When Even God gives up on us (Romans 1:26-2:1)

[godsquadgeek]

That don’t make sense

If we are saved by grace alone. Without faith. Then everyone in the world would be saved. Because if the only qualification is grace, then grace can save anyone without limit, and would actually save every person in the world, or throughout history, hitler, stalin, would all be saved.

 

[godsquadgeek]

So you believe your will is outside Gods control and supremacy? I asked you before, what does it mean for God to be Sovereign?

sovereignty means He allows me to be a free moral agent. I have full control to accept or reject morality or God. Yet God does tend to put his elect into situations which cater to faith. And I would expect nothing more.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I would believe you, accept the actual phrase, give up, is used in reference to God giving them up to a reprobate mind, in romans one.

I'm not asking you to believe me.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Question: "What does it mean to have a reprobate mind?"

Answer: The phrase “reprobate mind” is found in Romans 1:28 in reference to those whom God has rejected as godless and wicked. They “suppress the truth by their wickedness,” and it is upon these people that the wrath of God rests (Romans 1:18). The Greek word translated “reprobate” in the New Testament is adokimos, which means literally “unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally).” https://www.gotquestions.org/reprobate-mind.html

I love that Got Questions?, I sometimes screw up in typing and make it God Questions, which really isn't a mistake if you think about it, because they have related articles linked beneath the main one. So you can keep studying in a line of interest till your little hearts content.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Question: "What does it mean to have a reprobate mind?"

Answer: The phrase “reprobate mind” is found in Romans 1:28 in reference to those whom God has rejected as godless and wicked. They “suppress the truth by their wickedness,” and it is upon these people that the wrath of God rests (Romans 1:18). The Greek word translated “reprobate” in the New Testament is adokimos, which means literally “unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally).” https://www.gotquestions.org/reprobate-mind.html

I love that Got Questions?, I sometimes screw up in typing and make it God Questions, which really isn't a mistake if you think about it, because they have related articles linked beneath the main one. So you can keep studying in a line of interest till your little hearts content.

I would disagree with this article, as reprobate mind is not God rejecting someone, it's that someone has rejected God and gotten to the point where salvation is meaningless and useless to them. God will not force salvation on anyone.

 

[MCoop]

If we are saved by grace alone. Without faith. Then everyone in the world would be saved. Because if the only qualification is grace, then grace can save anyone without limit, and would actually save every person in the world, or throughout history, hitler, stalin, would all be saved.

Grace alone results in Gods elect resting in Christ by faith alone apart from works. And that is why I said your statement made no sense. It seems you believe God saves a wretched sinner by something honorable in the sinner? That’s not salvation by grace. What gives you confidence and assurance that you’ve been delivered from the guilt of your sin? Seeing you believe Christ and His merits alone cannot keep a believer saved?

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I would disagree with this article, as reprobate mind is not God rejecting someone, it's that someone has rejected God and gotten to the point where salvation is meaningless and useless to them. God will not force salvation on anyone.

I would suggest that the author of that article using the word, rejected, to describe those who suppress the truth by their wickedness, is a misuse of a word; rejected.
It does not hold that God rejects someone because they decide to live in the world and reject the truth of God in Christ's gospel. God doesn't force people to be saved. He calls whom he will to his son. John 6:44.
There are two kinds of people being discussed there. God never gives up on the saints in his son's covenant. Not ever. God also does not force anyone to be saved, or be damned. People give themselves up to a reprobate mind of their own choosing. Because the will of God is not known to them.

They reject it utterly. These people are not that saint that may have fallen into sins, or bad behavior, thinking to just walk away from the faith. Because while that Christian sister or brother does that, Jesus did not give up on them when they are eternally his.
God is a faithful God. And eternal salvation in the grace of an all knowing God is exactly what that all knowing God said of it. Eternal.

Therefore, I would suggest you are misreading Romans 1. God does not give up on us, his saints. Those in Christ. Those who are of reprobate mind sacrifice themselves and they know not God. But God knows his sheep. And they know him. John 10: 14, and 27.

