Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
When does the Antichrist power show itself?
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
GodspromisesRyes
Member
God does not just " intervean" He is already in control and He is fulfilling all His will. For us who walk according to His will, He knows what we ask before we have asked and He has answered already praise God. We can know that He hears us and will preform what we have asked if we are in His will and in this He is glorified in the Son.
GodspromisesRyes said:
Then you have denied yourself the full weight of prophecy about the coming of a false messiah that is to work great signs, wonders, and miracles on earth in the sight of men, deceiving the whole world. Because that definitely is about a certain entity. If there weren't so many Scriptures in other places in The Bible warning of that particular false one, then you would be correct in only assigning the antichrist label to an evil spirit(s) working opposite The Holy Spirit.
In 2 Cor.11, when Paul mentioned the idea of "another Jesus", do you think he was speaking of many Jesus' or just one entity?
In Rev.13:11 forward, is that about a spirit, or about an man on earth working miracles in the sight of men, and setting up an image of the beast for false worship?
In Rev.12:3-4, who is that "red dragon"?
Per Rev.12:7-9, who is cast down to the earth with his angels?
In Rev.17:10-11, is that king a man, or just a spirit?
In Matthew 24:23-26, is that a man, or just the spirit of antichrist?
In 2 Thess.2:3-4, why would you think that "man of sin" is some spirit and not man?
God's Word does use the idea of metaphor and allegory or parable a lot, but the objects are usually real and exist in reality. And when His Word is pointing to a man, it means a man, not a spirit, even though evil spirits exist.
I think John well knew who he was talking about:
John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)
Shilohsfoal
Member
Daniel 11;21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom;but he shall come in peaceably,and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Could ask if this is a man.This is the man Paul is speaking about when he said the man of sin.
Shouldnt take long to find out too.By my calculations ,he will be the next president of the USA. :crazy
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom;but he shall come in peaceably,and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Could ask if this is a man.This is the man Paul is speaking about when he said the man of sin.
Shouldnt take long to find out too.By my calculations ,he will be the next president of the USA. :crazy
GodspromisesRyes
Member
"Because that definitely is about a certain entity."veteran said:
I agree It is a certian entity. I just do not believe that the bible shows that " entity" to be one singular man, but instead a BODY of people ruled over and working by a false spirit. Just as how the harlot is not one women and the woman is not one woman and the beast is not one man etc... This entity is a body of people all working in the dsame false spirit meant to be the mimic and rival of the true prophets of God the two witnesses.
"In 2 Cor.11, when Paul mentioned the idea of "another Jesus", do you think he was speaking of many Jesus' or just one entity?"
I do not believe paul is saying there is only one other jesus. But that any Jesus that is not THE Jesus is another jesus.but beyond htat, even if you believe it is ONE then you must admit that it must be a spirit and not a man because if both we now and the corinthians then could all recieve another jesus then it could not have been a physical man or he must have been alive for the past 2000 yrs. Or else it has to be a spirit of another jesus if it is only one other false jesus.
"In Rev.13:11 forward, is that about a spirit, or about an man on earth working miracles in the sight of men, and setting up an image of the beast for false worship?"
it is a spirit working in a body of men who are all false prophets as jesus warned there would be many false prophets. and john showed there are many. But they are certianly united in body and purpose by the spirit of that beast that rules over them.
The red dragon is satan and is cast down with his angels.
In Rev.17:10-11, is that king a man, or just a spirit? That is 100% positivly a spirit. It is a king angel over the bottomless pit according to revelation.Those kings are all king spirits or principalities of the past beast government kings who have ruled in the past over their nation and who will be united in the end time government along with this specific beast spirit which comes up out of the bottomless pit rev 9:11.
"In Matthew 24:23-26, is that a man, or just the spirit of antichrist?"
That is many men claiming falsely to be Christ. not just one Jesus makes that clear.Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
"In 2 Thess.2:3-4, why would you think that "man of sin" is some spirit and not man?"
