When does the Antichrist power show itself?

[Hobie]

So what shows us who and when does the Antichrist power show itself? Lets look in scripture and let it unveil what it has:
Lets take a look at 2 Thessalonians 2:7

2 Thessalonians 2:7King James Version (KJV)
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (New International Version)
7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (New Living Translation)
7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way

So what is this mystery of iniquity, this lawlessness already at work secretly, and what is holding it back. Well lets start with the power holding it back:


For more than 500 years, half a millennium, Rome was invincible. Its laws and legions stretched out from Rome and crushed those who would challenge it, but it too finally faded and it stopped holding back what prophecy had foretold.

Geneva Study Bible


(7) He foretells that when the empire of Rome is taken away, the seat that falls away from God will succeed and hold its place, as the old writers, Tertullian, Chrysostom, and Jerome explain and interpret it... He who is now in authority and rules all, that is, the Roman Empire



2:7He will surely be revealed; for the mystery - The deep, secret power of iniquity, just opposite to the power of godliness, already worketh. It began with the love of honour, and the desire of power; and is completed in the entire subversion of the gospel of Christ. This mystery of iniquity is not wholly confined to the Romish church, but extends itself to others also. It seems to consist of,
Human inventions added to the written word.
Mere outside performances put in the room of faith and love.
Other mediators besides the man Christ Jesus.
The two last branches, together with idolatry and bloodshed, are the direct consequences of the former; namely, the adding to the word of God. Already worketh - In the church. Only he that restraineth - That is, the potentate who successively has Rome in his power. The emperors, heathen or Christian; the kings, Goths or Lombards; the Carolingian or German emperors.




Wesley's Explanatory Notes

2:7 He will surely be revealed; for the mystery - The deep, secret power of iniquity, just opposite to the power of godliness, already worketh. It began with the love of honour, and the desire of power; and is completed in the entire subversion of the gospel of Christ. This mystery of iniquity is not wholly confined to the Romish church, but extends itself to others also. It seems to consist of, Human inventions added to the written word. Mere outside performances put in the room of faith and love. Other mediators besides the man Christ Jesus. The two last branches, together with idolatry and bloodshed, are the direct consequences of the former; namely, the adding to the word of God. Already worketh - In the church. Only he that restraineth - That is, the potentate who successively has Rome in his power. The emperors, heathen or Christian; the kings, Goths or Lombards; the Carolingian or German emperors.


Jerome (347–420): "Says the apostle [Paul in the second epistle to the Thessalonians], ‘Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.’"

So what is this mystery:

Revelation 17:5,9
5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

In the day of the Apostle John, the city of Rome was famed for its situation of encompassing seven hills, i.e., Capitolinus, Palatinus, Aventinus, Esquilinus, Coelius, Viminalis, and Quirinalis, as noticed by Virgil, Horace, Ovid, Claudian, Starius, Martial, and others.

The mystery of Babylon had been a power which brought corruption of man and lawlessness. It had been known more by what it did to deceive and substitute itself above God, but Paul now begins to point it out and tells others.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


So the man of sin, the son of perdition is being held back, but what is this exactly. In John 17:12 we see the name:
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.



But Paul is not talking about Judas as he is already gone from the scene, so it must be the evil which comes into men. That which seeks to be like God and fights against Christ, a antichrist power. The word Antichrist occurs only five times and only in the books of 1st and 2nd John.
1 John 2:18-22 – He is antichrist that denies Jesus is Christ. In John’s time there were many antichrists and he says they went out from them (the Church) but were not of them or they would have continued with them. This tells us the Antichrist came from God’s true Church but they went out on their own.
1 John 4:1-3 – Test the Spirits. Every spirit that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.
2 John 1-11 – Those that deny Jesus came in the flesh are a deceiver and antichrist.
Antichrist = “against or in place of Christâ€, attacking Christ’s character (Gnosticism), specifically with regard to love expressed in obedience to God’s Ten Commandments.
Satan seduced Eve with the bait of becoming "like the most High" (Isaiah 14:14) in "knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5). "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (3:5). What Satan failed to tell Eve, was the result of eating of the fruit that God had forbidden. "But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17)

Satan keeps putting into mans minds that they shall be like gods if they follow what he says, and he tries everything to get them to see themselves as worthy to be worshipped and with power to change what God has given mankind. Thus the Antichrist becomes what gets power from evil to go against Christ and take worship that does not belong to it.

