What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What would you call this religion...

Vanguard said:
Ah, you refer to the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14.

Isaiah is in the OT, and written in Hebrew. I am sure they know their language better than we do. The word almah, which is what was used in the Hebrew, does not mean virgin. It means young maiden. The Hebrew word for a virgin is betulah, and it was not used in that verse. Jewish scholars have been saying that for centuries.

In 2011, both the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops and the NIV's Committee on Biblical Translation both agreed, after extensive research, that the Jewish interpretation into English is more accurate. They are revising the verse to read "a young maiden" and omitting the word virgin. You can thank Jerome and his 4th century Latin Vulgate for the bad translation.

That does not mean that Mary was not a virgin. You don't need the prophecy in Isaiah. The Book of Matthew implies it when the angel visits Joseph and tells him not to put her away in shame, after Joseph finds out that she is pregnant. The angel tells him that she carries the son of God, and from there everything is hunky dory. That is what I refer to. They can change Isaiah all they want to.
Click to expand...

The Septuagint translated this word virgin in the greek language. The Jews reject Jesus as the messiah. He is their curse word. A huge part of Jesus ministry was trying to help the people understand the truth in scripture rather than the screwed up interpeation of the Jewish Religious Scholars who "put" themselves in the seat of Moses.

Jesus quoted the LXX often and never once did he or any of his disciples dispute "the translation" of the word to a clear word "virgin". Not only that but the new testament itself confirms that defination.

We also know the disciples and the early Chruch fathers ALL confirm that understanding.

It's one of the foundational teachings in the Christian faith.

New Testament cleans up any doubts a Believer may have.

'Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,' which translated means, 'God with us,'†Matthew 1:23

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," Colossians 2:9
 
Vanguard,

Remember as you listen to and study the works of those "Jewish Scholars".....they missed the mark.

Remember in the NT Jesus would tell the people, "You have heard it said"..........he was talking about what they were being taught by those Jewish religious teachers.

The one that pops into my head is the "law of retaliation" and how the Jewish religious scholars screwed that one up! We also find they screwed up divorce, honoring your father/mother (corban), etc.
 
Vanguard said:
Ah, you refer to the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14.
Click to expand...
Me? No, I wasn't. But I could have been.

The Book of Matthew implies it when the angel visits Joseph and tells him not to put her away in shame, after Joseph finds out that she is pregnant. The angel tells him that she carries the son of God, and from there everything is hunky dory. That is what I refer to. They can change Isaiah all they want to.
Click to expand...
Yes, they can, and they will.

There is not ONE verse that tells us Jesus was born to a virgin - there are multiple verses that imply/say/suggest it.

My faith in Him is based on it, in fact. As with all Christians. Without a virgin birth how can Jesus save us? He would just be another man.

He was without sin.
 
Luke 1

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.
 
I think it's important that she could not be judged to be otherwise. As being an adulteress or a fornicator. But pure, undefiled by man.

As the 144,000 too described as being virgins, undefiled by women.
 
At this point I am going to start a thread about Isaiah 7:14 in Apologetics, because this one has gotten way off topic.

:topictotopic
 
P31Woman said:
We are on topic.
Click to expand...

The topic is defining the religion with those beliefs. Talking about the virgin birth should be under another thread, and not the focus of this one.

Did anyone fail to notice that I never claimed that those were MY beliefs? ;)
 
Vanguard said:
The topic is defining the religion with those beliefs. Talking about the virgin birth should be under another thread, and not the focus of this one.

Did anyone fail to notice that I never claimed that those were MY beliefs? ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, and you also pointed out the it was pretty clear, Joseph and God's conversation, that she was.
 
Pizzaguy said:
Ok, so what is your point here? OBVIOUSLY you know of a religion with these beliefs - so, who are we talking about?
My bet is Mormons.
Click to expand...


My vote is that it's a man made religion created by someone who was exposed to biblical Christanity at an early age who then turned to all sorts of various religions and philosophical ideas to try and figure things. The result is scripture is no long the final authority in faith and life leading to self worship. Man has made himself an idol to worship. That idol is in his own mind.
 
Vanguard said:
If someone had the following beliefs, what would you call them:

1. God is the creator. He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
2. Jesus is God's son, who died on the cross for the sins of mankind. Whether or not He was born from a virgin is irrelevant.
3. A belief in the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity.
4. Agree with Judaism that Ha-SaTan is an angel following God's orders to accuse the sinful, and bring them before God for judgment.
5. There is no such place as Hell right now, but Gehenna will be a place of torment for the wicked after the resurrections and/or rapture.
6. Humans have free will and it is because of free will that bad things happen (someone makes a choice to do something bad).
7. The Bible is not inerrant (completely error free) but is infallible (does not intentionally try to mislead).
8. The English translations are not as accurate as the original Hebrew and Greek.
9. History and philosophy play an important role in understanding religion.
10. Science can explain a lot of the phenomenons presented in the Bible, but God's laws of nature define the study of science.

So what do you think this would be labeled as?

Messianic Judaism? Universal Unitarian? New Age Protestant? Non-denominational Christian?

:confused

Edit: I am aware that some will say it is "blasphemous, heretic, misguided, etc." Keep those types of comments to yourself.
Click to expand...
Those beliefs pretty much all fall within Christianity although I would disagree that whether or not Jesus was born of a virgin is irrelevant and am unsure about point 4. So, other than 2b and 4, and 4 isn't much of an issue, I have no problems labeling such a person a Christian.
 
Free said:
Those beliefs pretty much all fall within Christianity although I would disagree that whether or not Jesus was born of a virgin is irrelevant and am unsure about point 4. So, other than 2b and 4, and 4 isn't much of an issue, I have no problems labeling such a person a Christian.
Click to expand...

I started to but could not get an answer concerning literal bodily resurrection of Christ.
 
P31Woman said:
I started to but could not get an answer concerning literal bodily resurrection of Christ.
Click to expand...
Of course there are other beliefs a Christian must have but I was addressing that list on it's own.
 
I am not describing Mormons, nor do I know of a specific Christian denomination that uses that list.
 
Vanguard said:
If someone had the following beliefs, what would you call them:

1. God is the creator. He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
2. Jesus is God's son, who died on the cross for the sins of mankind. Whether or not He was born from a virgin is irrelevant.
3. A belief in the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity.
4. Agree with Judaism that Ha-SaTan is an angel following God's orders to accuse the sinful, and bring them before God for judgment.
5. There is no such place as Hell right now, but Gehenna will be a place of torment for the wicked after the resurrections and/or rapture.
6. Humans have free will and it is because of free will that bad things happen (someone makes a choice to do something bad).
7. The Bible is not inerrant (completely error free) but is infallible (does not intentionally try to mislead).
8. The English translations are not as accurate as the original Hebrew and Greek.
9. History and philosophy play an important role in understanding religion.
10. Science can explain a lot of the phenomenons presented in the Bible, but God's laws of nature define the study of science.

So what do you think this would be labeled as?

Messianic Judaism? Universal Unitarian? New Age Protestant? Non-denominational Christian?

:confused

Edit: I am aware that some will say it is "blasphemous, heretic, misguided, etc." Keep those types of comments to yourself.
Click to expand...


Hi Vanguard, may I ask since you posed the question, what would you call it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top