The " man of sin" is shown by paul to be the flesh. the carnal nature. And these are people plural not one who will fall away from Christ and from us because they live following their flesh instead of Christ. For this reason GOd will send THEM a strong delusion so that they believe the lie.They will then be inhabited by the spirit from the bottomless pit who goes into perdition which hey are.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
notice he that is coming who God will destroy is IN THEM THAT PERISH. it is a witcked spirit that is IN PEOPLE who perish because they did not love the truth so God sent them a delusion. the men who fell away are the man of sin they follow the flesh. and because of this they get filled with the spirit that goes into perdition who God will destroy.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
GodspromisesRyes said:
I do understand the foundation you're coming from, however, did you notice in Rev.13 two DIFFERENT beast types are given? The first beast comes out of the 'sea' and involves a system of power over the peoples of the earth. But the "another beast" is a religious beast linked with the dragon's working. Per God's Word, there's only one dragon, Satan himself (Rev.12:9).
I didn't mean for you to have to answer all these, I just wanted you to consider them, and go read more on them. Paul compares being decieved in 2 Cor.11 to how Satan deceived Eve in the beginning. He ties that with the idea of the "another Jesus". Later in that chapter Paul reveals that no marvel that Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. The phrase 'is transformed' in the Greek means 'to transfigure or disguise'. Paul is being pretty clear there about the idea of a particular false messiah, and not many antichrists.
Rev.13:11 about the "another beast" that comes up out of the earth, is about a specific entity. He has two horns like a lamb (Jesus), but speaks as a dragon. He exercises all the power of the first beast system, which means he rules over it. The great wonders and miracles he's to work link to the same entity our Lord Jesus warned us about in Matt.24 and Mark 13 when people begin saying 'Lo, Christ is here', or 'there', and our Lord said to believe it not. That's about a certain entity, not many. It also aligns with the beast king of Rev.17, and the "vile person" of Daniel 11. You have to ADD the idea of that being about many antichrists, which even then, it doesn't work as to how all that's written.
Yes, the "red dragon" of Rev.12:3-4 was about Satan, his original rebellion with drawing a third of the angels into rebellion with him, which happenned long ago, even before Adam and Eve.
But you left out my next question about Rev.12:7-9 with that dragon Satan being cast down to the earth in the last days with his angels, after the war in heaven. That tells me you're struggling with that truth, and not yet prepared to accept the Scripture as written. So I see no need to continue response.
Shilohsfoal
Member
veteran said:
Thats who Ive been saying all this time is the second beast in Judea.The army that the vile person sends to Judea is the same to make fire come down in the sight of men.Those arms that stand on part of the king of the north is that which places the abomination of desolation.In the book of Rev that abomination is called the mark of the beast.
The first beast is already there now.The ten muslim kings gave thier dominion(Palestine)unto the beast(the Israeli regime).The beast that was (2000 years ago) and is not(during the dispora)and yet is(today).
I understand the king of the north has intelegence with those who forsake the holy covenant in the book of Daniel and I understand those are the jews who reject Christ.What I wonder is if those religious leaders can get this army to do to the saints in Judea the same as the religious leaders got the romans to do to Jesus.It looks as if the saints in Judea will be walking in Jesus footsteps so to speak for the space of three and a half years.
Shilohsfoal said:
I understand what you mean, but Dan.11:32 says arms will stand on HIS part, meaning by reason of or through the vile person's power. And does the ten horns really fit ten muslim kings, instead of over all the nations of the earth per Rev.17:15?
That timing also supposes a third temple already standing for sacrifices to be happenning. We haven't reached that time yet.
R
RaymondKroft
Guest
First in order for god to be all knowing about how we begin and end then a certain level of predestination has to be inplied. There fore to walk in his plan is illrelevent since we are already predestine to do it and furthermore faith and prayer has no place since it has already been chosen. Therefore vainity and ego comes in. So either God knows whats going to happen or God doesn't! KNowing this decides your hypocracy.