The power that gives rise to the the Antichrist has always been at enmity with those that follow God.
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4).

Why does the Antichrist power have such animosity to God?

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7).

For the carnal mind, Gods Law will be odious; and, the Antichrist will continue to persuade the masses of the indispensability of self-love, without the slightest hint of the necessity of seeking, trusting, loving, and obeying the Living God.

"Thou art worthy, O LORD, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created" (Revelation 4:11).

The bible identifies and shows us what it is and what will happen, you just have to have a ear that hears..
Revelation 13 (King James Version)


1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I'll know who the vile man is as soon as the raiser of taxes dies.

Daniel 11;20-21

Could be the guy talking in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUByhFfxvao

Just have to wait and see.

 

[Bick]

In my opinion, it will be after the Church/body of Christ has departed, as Paul writes in 2 Thes. 2:1-4 assuring the church in Thessalonica that the day of the Lord has not arrived; and that the man of sin will be revealed after there is the departure of the Church/body.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

In my opinion, it will be after the Church/body of Christ has departed, as Paul writes in 2 Thes. 2:1-4 assuring the church in Thessalonica that the day of the Lord has not arrived; and that the man of sin will be revealed after there is the departure of the Church/body.

You need to reread what Paul said because you have it backward.
Paul speaking of our gathing unto Christ said that that day would not come untill there is a falling away and the son of perdition is revealed.

He states a falling away first in verse 3.

 

[RaymondKroft]

It also says that there are many anti-christ yet you all look for just one. Why is that? How can a scripture point out who someone is when everyone who reads it is subject to their own interpretation? That's very hipocritial. The truth is, the harping of said evil is already here. Brought forth by each of you. That power is in your hand. And you prove it well with every post and blind acknoledgment. The power of the anti-christ does one thing and one thing only, uses your free will to project your true nature onto the world while it is masked in supposed good deeds. And the whole while you believe that standing in opposition to this supposed evil is a godly act, when in fact it proves your bitter nature with every harsh word spoken. You have become your own evil.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

the antichrist is already at work. and amen there is not ONE that is an individual man, but many they are all gone out from us, they are all judas's.but when we will really SEE this power at work is around mid trib when the falling away occurs and the spirit of the destroyer from the pit comes and enters into these people the way that satan did with judas, THEN we will see them for who they are because they will not only depart from us but then they will betray us to the beast government to be persecuted and killed.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.


Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.


Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[change]

2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that there will be a falling away from the truth before Christ’s second coming. Paul told us that a “man of sin will be revealed.â€

This man will “oppose God and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped. This man will sit in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.â€

Is this man here or is he to come? Paul could see the “mystery†unfolding in his time (thousands of years ago), so why can’t we see who this man is?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that there will be a falling away from the truth before Christ’s second coming. Paul told us that a “man of sin will be revealed.â€

This man will “oppose God and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped. This man will sit in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.â€

Is this man here or is he to come? Paul could see the “mystery†unfolding in his time (thousands of years ago), so why can’t we see who this man is?

We can know soon as the raiser of taxes dies.
Paul understood this,-
Daniel 11;36
And the king shall do according to his will;and he shall exalt himself,and magnify himself above every god,and shall speak mervelous things against the God of gods,and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished;for that that is determined shall be done.

It appears Raymond Kroft and GodspromisesRyes dont believe this is a man or they simply dont understand how anyone can tell who he is.Well ,if anyone has been paying attention to the prophecies preceding this mans coming they would know when to expect him and in whos estate he shall stand.