 

[godsquadgeek]

I would suggest that the author of that article using the word, rejected, to describe those who suppress the truth by their wickedness, is a misuse of a word; rejected.
It does not hold that God rejects someone because they decide to live in the world and reject the truth of God in Christ's gospel. God doesn't force people to be saved. He calls whom he will to his son. John 6:44.
There are two kinds of people being discussed there. God never gives up on the saints in his son's covenant. Not ever. God also does not force anyone to be saved, or be damned. People give themselves up to a reprobate mind of their own choosing. Because the will of God is not known to them.

They reject it utterly. These people are not that saint that may have fallen into sins, or bad behavior, thinking to just walk away from the faith. Because while that Christian sister or brother does that, Jesus did not give up on them when they are eternally his.
God is a faithful God. And eternal salvation in the grace of an all knowing God is exactly what that all knowing God said of it. Eternal.

Therefore, I would suggest you are misreading Romans 1. God does not give up on us, his saints. Those in Christ. Those who are of reprobate mind sacrifice themselves and they know not God. But God knows his sheep. And they know him. John 10: 14, and 27.

you have said numerous times that God does not force someone to be saved. Yet if you decided one day hypothetically to not be saved for some reason, (say self deception for example), you can't automatically reset your salvation to having never been saved. You were saved, and decided not to be. Thats part of a reprobate mind.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

you have said numerous times that God does not force someone to be saved. Yet if you decided one day hypothetically to not be saved for some reason, (say self deception for example), you can't automatically reset your salvation to having never been saved. You were saved, and decided not to be. Thats part of a reprobate mind.

I didn't save myself in the first place. Did I know God's name before the womb? Or did God know mine?

 

[Kidron]

I would disagree with this article, as reprobate mind is not God rejecting someone, it's that someone has rejected God and gotten to the point where salvation is meaningless and useless to them. God will not force salvation on anyone.

-j

A reprobate mind is also described as a "seared conscience".
In a believer, if this has happened, then they are still saved, but, over time, they have sinned and sinned and continued and this behavior is like sandpaper on wood, regarding how it affects the conscience.

Here is something that novice christians, or those who tend to reject grace in favor of their own self righteousness as their way to "help Christ out with His cross" by their pov that they informs them that they need to be working those good works to sort of finalize their salvation, as if the blood of Christ is not.... quite.... enough..... for the job and needs their help.
So, what i'll teach now is not going to fit a self righteous do-gooder who is working their way into heaven with the help of the cross as a back up. (just in case).
How do u determine if you are one of those?
Just take the test. The test is simple..... Here it is.....ask yourself....."if i drop dead before i finish reading this post, ..what am i trusting to get me to heaven"...
And if your only answer in your mind is not..."Jesus"...then you are trusting yourself to get yourself to heaven.
Did you pass the test?
If you didnt, ....if things like water baptism, and confessing sins, and some scripture by James, or any of this popped up in your head instead of..."what is all my righteousness, nothing but the blood of JESUS".......then you failed.
"F".

So, here it is..
Once you are saved, this means that God has now actually given you the "gift of righteousness", which recreates you to be as sinless as Christ.
The law has now become abolished, regarding its power to condemn you, or be used against you.
This is why your bible says you are no longer "UNDER IT"....like a slave under a chain.
A believer is now eternally accepted by God, as being righteous, as this is the EFFECT that the Blood Atonement has on you, and its an ETERNAL effect.
Now, some of you, will never understand this, and will never accept it if you could.
Sorry.
Now my point is (regarding this Thread's topic), is that a christian reprobate, is simply someone who has returned to his former wicked lifestyle and has forgotten what God has accomplished in their life. And by doing this, and staying there, backslidden, their carnal "works of the flesh" deeds they commit over time, have the effect of hardening and desensitizing their conscience, and THAT situation is what creates a christian reprobate.
And in an unbeliever, as you generally find in somone who is past 40 and has been "churched" a lot, and has resisted the HSpirt over time as they heard hundreds of "alter calls".....what happens is, that their ability, their sensitivity within their conscience, can no longer be wooed and touched and softened and "drawn" by the Holy Spirit, and that person has a ticket to hell....its been punched.
Yes, there are gazillions of "death bed" conversions, but in general, those tend to be committed not be people who have resisted getting saved during the last 75 years of hearsing alter calls and yawning.
They yawned at the end, but for those first 30 years, they had sweaty palms and were sweating and resisting getting saved.
Finally they dont have to resist anymore, because they dont FEEL THE PULL, or the tug in their heart.
= seared conscience = reprobate mind.

