Growth When hermeneutics goes wrong

[Kathi]

Correct Biblical hermeneutics shows us the true meaning and application of Scripture
Hebrews 4:12 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Brother Mike]

uhm god did give satan permission to kill. if he didn't allow that then why does it say and the dragon warred against the saints and OVERCAME them if satan cant kill us , show me that in the bible? God aslo slew the firstborn of man and beast in exodus. not for their sin but of the parents and household that didn't put the blood on the door. a baby cant be considered evil if its too young to know what evil is.

See the difference in our revelation? God, who is love does not send murderous crazed and disobedient angels to kill the children of those that obey and serve him.

Children are not innocent either, they are carnal creatures protected by the covenant the parents have with God. That is scripture. A child is not responsible for their own protection and well being, neither suffer the eternal consequences of not taking up such understanding.
Parents fault.

 

[Deborah13]

Correct Biblical hermeneutics shows us the true meaning and application of Scripture
Hebrews 4:12 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I would use this scripture to describe hermeneutics.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[th1b.taylor]

sometimes we have different interpetations and both claim to be from the Holy Spirit.

Often both are correct. God gives to each man what is needed right then. If both applications, never translations, are not incompatible then both have learned in the manner we are instructed to do, iron sharpening iron. If they cannot meld into compatibility it is possible one is wrong and at the very least there needs to be an agreement to disagree.

 

[Sinthesis]

Hermeneutics: the branch of knowledge that deals with interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts.

Since everyone has the ability to read and interpret scripture for themselves, what happens if the person does it incorrectly? As followers of the word, of course we are to help each other keep on the right track, but what does the Bible say about God's reaction to misguided faith?
What if someone is doing something completely in faith- thinking they are doing exactly what God's word says for them to do, but...they miss the mark? Or they didn't know God's word says to do something, so they don't do it.

An example would be Deuteronomy 22:5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

I interpret that to mean that women shouldn't do what pertains to men (like serving on the front lines in combat) and men shouldn't do what pertains to women (like working in the fashion industry). It also entails them wearing the clothing of the other sex- for example, an army uniform is typically masculine and evening gowns are typically feminine. So doing these things is a no-no. However, what if my interpretation is incorrect? What is God's point of view on well-meaning, but misinterpretation?

Jesus' blood covers over well-meaning misinterpretation.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Yeah...hermeneutics kinda scares me. I think this is one reason I'm consdering Catholicism. They've done all the work for you!

LOL Beware of those who think they have all the answers.

 

[Gary]

Jesus' blood covers over well-meaning misinterpretation.

Even if those well-meaning misinterpretations cause others to stray from the truth?

 

[Sinthesis]

Even if those well-meaning misinterpretations cause others to stray from the truth?

Yes, even then. Only ill-meaning interpretations (those blaspheming the Holy Spirit) are truly damning.

Mar 3:28 ¶ Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 - But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
​

The simple truth is that most of what we get all bent out of shape about concerning truth is superfluous to salvation.

 

[Gary]

Even if those well-meaning misinterpretations cause others to stray from the truth?

Yes, even then. Only ill-meaning interpretations (those blaspheming the Holy Spirit) are truly damning.

Mar 3:28 ¶ Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 - But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
​

The simple truth is that most of what we get all bent out of shape about concerning truth is superfluous to salvation.

How do you reconcile your belief's with those of the Mormon or the Jehovah Witness or the Universalist? Some denominations believe homosexuality is allowed by God.

These people truly believe what they're teaching. Does the Blood of Christ cover their misinterpretations?
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[Brother Mike]

Even if those well-meaning misinterpretations cause others to stray from the truth?

Nobody causes anyone to stray from the truth.

Joh 7:17 kjva If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Lots of folks don't care about the will of God, they think it's something that just might happen someday, who knows? God is not first throught in all they do, God is not first thought when they get paid. God is not first in anything in their life as there can only be one thing that gets first place in your life.

Jesus said, those buy into the doctrines of men. Anyone who will do the will of God, are promised to know right Doctrine.

Right doctrine starts with a heart condtion toward God first. It does not start with being smart enough to understand anything.

He that has ears to hear............... The person responsible for getting the right doctrine is the one hearing the doctrine.

Those that teach their own things to the unstable who don't care about the will of God, or only half do what God says will have their own condemnation to answer for.

So anyone not sold out to God, where God is first place in everything will believe bad doctrine and not know good from bad. It don't matter what they believe, they are not much help to the Kingdom anyway.

How do you reconcile your belief's with those of the Mormon or the Jehovah Witness or the Universalist? Some denominations believe homosexuality is allowed by God.

These people truly believe what they're teaching. Does the Blood of Christ cover their misinterpretations?
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One would have to assume that the Blood of Christ was actually in effect and in power in these places to start with. It's like saying the Blood of Christ covers stores that sell Pornography because they are saved and believers also.............. They are not saved, not believers, and love their own things much like univeralist, Jehovah Witnessess, and Mormons.