If someone such as Raymond Kroft or GodspromisesRyes hasnt been paying attention to the prophecies preceding this mans coming then they would be as Raymond Kroft or GodspromisesRyes.

Daniel 11;20-21
Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom;but within few days he shall be destroyed,neither in anger,nor in battle.
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom;but he shall come in peaceably,and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

 

[jasoncran]

look up antiochus ephineses IV. he fufillls that prophecy in part.

 

[NJBeliever]

First off, the antichrist is a person not a nation (i.e., Rome).

And he himself will be revealed (at least to believers, if not the whole world) shortly before the Day of The Lord (Which is another reason why the Day of The Lord cannot be the Second Coming of Christ, but I digress.... ).

And the Day of The Lord happens after the opening of the 6th Seal of Revelation Chapter 6 (also see Joel 2:31 and Acts 2:20).

 

[veteran]

In Rev.12:7-9, we're told the name "dragon" is another title for Satan himself, and that he and his angels will be cast down to this earth to persecute the symbolic "woman" (Israel) of that chapter.

In Rev.12:3-4, Satan is referred to as a "red dragon" who drew one third of the stars (angels) into rebellion against God, and a system beast is shown having ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. That was Satan's original rebellion in coveting God's Throne. That was the beginning of sin, and was personally done by Satan.

In Rev.13:11 with the "another beast", he is shown to come out of the "earth" with two horns LIKE a lamb, but speaks as the dragon. He's to do great signs, wonders, and miracles in the sight of men. He also will setup an image to the beast for all the world to worship or be killed for not bowing.

In Rev.9, we're told the locust army has a 'king' over them, "the angel of the bottomless pit", and his name in the Greek is Apollyon (from Greek root that means 'to perish completely').

In Matthew 24, our Lord Jesus gave a warning with the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from Daniel about the coming of 'a pseudo Christ' ("false Christs" per the Greek). He warned that when some say, he's in the desert, to not go forth, or if he's in the secrect chambers, to believe it not.

Per Rev.11, it's the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit that kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem.

In Rev.17, we're told of a beast king that was and is not, and ascends out of the bottomless pit. He is of the seven kings, and he is the eighth, and goes into perdition (perishes in the lake of fire).

In both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, God refers to Satan as a 'man'.

In 2 Thess.2:3-4, we're told of THE "man of sin", the "son of perdition", who will sit in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God. Paul is referring to the warning our Lord Jesus gave about the pseudo Christ in Matt.24. All that is pointing to Satan himself, for the idea of sitting in the Temple as God, to show himself as God, is the sin which Satan first rebelled with per Ezek.28 and Isa.14. Satan is the real "son of perdition", because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. Judas was called a son of perdition because our Lord called him "a devil" in John 6:70 for what Judas was to do against Him. So the title "son of perdition" was used for Judas like the the "many antichrists" that serve the devil.

All of that... is pointing to Satan himself being the one coming to this earth in the last days, in person, to deceive the whole world. That role is reserved for him alone, a role that no flesh man could ever completely fulfill all the prophecy of what he is to do. The tradition that antichrist will be some flesh man is an old tradition passed down by men who didn't live to see the times we're in today.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

look up antiochus ephineses IV. he fufillls that prophecy in part.

If you are talking to me,
This chapter is about events leading up to the time of the end and the end itself.Not thousands of years before the time.

Daniel 11;9
And he said,Go thy way,Daniel;for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This chapter began during the 1940s when Israel became a nation.

 

[jasoncran]

look up antiochus ephineses IV. he fufillls that prophecy in part.

If you are talking to me,
This chapter is about events leading up to the time of the end and the end itself.Not thousands of years before the time.