When you Study the 4th chapter of the book of Romans, then you discover that Paul has confirmed that God does not hold a believer accountable in eternity for their sins, with respect to their sonship position.
Why, because, "He who knew no sin was made to be sin", for YOU.
All of this is discovered when you study that "CUP" that Jesus was talking about just before they laid it on Him with that scourging and that tree and those nails and that time He had to endure it, for YOU.
That is how God on a cross took your sin, then died for you.
THat is the atonement.
its a swap.
God takes your sin and Jesus is the sin bearer, and you get the "righteousness of Christ" as your new position in eternity.(by Faith).
THAT is salvation, applied once and forever, and people who trip over OSAS, dont understand this, and many of them never will.
But, i digress, as we have already discussed self righteous types who are busy tripping over Grace on their way to try to help Jesus's shed blood out with their "works".

Paul teaches that "God does not impute their sins to them"...which means that because they are no longer under the law, He has no right., as this is how He created salvation to exist.
It does not exit within the LAW.
It deletes it by Grace.
"the law came by moses", but GRACE AND TRUTH = came by = Jesus The Christ.
Grave created by the blood that saved you, exists without the law having any RIGHT to judge you ever again as a "sinner", and that is because the blood of Christ has been shed to SOLVE this very issue that all non-believers have with the law.
See, a believer is no longer "UNDER", or held accountable" by the law, as they are UNDER GRACE.
This includes the reprobate christian.
This included me and you, if you are born again.

And you say....."but wait, isn't what you are teaching....... a LICENSE to sin"?
Of course not.
There is no sin for a believer, so there is no license, .....that Point #1.
Point #2 is.... there is a spiritual law in the earth, = "sowing and reaping".
And this situation is what develops in a reprobates life, and also a non reprobates life.
So, if you sin as a non-believer, or if you as a Christian are no longer held accountable in eternity for your "works of the flesh", you do not get a free ride down here, as the law of "sowing and reaping" will harvest pain and suffering and sometimes death, as a consequence of living outside the principles of God's requirements.
So there is your "license".
Drive carefully.
See, This spiritual law remains in effect, and affects both the Christian and the non.

 

[th1b.taylor]

GSG,
You must be the one setting those fire in Ventura County, CA, you certainly lit one here. I thought I would wait a day or two until this string was on page two and look at where this has gone already, Shout if you get bogged down!

 

[Papyrus_dust]

-j

A reprobate mind is also described as a "seared conscience".
In a believer, if this has happened, then they are still saved, but, over time, they have sinned and sinned and continued and this behavior is like sandpaper on wood, regarding how it affects the conscience.

Here is something that novice christians, or those who tend to reject grace in favor of their own self righteousness as their way to "help Christ out with His cross" by their pov that they informs them that they need to be working those good works to sort of finalize their salvation, as if the blood of Christ is not.... quite.... enough..... for the job and needs their help.
So, what i'll teach now is not going to fit a self righteous do-gooder who is working their way into heaven with the help of the cross as a back up. (just in case).
How do u determine if you are one of those?
Just take the test. The test is simple..... Here it is.....ask yourself....."if i drop dead before i finish reading this post, ..what am i trusting to get me to heaven"...
And if your only answer in your mind is not..."Jesus"...then you are trusting yourself to get yourself to heaven.
Did you pass the test?
If you didnt, ....if things like water baptism, and confessing sins, and some scripture by James, or any of this popped up in your head instead of..."what is all my righteousness, nothing but the blood of JESUS".......then you failed.
"F".

