our deeds.

• Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:31-36


Here are the deeds Jesus will be looking for on that Day.

Faith working by love.

Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’


Here are more scriptures that show that we inherit eternal life.


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


again

25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’[h] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
Luke 10:25-28


Jesus said to inherit eternal life is to love the Lord and love your neighbor.


It’s not hard. Love is what God is looking for in us. He forgave us and blessed us with His very Spirit, to empower us to walk in love, according to His Spirit.

Obeying His Spirit by expressing our faith through acts of love is all that matters.

• he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Galatians 6:7-10



For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:6



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

Just to comment on JLB s request above, when I read a verse that someone offers here, and I hold to a different view than the other person, I am not ignoring Scripture. I just have a different view. So let's be charitable on this okay?

Also, calling out someone's view as false is unnecessary. You see it differently. Just say that. Otherwise I have to start doing some deleting and no one wants that.

OSAS/OSNAS is a contentious issue. I've struggled with it and can see aspects of both sides of the argument (debate). But I've learned over time that it's of no use to get personal or downplay someone's point of view.

N. T. Wright, in debates, acknowledges his opponent's view and always counters with grace and humility. He's a top notch scholar and yet his humility is astounding. What a gracious man! Let's be like that. Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and he will lift you up.

 

[WIP]

Just to comment on JLB s request above, when I read a verse that someone offers here, and I hold to a different view than the other person, I am not ignoring Scripture. I just have a different view. So let's be charitable on this okay?

Also, calling out someone's view as false is unnecessary. You see it differently. Just say that. Otherwise I have to start doing some deleting and no one wants that.

OSAS/OSNAS is a contentious issue. I've struggled with it and can see aspects of both sides of the argument (debate). But I've learned over time that it's of no use to get personal or downplay someone's point of view.

N. T. Wright, in debates, acknowledges his opponent's view and always counters with grace and humility. He's a top notch scholar and yet his humility is astounding. What a gracious man! Let's be like that. Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and he will lift you up.

Ditto!!

 

[FreeGrace]

Please stop accusing me of ignoring scripture when I am discussing the very scripture you used in the OP, showing contextually that the seat of Christ is to come, and must be considered and reconciled when studying the subject of this thread, in whatever scripture you study, whether Ephesians 1, 2 Corinthians 2, or 2 Corinthians 5.

And I have asked for an explanation of WHY being sealed with the Holy Spirit would be needed to guarantee the coming Bema. This still makes no sense to me. What does make sense is when Eph 1:14 is included in the discussion in understanding what "guaranteeing what is to come" means in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5. Eph 1:14 tells us plainly.

IOW I am the one showing that Ephesians 1:14, and 2 Corinthians 1:22, and 2 Corinthians 5:5 are all directly linked and are predicated on each of us standing before the Judgement seat of Christ, to receive our inheritance.

OK, there it is. "our inheritance". That's what is GUARANTEED. Not the Bema. Of course it's coming, but being sealed with Holy Spirit isn't for that.

Why would God seal His own possession, only to reject His possession later on. Does God really need to see one's entire life in order to know how it ends? That would be a denial of His omniscience.

There is no “going around” the Judgement seat of Christ

And no one has even tried to do this. Of course every believer will face the Bema and be judged for all their deeds, whether good or bad.

when discussing our inheritance which is to come, because our inheritance is determined by Christ, at the Judgement Seat of Christ, by Him Judging each one of us according to our deeds.

Right. This inheritance is about reward, not getting into heaven. Just as the inheritance in Hebrews being related to entering the Promised Land.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:5-10

I think we need to determine what is meant by "this very thing" in v.5a, before Paul mentions the Spirit as a guarantee.

In order to do that, we must actually look back in context, not forward, as is being suggested.

So, let's do:
1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Oh, so there it is. Paul is talking about leaving our earthly body and receiving a heavenly body and heavenly dwelling.

So, v.5a is speaking, not about the Bema, but about when the believer leaves the earthly body and the heavenly dwelling.

So again, what is guaranteed in both 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 is about our guaranteed salvation, not that we we be judged at the Bema.

What we will inherit is either eternal life or eternal damnation.

Not at the Bema. The Bema is about eternal rewards, or loss of said rewards. What is guaranteed from Eph 1:14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 is ouir salvation. Plain and simple.

All of His people will be gathered around His throne to be Judged according to our deeds.

Certainly. Rewarded based on behavior. No one gets to heaven based on their behavior. That would be a works based salvation.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:31-36

Were all the different works noted here? How do works relate to getting into heaven. This passage is ALSO about rewards.

Here are some verses on being rewarded based on our works:

1 Cor 3:8 - The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.
2 John 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
Eph 6:8 - because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
Col 3:24 - 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

 

[chessman]

Of course every believer will face the Bema and be judged for all their deeds, whether good or bad.