Daniel 11;9
And he said,Go thy way,Daniel;for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This chapter began during the 1940s when Israel became a nation.

incorrect, in part.
history shows otherwise. what was the abomonation of desolation that daniel spoke of?
a pig sacrificed to the god zeus in the temple of the jews.look all the prophecies in daniel, the goat that has 4 heads(greece when it conquered the known world and when alexander the great died) his kingdom was divided up to the generals one of them antiochius I and also ptolomely.

antiochus the IV was known to kill jews for them worshiping the lord , he wanted them to worship him!he is reason that the macabees rebelled. he was a type of antichrist.

 

[NJBeliever]

history shows otherwise. what was the abomonation of desolation that daniel spoke of?
a pig sacrificed to the god zeus in the temple of the jews.look all the prophecies in daniel, the goat that has 4 heads(greece when it conquered the known world and when alexander the great died) his kingdom was divided up to the generals one of them antiochius I and also ptolomely.

antiochus the IV was known to kill jews for them worshiping the lord , he wanted them to worship him!he is reason that the macabees rebelled. he was a type of antichrist.

The abomination by Antiochus Epiphanes was in 168 BC. Jesus prophesied of a FUTURE abomination 200 years later. So it's impossible, going by the Bible, that the Antiochus event was the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy in chapter 9.

 

[jasoncran]

notice i said in part. not the whole thing, if you look at the WHOLE BOOK, you will see where it talks about the cessation of the sacrifice. and it also talks about the kings(ptolomey and antiochuis warring)

and it also talks about the maccabean revolution.

you dont think that the book of revalation is all about the future. that it doenst refer to past events and also future.

define what the abonomation of desolation is. ever notice that all visions are seen twice?
daniel has a vision of a man like christ, john has the same vision
ezekiel and john see the same thing.

you dont think that four horn beast is way in the future and that the bear with the ribs that is lopsided is in the future, do you?

 

[jasoncran]

noticed on the goat that one of the horns is just like the horn on the seven headed one, it talks! but the one in daniel is on the goat, not the same as the beast john saw!

 

[NJBeliever]

notice i said in part. not the whole thing, if you look at the WHOLE BOOK, you will see where it talks about the cessation of the sacrifice. and it also talks about the kings(ptolomey and antiochuis warring)

and it also talks about the maccabean revolution.

you dont think that the book of revalation is all about the future. that it doenst refer to past events and also future.

define what the abonomation of desolation is. ever notice that all visions are seen twice?
daniel has a vision of a man like christ, john has the same vision
ezekiel and john see the same thing.

you dont think that four horn beast is way in the future and that the bear with the ribs that is lopsided is in the future, do you?

I think you are missing my point.

The Abomination of Antiochus Epiphanes -- 168 BC.

Jesus Christ's own words 200 years later: " 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"

I am not quoting Revelation. That is from Matthew. Jesus is predicting a future event which fulfills the prophecy of Daniel. Therefore, it is impossible for the event of 168 BC to be what Jesus was referring to.

 

[jasoncran]

i know that and was going to tie what the abomonation might be, a heathen sacrifice on he alter of the new temple. when daniel was refered to that was the abomonation of antiochus. all jews knew what that was and Lord said that will happen again in the last days.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

it is a spirit that will inhabit all men who have turned away from the word of God for their lusts. this is the beast that comes out of the bottomless pit- the destroyer- and goes into perdition i.e. everyone who has turned back to perdition after having been freed in CHrist Jesus. We have the example in judas, the first son of perdition who was a thief amoung the brethern, who worshipped himself with his owns lusts and put himself over the son of God and the saints of God while sitting in the temple of God. Who became filled with the spirit of the enemy to betray the Lord because he did not love the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.- this is a spirit that will enter men and speak through men and work through men against the most high and against his saints. when the falling away happens, those who have departed from the truth like judas, amoung us will be filled with this spirit from the pit and will go out to betray us all over the world.

This is not simply one singular man. but a body of men that will rival the body of Christ.

Rev 11:7 ¶ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Hbr 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:


1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.


1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[jasoncran]

look up 1 john 2:18. it says one anti-christ. note that later plural in the next sentince.