So, here it is..
Once you are saved, this means that God has now actually given you the "gift of righteousness", which recreates you to be as sinless as Christ.
The law has now become abolished, regarding its power to condemn you, or be used against you.
This is why your bible says you are no longer "UNDER IT"....like a slave under a chain.
A believer is now eternally accepted by God, as being righteous, as this is the EFFECT that the Blood Atonement has on you, and its an ETERNAL effect.
Now, some of you, will never understand this, and will never accept it if you could.
Sorry.
Now my point is (regarding this Thread's topic), is that a christian reprobate, is simply someone who has returned to his former wicked lifestyle and has forgotten what God has accomplished in their life. And by doing this, and staying there, backslidden, their carnal "works of the flesh" deeds they commit over time, have the effect of hardening and desensitizing their conscience, and THAT situation is what creates a christian reprobate.
And in an unbeliever, as you generally find in somone who is past 40 and has been "churched" a lot, and has resisted the HSpirt over time as they heard hundreds of "alter calls".....what happens is, that their ability, their sensitivity within their conscience, can no longer be wooed and touched and softened and "drawn" by the Holy Spirit, and that person has a ticket to hell....its been punched.
Yes, there are gazillions of "death bed" conversions, but in general, those tend to be committed not be people who have resisted getting saved during the last 75 years of hearsing alter calls and yawning.
They yawned at the end, but for those first 30 years, they had sweaty palms and were sweating and resisting getting saved.
Finally they dont have to resist anymore, because they dont FEEL THE PULL, or the tug in their heart.
= seared conscience = reprobate mind.

When you Study the 4th chapter of the book of Romans, then you discover that Paul has confirmed that God does not hold a believer accountable in eternity for their sins, with respect to their sonship position.
Why, because, "He who knew no sin was made to be sin", for YOU.
All of this is discovered when you study that "CUP" that Jesus was talking about just before they laid it on Him with that scourging and that tree and those nails and that time He had to endure it, for YOU.
That is how God on a cross took your sin, then died for you.
THat is the atonement.
its a swap.
God takes your sin and Jesus is the sin bearer, and you get the "righteousness of Christ" as your new position in eternity.(by Faith).
THAT is salvation, applied once and forever, and people who trip over OSAS, dont understand this, and many of them never will.
But, i digress, as we have already discussed self righteous types who are busy tripping over Grace on their way to try to help Jesus's shed blood out with their "works".

Paul teaches that "God does not impute their sins to them"...which means that because they are no longer under the law, He has no right., as this is how He created salvation to exist.
It does not exit within the LAW.
It deletes it by Grace.
"the law came by moses", but GRACE AND TRUTH = came by = Jesus The Christ.
Grave created by the blood that saved you, exists without the law having any RIGHT to judge you ever again as a "sinner", and that is because the blood of Christ has been shed to SOLVE this very issue that all non-believers have with the law.
See, a believer is no longer "UNDER", or held accountable" by the law, as they are UNDER GRACE.
This includes the reprobate christian.
This included me and you, if you are born again.

And you say....."but wait, isn't what you are teaching....... a LICENSE to sin"?
Of course not.
There is no sin for a believer, so there is no license, .....that Point #1.
Point #2 is.... there is a spiritual law in the earth, = "sowing and reaping".
And this situation is what develops in a reprobates life, and also a non reprobates life.
So, if you sin as a non-believer, or if you as a Christian are no longer held accountable in eternity for your "works of the flesh", you do not get a free ride down here, as the law of "sowing and reaping" will harvest pain and suffering and sometimes death, as a consequence of living outside the principles of God's requirements.
So there is your "license".
Drive carefully.
See, This spiritual law remains in effect, and affects both the Christian and the non.

Wow!

 

[godsquadgeek]

-j

A reprobate mind is also described as a "seared conscience".
In a believer, if this has happened, then they are still saved, but, over time, they have sinned and sinned and continued and this behavior is like sandpaper on wood, regarding how it affects the conscience.

Here is something that novice christians, or those who tend to reject grace in favor of their own self righteousness as their way to "help Christ out with His cross" by their pov that they informs them that they need to be working those good works to sort of finalize their salvation, as if the blood of Christ is not.... quite.... enough..... for the job and needs their help.
So, what i'll teach now is not going to fit a self righteous do-gooder who is working their way into heaven with the help of the cross as a back up. (just in case).
How do u determine if you are one of those?
Just take the test. The test is simple..... Here it is.....ask yourself....."if i drop dead before i finish reading this post, ..what am i trusting to get me to heaven"...
And if your only answer in your mind is not..."Jesus"...then you are trusting yourself to get yourself to heaven.
Did you pass the test?
If you didnt, ....if things like water baptism, and confessing sins, and some scripture by James, or any of this popped up in your head instead of..."what is all my righteousness, nothing but the blood of JESUS".......then you failed.
"F".