Shilohsfoal
Member
Rev 17;15 is describing the people of the great city called Babylon the great.It is describing the people in the promised land.Those Jesrusalem rules over.These people came from all over the world to serve the beast.And yes .The ten kings are ten muslim regimes.-kings-presidents.veteran said:
It is written that these ten kings shall make war with the Lamb.I can tell you already that they are told in the quran to take back the land that was taken from them.When they attempt to do so,is when the saints go marching in.Those ten kings will fail miserably.
Shilohsfoal said:
Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
(KJV)
Actually, it's defining whole "nations" of peoples, and not just the area around Jerusalem. The Revelation Babylon harlot is only in reference to a "great city" that acts as the seat of the beast, and rules from there. But the Rev.13:1 beast itself is in reference to a system of control over all nations, i.e. "one world government."
Check out the list of nations given in Ezek.38 and you'll find nations and areas involved in coming upon Israel in final that aren't located in the middleast, like Russia mainly ("chief prince of Meshech and Tubal").
God's Word points to a temple in Jerusalem for the antichrist to sit in, and place the abomination of desolation idol for the whole world to worship, and is pointing to those who forsake the holy covenant allowing that to happen. Then God sends His "two witnesses" to Jerusalem to testify against it, and they are in the old prophetic roles of Elijah and Moses (by the type of works they do). At the end of their testimony, they are killed by the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit. That's when the following happens...
Ezek 38:8-12
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
(KJV)
Per the rest of Ezekiel 38 & 39, God will step in and destroy that host army that comes out of the northern quarters, which ushers in Christ's Milennium reign.
Really...I'm just about tired of seeing people jumping on this bandwagon about there being one antichrist...just because 'culture' and 'religion' has taught that there is going to arise this 'one' individual who will 'control' the world system...it doesn't mean that everyone should believe that...it us utter nonsense... firstly...the antichrist is a spirit who will influence men in the last days..
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
All the time everyone is looking for this one individual, when already the spirit of antichrist is already at work...atheism, worldly religions for example..
I mean ...jeez...ppl make the bible seem so complicated...its time ppl stop leaning towards the knowledge of men, 'bible scholars' (i'm not even gonna go there)...and start leaning towards the knowledge of God, which passeth ALL understanding....
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
All the time everyone is looking for this one individual, when already the spirit of antichrist is already at work...atheism, worldly religions for example..
I mean ...jeez...ppl make the bible seem so complicated...its time ppl stop leaning towards the knowledge of men, 'bible scholars' (i'm not even gonna go there)...and start leaning towards the knowledge of God, which passeth ALL understanding....
Shilohsfoal
Member
jasoncran said:
The bible says"arms shall stand on his part"
Sounds like an army.
Shilohsfoal
Member
veteran said:
This war your speaking of takes place at the end of the 1000 year reign.Israel today is not the land of unwalled villages.There are many walls in Israel.
Rev 20;7-9
And when the 1000 years are expired,Satan shall be losed out of his prison.
And shall go ot to decieve the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth.Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle;the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city,and fire came down from God out of heaven,and devoured them.
Now before the 1000 year reign ,All the walls will come tumbling downNot one stone will be left upon another.
Shilohsfoal said:
The events of Ezek.38 & 39 happen prior... to Christ's coming and His thousand years reign. It gives specific nations on earth that are aligned to come up against Israel, and that alignment of specific nations is just about 90 percent complete today, meaning it's set to happen in our times just prior to Christ's return. Ezekiel 38-39 is about the battle of a valley called Hamongog, a place that is still unknown today. It's about a great army made up of those specific nations that come up against Israel in general, meaning not just the saints. Then in Ezekiel 40 forward, it's about Milennial timing and the Milennial temple with Christ's reign with a rod of iron.
But the battle at the end of Christ's thousand years reign only mentions Gog and Magog in the sense of those who follow Satan while making no name of specific nations, and no named place of battle is associated with it. It is not the same timing of Ezek.38 & 39. That second Gog and Magog event is Satan leading the nations up against the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" that is on earth, and protected by God's fire all around. That's clearly a different condition on earth where that "camp of the saints" is, because it only begin to exist after Christ's coming.
twospirits
Member
There are many walls in Israel today yes, but only in recent years.
Twospirits