Now if one believes we should all speak in tongues, and one does not, because praying in the Spirit is not important due to their lack of being sold out to God and doing only His will. Changing their heart to put God first in everything will correct their thinking. You would be amazed what believers think of first when they get a pay check. It's not Kingdom stuff, its their stuff. Money is a good indication of where a persons heart is.

 

[claret]

I am new here, grace required!
The way the Bible is separated into books gives it structure so it makes sense to me to read or study in a way that lends itself to some structure. I didn't always read the Bible in any structured manner. I would sometimes believe a passage meant something because it was out of context, only to find later how wrong I was.
I thought I was following the Spirit but really I was just reading what I wanted to in the text.
I can see the importance of history, grammar and context today. I do not believe God wants us to stop using reasoning skills given by Him. Perhaps it is when reasoning takes the place of The Holy Spirit that problems occur.
I believe there can be a happy marriage between the two. I am glad for scholars and gifted by God teachers who have done the heavy work. I can take what settles and spit out what doesn't. I can allow The Holy Spirit to discern and pray about it.
I was not raised in the church or taught in seminary, so I have never had to unlearn doctrine or teaching. I have had the freedom to follow where He leads..and of course where He hasn't lead.
If I ask God to show me something and actually trust Him, He is always good to me even if it is not in my timing.

 

[Gary]

Nobody causes anyone to stray from the truth.

3 passages that disagree.

Matthew 15....(NKJV)
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

2 Peter 2....(NKJV)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

James 3....(NKJV)
3 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.



Can you explain why teachers have stricter judgments?
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[Brother Mike]

3 passages that disagree.

Matthew 15....(NKJV)
14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

2 Peter 2....(NKJV)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

James 3....(NKJV)
3 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.



Can you explain why teachers have stricter judgments?
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Did you not read the part where I said the false teachers, instructors, the ones spreading the false doctrine have their reward? I quoted James 3 in my post.

Read my whole Post, it is very, very, very rare I get off scripturally because I don't talk about things not revealed.

What I said was............... If wany man will do the Will of God, then He will know sound doctrine........... Jesus said that. That has to be right.

Why do people follow false teachers? You just gave 3 scriptures at to why.

Why do blind follow blind?
Why do many with itchy ears follow those preaching wrong things?

Who's fault is it when we stand before the Lord to give an account and we preached wrong and bad doctrine we believed? Our fault, or do we get a break because we were not following the will of God and did not Know sound Doctrine as Jesus said?

Once again........... Any Man that will do the will of God, will know if the doctrine is of God, or just man.

Any man not fully sold out to God, wanting to do his will, can and will be mislead by false teachers and bad doctrines.

The problem starts in the heart of the hearer, not the one bringing the bad doctrine.

Now if I told you Jesus was gay, and you believed me............ Then something is wrong with your realationship with God for believing such a stupid thing, and I get my reward for going around saying that.

 

[Gary]

Did you not read the part where I said the false teachers, instructors, the ones spreading the false doctrine have their reward? I quoted James 3 in my post.

Read my whole Post, it is very, very, very rare I get off scripturally because I don't talk about things not revealed.

What I said was............... If wany man will do the Will of God, then He will know sound doctrine........... Jesus said that. That has to be right.

Why do people follow false teachers? You just gave 3 scriptures at to why.

Why do blind follow blind?
Why do many with itchy ears follow those preaching wrong things?

Who's fault is it when we stand before the Lord to give an account and we preached wrong and bad doctrine we believed? Our fault, or do we get a break because we were not following the will of God and did not Know sound Doctrine as Jesus said?

Once again........... Any Man that will do the will of God, will know if the doctrine is of God, or just man.

Any man not fully sold out to God, wanting to do his will, can and will be mislead by false teachers and bad doctrines.

The problem starts in the heart of the hearer, not the one bringing the bad doctrine.

Now if I told you Jesus was gay, and you believed me............ Then something is wrong with your realationship with God for believing such a stupid thing, and I get my reward for going around saying that.

You said this:

Nobody causes anyone to stray from the truth.

And that's not true.

That's all I was commenting on.
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[Brother Mike]

You said this:



And that's not true.

That's all I was commenting on.
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Joh 7:17 amp If any man desires to do His will (God's pleasure), he will know (have the needed illumination to recognize, and can tell for himself) whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking from Myself and of My own accord and on My own authority.

If any man desires to do the Will of God, sold out to God, then He will have........... will have............. will have the ability to know if the teaching is from God or not.

What happens if a man does not care about the will of God, but just shows up to church once in awile? What happens to that man if He hears false doctrine that sounds good to his ears?

Answer that.

 

[Gary]

If any man desires to do the Will of God, sold out to God, then He will have........... will have............. will have the ability to know if the teaching is from God or not.

That's not what Paul says.

2 Corinthians 11....(NKJV)
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

.

 

[jasonc]

See the difference in our revelation? God, who is love does not send murderous crazed and disobedient angels to kill the children of those that obey and serve him.