So, here it is..
Once you are saved, this means that God has now actually given you the "gift of righteousness", which recreates you to be as sinless as Christ.
The law has now become abolished, regarding its power to condemn you, or be used against you.
This is why your bible says you are no longer "UNDER IT"....like a slave under a chain.
A believer is now eternally accepted by God, as being righteous, as this is the EFFECT that the Blood Atonement has on you, and its an ETERNAL effect.
Now, some of you, will never understand this, and will never accept it if you could.
Sorry.
Now my point is (regarding this Thread's topic), is that a christian reprobate, is simply someone who has returned to his former wicked lifestyle and has forgotten what God has accomplished in their life. And by doing this, and staying there, backslidden, their carnal "works of the flesh" deeds they commit over time, have the effect of hardening and desensitizing their conscience, and THAT situation is what creates a christian reprobate.
And in an unbeliever, as you generally find in somone who is past 40 and has been "churched" a lot, and has resisted the HSpirt over time as they heard hundreds of "alter calls".....what happens is, that their ability, their sensitivity within their conscience, can no longer be wooed and touched and softened and "drawn" by the Holy Spirit, and that person has a ticket to hell....its been punched.
Yes, there are gazillions of "death bed" conversions, but in general, those tend to be committed not be people who have resisted getting saved during the last 75 years of hearsing alter calls and yawning.
They yawned at the end, but for those first 30 years, they had sweaty palms and were sweating and resisting getting saved.
Finally they dont have to resist anymore, because they dont FEEL THE PULL, or the tug in their heart.
= seared conscience = reprobate mind.

When you Study the 4th chapter of the book of Romans, then you discover that Paul has confirmed that God does not hold a believer accountable in eternity for their sins, with respect to their sonship position.
Why, because, "He who knew no sin was made to be sin", for YOU.
All of this is discovered when you study that "CUP" that Jesus was talking about just before they laid it on Him with that scourging and that tree and those nails and that time He had to endure it, for YOU.
That is how God on a cross took your sin, then died for you.
THat is the atonement.
its a swap.
God takes your sin and Jesus is the sin bearer, and you get the "righteousness of Christ" as your new position in eternity.(by Faith).
THAT is salvation, applied once and forever, and people who trip over OSAS, dont understand this, and many of them never will.
But, i digress, as we have already discussed self righteous types who are busy tripping over Grace on their way to try to help Jesus's shed blood out with their "works".

Paul teaches that "God does not impute their sins to them"...which means that because they are no longer under the law, He has no right., as this is how He created salvation to exist.
It does not exit within the LAW.
It deletes it by Grace.
"the law came by moses", but GRACE AND TRUTH = came by = Jesus The Christ.
Grave created by the blood that saved you, exists without the law having any RIGHT to judge you ever again as a "sinner", and that is because the blood of Christ has been shed to SOLVE this very issue that all non-believers have with the law.
See, a believer is no longer "UNDER", or held accountable" by the law, as they are UNDER GRACE.
This includes the reprobate christian.
This included me and you, if you are born again.

And you say....."but wait, isn't what you are teaching....... a LICENSE to sin"?
Of course not.
There is no sin for a believer, so there is no license, .....that Point #1.
Point #2 is.... there is a spiritual law in the earth, = "sowing and reaping".
And this situation is what develops in a reprobates life, and also a non reprobates life.
So, if you sin as a non-believer, or if you as a Christian are no longer held accountable in eternity for your "works of the flesh", you do not get a free ride down here, as the law of "sowing and reaping" will harvest pain and suffering and sometimes death, as a consequence of living outside the principles of God's requirements.
So there is your "license".
Drive carefully.
See, This spiritual law remains in effect, and affects both the Christian and the non.

What about Judas
wasn't he a reprobate?

 

[godsquadgeek]

I didn't save myself in the first place. Did I know God's name before the womb? Or did God know mine?