Careful. judged for our deeds done IN THE BODY.

For we all must appear before the judgment-seat of Christ in order that each one might receive-back the things done in the body, in-accordance-with the things which he practiced, whether good or bad. ​

​

So then from now on, we regard no one based-on the flesh. Even though we have known Christ based on the flesh, nevertheless now we no longer are knowing Him thus. So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things passed-away; behold, new things have come-into-being .​

2 Corinthians 5:10,16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 5:10,16-17&version=DLNT

Oh, so there it is. Paul is talking about leaving our earthly body and receiving a heavenly body and heavenly dwelling.

Yep. The works done in the body are _______?

A. Passed away
B. Not passed away

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"Of course every believer will face the Bema and be judged for all their deeds, whether good or bad."

Careful. judged for our deeds done IN THE BODY.

Yes, of course.

Yep. The works done in the body are _______?
A. Passed away
B. Not passed away

Uh, C. judged for whether eternal rewards will be given, or lost.

 

[JLB]

And I have asked for an explanation of WHY being sealed with the Holy Spirit would be needed to guarantee the coming Bema.

Because it is God’s people who will be gathered before His throne on that Day.

Not the wicked.

Here is what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5 .

• For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:5-10

Unbelievers are not at the Judgement Seat of Christ, but are gathered up by the angels at the end of the age and cast into the fire to be burned.



38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. Matthew 13:38-42



JLB

 

[WinterPuma]

I got to the third page and realize it is the same old same discussion. One was closed already and it concerned the denial of eternal security through Christ by faith. Now, the same accusation renews itself again. And likely is the most repeated topic here.

The question becomes I think, why would people keep rehashing the same claim that we have to work to keep our salvation and can lose it on a whim of God or if we stop obeying, which is works, the scriptures, so as to witness the same diligent one that is here for as long as those that teach works salvation denying they're right?
There's a common thread there.
Why not let the one's that deny the free gift of grace and live their lives working hard to stay saved do that? Let them continue to live their belief that if they slip up once they're back where they started. When they're dead let God set them straight.

To Honey, I read your post when I went into the last two pages here. I am going to save your synopsis of the actual Gospel message. :yes

 

[Runner]

I put down a $500 deposit on a car you're selling. I guarantee to make payment of the remaining $19,500 when the car is delivered. It is delivered in damaged condition, nothing like the condition it was when I put down my deposit. It remains true that I put down a deposit and "guaranteed" payment. You simply didn't fulfill your end of the transaction. I have not breeched my guarantee. Even if we had been so stupid as to put nothing in writing but my guarantee of payment, the law would not hold me to it - your obligation to deliver what you had shown me would be implied.

Given the context of the two verses, it seems clear (and is commonly understood) that the guarantee is that God will deliver on his promises to believers. Those of the OSAS persuasion would like to view this as an unconditional guarantee. A wealth of other verses make clear that it is not an unconditional guarantee. As in my example above, it hinges on the believer fulfilling his side of the transaction.

How many times can this tiresome topic be floated before the moderators agree the horse is dead? Can I start 500 threads trying to promote a flat earth position? To repeat for the last time: No one believed OSAS for the first 1600 years after Christ; the two oldest churches, Eastern Orthodox and Catholic, are as far from OSAS as it is possible to be; OSAS has very thin biblical support; it is much easier to reconcile the "OSAS verses" with an OSNAS position than to reconcile the wealth of "OSNAS verses" with an OSAS position; and, at least to me, which one is correct is utterly irrelevant to my Christian walk.

 

[gr8grace3]

How many times can this tiresome topic be floated before the moderators agree the horse is dead?

John 10:28~~
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Rom 8~~37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Cor 4~~ 18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Jer 20;9~~“But if I say, I will not mention Him or speak anymore in His name, His word is in my heart like a burning fire, shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot.”​

 

[Papa Zoom]

We've seen/heard/read ALL the arguments on both sides many times over. I only read this board (and all the OSAS) to "police" the problems that eventually will show up. :/ So much fun.

BTW, I hope you are praying for the victims and families of this latest shooting (school). Lots of suffering in the world.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"And I have asked for an explanation of WHY being sealed with the Holy Spirit would be needed to guarantee the coming Bema."

Because it is God’s people who will be gathered before His throne on that Day.

How does this explain the temporary indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a deposit GUARANTEEING that Day?

Not the wicked.

I'm not sure the Bema and Great White Throne are different. Could be believers and unbelievers at the same place and at the same time.

However, that is immaterial to the quesiton of what is guaranteed in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5, which is marked by the seal with the Spirit.