Children are not innocent either, they are carnal creatures protected by the covenant the parents have with God. That is scripture. A child is not responsible for their own protection and well being, neither suffer the eternal consequences of not taking up such understanding.

so david whom said about his son whom was sick and not even a few years old whould be HELL with him? where is he I shall go. the man that sinned and repented. I said if they KNOW they are sinning they can be held.

what sin did JESUS commit that caused him to die? he was a man and whom appointed him to die. it wasn't man, but GOD. god does slay the righteous at times for his own reasons. moses sinned, yes but when he does allow death to take us its for his reason. for its appointed for ALL men to die, then unto the judgement! we all will die. god made my appointment to die , im not afraid of death. in my death im made WHOLE

 

[Brother Mike]

That's not what Paul says.

2 Corinthians 11....(NKJV)
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

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I did not quote Paul Gary, I quoted Jesus, and Paul preaching the same Word by the Holy Spirit is not going to contradict what Jesus said.
You failed to answer my question though.

Once again, Jesus said, any man that will do the will of God, will be right on in doctrine, those that don't won't be.

The protection is in having a heart to do God's will.......... It's has nothing to do with all the junk being preached out there. If that were the case, you and I would believe ev every single goofy thing we heard, and we don't.

2Co 11:3-4 kjva 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

What Paul said has nothing to do with what I said or Jesus said.............. Paul said you have done well by not accepting goofy doctrines. They are in the will and plan of God, so they can't be decieved, that is all Paul is saying. Go read it in the Greek if you have to or find different translations and read it again.

2Co 2:10-11 kjva 10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Try to answer this Question........... What happens if we hold onto unforgiveness?

so david whom said about his son whom was sick and not even a few years old whould be HELL with him? where is he I shall go. the man that sinned and repented. I said if they KNOW they are sinning they can be held.

what sin did JESUS commit that caused him to die? he was a man and whom appointed him to die. it wasn't man, but GOD. god does slay the righteous at times for his own reasons. moses sinned, yes but when he does allow death to take us its for his reason. for its appointed for ALL men to die, then unto the judgement! we all will die. god made my appointment to die , im not afraid of death. in my death im made WHOLE

Jason, are you even reading my post..... What did I say about kids?

You also need to re-read man is appointed to die once then judgement...... Also in Ecc that there is a time to die, a time to live.

Nothing in there means God has a special day you have to die, it's not even mentioned in those verses. Don't add stuff.

If you like, I can give you all the verses that will extend your life, if your concerned about having some predestion of a time to die.........

Stay away from the Horror flicks Brother, I know final destinitation was a great movie and showed how the ungodly handle reliegious nonesense about a appointed time to die. Great movie, a bit graphic. Showed perfectly how the unsaved react to such things...

Your not unsaved, and the Movie was Fiction.............. I have those scriptures that will extend your life if you need them.

 

[jasonc]

I did not quote Paul Gary, I quoted Jesus, and Paul preaching the same Word by the Holy Spirit is not going to contradict what Jesus said.
You failed to answer my question though.

Once again, Jesus said, any man that will do the will of God, will be right on in doctrine, those that don't won't be.

The protection is in having a heart to do God's will.......... It's has nothing to do with all the junk being preached out there. If that were the case, you and I would believe ev every single goofy thing we heard, and we don't.

2Co 11:3-4 kjva 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

What Paul said has nothing to do with what I said or Jesus said.............. Paul said you have done well by not accepting goofy doctrines. They are in the will and plan of God, so they can't be decieved, that is all Paul is saying. Go read it in the Greek if you have to or find different translations and read it again.

2Co 2:10-11 kjva 10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Try to answer this Question........... What happens if we hold onto unforgiveness?



Jason, are you even reading my post..... What did I say about kids?

You also need to re-read man is appointed to die once then judgement...... Also in Ecc that there is a time to die, a time to live.

Nothing in there means God has a special day you have to die, it's not even mentioned in those verses. Don't add stuff.

If you like, I can give you all the verses that will extend your life, if your concerned about having some predestion of a time to die.........

Stay away from the Horror flicks Brother, I know final destinitation was a great movie and showed how the ungodly handle reliegious nonesense about a appointed time to die. Great movie, a bit graphic. Showed perfectly how the unsaved react to such things...

Your not unsaved, and the Movie was Fiction.............. I have those scriptures that will extend your life if you need them.

I don't watch horror flick, I haven't watch much of those. I mentioned the flood, the judgement of the Egyptians where by babies were slain.. what did the baby do that he was slain by the LORD himself? you said he wasn't innocent, and yet you said a child couldn't be held for the actions of another. yet the angel of the Lord did take them. so how can that be?

so how does baby, one day, one year, and up to the time they still don't know what is sin be judged? you said god doesn't slay his own. funny. moses died. he sinned, we all sin. no man will ever die sinless. yet god has ordained a meeting. by your argument if we obey, we simply wont die!

 

[Gary]

2Co 11:3-4 kjva 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

What Paul said has nothing to do with what I said or Jesus said.............. Paul said you have done well by not accepting goofy doctrines. They are in the will and plan of God, so they can't be decieved, that is all Paul is saying.

He's saying the exact opposite actually.

What do you believe "ye might well bear with him" means?

To me it sounds like Paul is afraid they might, if they're not careful, put up with and accept another Jesus, another spirit, another gospel. I don't see how that can be interpreted any other way.
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