You didn't start the contract but you can end it.

 

[Randy]

I’m not sure this answers my question. Romans 9 speaks specifically on Jacob and Essau. So are you saying God saw something in Jacob to love him over Essau?

It would be by grace before they did good or bad.

 

[Randy]

Oh I don't believe you can lose salvation, I believe you can forfeit it when you live in constant sin, to the point where the sin deceives you into not believing in Christ anymore. At that point Christ gives you over to a reprobate mind (romans 1). The sin of greed let Judas be deceived and reprobated him in apostasy. I believe in eternal security for me, because I desire salvation, if some day I decided not to want it anymore, Jesus would not force it on me.

Judas was noted to be a thief. There is nothing in his pattern that suggests true salvation like Zacchaeus. He was chosen so that the scriptures could be fulfilled. But I believe he is now with those who suffer by his own doing.

 

[Randy]

No, mans will is not free. The unregenerate man does not desire or can he understand the things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14. Natural man is in bondage to his sinful nature. So how is he free? As in the case of Pharaoh and the reprobate, they were created for the purpose of God showing His power, wrath, and justice in fitting them for destruction. And for the elect in Christ, His love, kindness and mercy on the vessels of mercy prepared unto glory

Pharaoh was conceited ruthless and without love for man before approached by Moses. Its not surprising about the way he received and reacted to Gods commands. But Pharaoh was not a God and he couldn't even save himself let alone others. He desire for vengeance against the freed Israelites lead to his destruction and the destruction of his armies.
It is also written those who "listen" and "learn" from the Father go to the Son and Jesus will raise us up on the last day that is the will of the Father.
There were reasons given by Jesus about the types of terrain the good seed fell on but one were stated that God willed people not saved. The one who sowed the weeds was the devil and satan is noted for tempting people to do evil and leading the whole world astray.
It was noted about those who hearts were hard like rock so they couldn't accept or believe the good news of the kingdom.

It is written those who seek find. Those who ask receive. Those who knock and the door will be opened. But that takes a sincere faith and desire to know God and receive salvation. Many in this world are consumed with the desire for other things rather than the love of God or to be known by God. They love the things of this world more than God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Judas was noted to be a thief. There is nothing in his pattern that suggests true salvation like Zacchaeus. He was chosen so that the scriptures could be fulfilled. But I believe he is now with those who suffer by his own doing.

I have, also, found no reason to believe he lost his salvation but many, just, scream at the thought of it.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

You didn't start the contract but you can end it.

No I can't. Pages and pages of dialog, and the Bible prove that. Eternal, and "no one" can take them from my hand. Are key words in the Bible and the latter being from Christ himself, that should be something counter arguments such as those presented in this discussion should become familiar with. It helps to realize their misunderstanding does not alter the meaning of, eternal life, and,no one.
God said it. Man doesn't change it because they feel like they can. Those who end their relationship with Christ were never one with Christ. God told us that too.
And who in their right(eous) mind would ever ever ever , knowing the scriptures, and the difference between eternal salvation and eternal damnation, would say, "oh, I think I'll leap from Christ's hand and do a beautiful swan dive for all eternity right into the pit of Hell! "

 

[godsquadgeek]

Judas was noted to be a thief. There is nothing in his pattern that suggests true salvation like Zacchaeus. He was chosen so that the scriptures could be fulfilled. But I believe he is now with those who suffer by his own doing.

I was thinking about Judas. Now pretend to be God ( in a non idolatrous fashion) for a minute. Say you created a perfect group of people strong enough to get the job done but weak enough to be seen as everyday people. Now when Judas was chosen to be a disciple he was a friend. The prophecy in the psalms about betrayal by a friend, means He trusted him. "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."
(Psalms 41:9)

Now again, thinking from the realm of God, why or how rather, could you be betrayed by someone who was never a believer to begin with? Betrayed means that something happened from good to bad. Judas in my opinion was saved, and thus being apostate is the only way to truly betray Christ. IF one never believed, to begin with. Or if Judas was never saved, then the prophesy about trust would be wrong, for Jesus would not have trusted him. After all would you trust someone who you knew ahead of time would betray you with a kiss?