Here is what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5 .
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Yes, this is the Bema. But the context for v.5 begins in v.1, which is about our earthly bodies, our heavenly bodies and our heavenly dwelling.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Right. The words "this very thing" refers BACK to v.1 and following.

So let's give it a look-see.
1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

So it's rather clear what God has prepared or fashioned us for; our heavenly bodies and dwelling. Which is GUARANTEED. Which is our inheritance, per Eph 1:14.

 

[FreeGrace]

I got to the third page and realize it is the same old same discussion. One was closed already and it concerned the denial of eternal security through Christ by faith. Now, the same accusation renews itself again. And likely is the most repeated topic here.

The question becomes I think, why would people keep rehashing the same claim that we have to work to keep our salvation and can lose it on a whim of God or if we stop obeying, which is works, the scriptures, so as to witness the same diligent one that is here for as long as those that teach works salvation denying they're right?
There's a common thread there.
Why not let the one's that deny the free gift of grace and live their lives working hard to stay saved do that?

No one's stopping them. But giving them the truth removes any excuse for their views.

Let them continue to live their belief that if they slip up once they're back where they started. When they're dead let God set them straight.

Quite true. All believers in eternity will know the truth. iow, there won't be denominations in heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

I put down a $500 deposit on a car you're selling. I guarantee to make payment of the remaining $19,500 when the car is delivered. It is delivered in damaged condition, nothing like the condition it was when I put down my deposit. It remains true that I put down a deposit and "guaranteed" payment. You simply didn't fulfill your end of the transaction. I have not breeched my guarantee. Even if we had been so stupid as to put nothing in writing but my guarantee of payment, the law would not hold me to it - your obligation to deliver what you had shown me would be implied.

Given the context of the two verses, it seems clear (and is commonly understood) that the guarantee is that God will deliver on his promises to believers. Those of the OSAS persuasion would like to view this as an unconditional guarantee. A wealth of other verses make clear that it is not an unconditional guarantee. As in my example above, it hinges on the believer fulfilling his side of the transaction.

Let's just put aside these attempted analogies and go straight to what Jesus said about the subject.

He taught that those who believe possess (HAVE) eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13.
He also taught that He is the One who gives eternal life. John 10:28a
He also taught that those He gives eternal life (recipients) shall never perish. John 10:28

So, now the question. If salvation can be lost, then how can Jesus' statement be true, for He said recipients shall never perish.

How many times can this tiresome topic be floated before the moderators agree the horse is dead?

Who said the horse is dead? As long as there are those who believe that some recipients of eternal life CAN perish, the debate continues, in spite of dramatic evidence and Jesus' own words to the contrary.

 

[MCoop]

I put down a $500 deposit on a car you're selling. I guarantee to make payment of the remaining $19,500 when the car is delivered. It is delivered in damaged condition, nothing like the condition it was when I put down my deposit. It remains true that I put down a deposit and "guaranteed" payment. You simply didn't fulfill your end of the transaction. I have not breeched my guarantee. Even if we had been so stupid as to put nothing in writing but my guarantee of payment, the law would not hold me to it - your obligation to deliver what you had shown me would be implied.

Given the context of the two verses, it seems clear (and is commonly understood) that the guarantee is that God will deliver on his promises to believers. Those of the OSAS persuasion would like to view this as an unconditional guarantee. A wealth of other verses make clear that it is not an unconditional guarantee. As in my example above, it hinges on the believer fulfilling his side of the transaction.

How many times can this tiresome topic be floated before the moderators agree the horse is dead? Can I start 500 threads trying to promote a flat earth position? To repeat for the last time: No one believed OSAS for the first 1600 years after Christ; the two oldest churches, Eastern Orthodox and Catholic, are as far from OSAS as it is possible to be; OSAS has very thin biblical support; it is much easier to reconcile the "OSAS verses" with an OSNAS position than to reconcile the wealth of "OSNAS verses" with an OSAS position; and, at least to me, which one is correct is utterly irrelevant to my Christian walk.

Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism are far from believing eternal life is secure in Christ alone, through faith alone apart from works simply because both teach works salvation and is full of idolatrous practices that lead and have lead many astray. I will repeat for the last time too, if one believes he has to maintain salvation by works, then that person does not believe the gospel of grace that saves. Salvation is all of grace.. conditioned solely in Christ alone..

 

[for_his_glory]

We've seen/heard/read ALL the arguments on both sides many times over. I only read this board (and all the OSAS) to "police" the problems that eventually will show up. :/ So much fun.

BTW, I hope you are praying for the victims and families of this latest shooting (school). Lots of suffering in the world.

I think there was something like 17 killed. My heart and prayers are with all those families and students. We can surely see the increase of this world waxing worse and need to be about our fathers business and bump up the witness and testimony we have in Christ.