'When is the apocalypse?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is it a week from Tuesday?
Someone told me it was a week from Tuesday.
How do I get ready for it?
Should I sell my house and all my goods?
Should I go up on the nearest mountain and wait?
Come on, this is a Christian forum.
Some one should know what to tell me.

 

[Tessa]

Just live every day as if it is your last. God hasn't told me when the Lord is coming back. I don't really study for it either. We see the signs but who knows????
I just love Him like you do too.

 

[for_his_glory]

Apocalypse, which the word is not found in scripture, comes from the Greek word apocalupsis which means the last book of the NT being Revelations. It's a book of prophetic disclosure in it's literal and symbolic unveiling of end of days events leading up to the return of Christ. Much like the outline in Matthew chapter 24.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Daniel chapters 7-9; Isaiah chapters 24-27; Ezekiel chapters 37-41 and Zechariah chapters 9-12 are just a few of the other apocalyptic books as what has been revealed to the Prophets of these future events.

We are not to fear that which must come first before Jesus returns, but to be prepared to be His Bride when He does return as no one knows the day or the hour, Matthew 24:36-39, but are given a sign in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Jim Parker]

Is it a week from Tuesday?
Someone told me it was a week from Tuesday.
How do I get ready for it?
Should I sell my house and all my goods?
Should I go up on the nearest mountain and wait?
Come on, this is a Christian forum.
Some one should know what to tell me.

Do what God has called you to do.
Do it as if your eternal life depended on doing it.
Don't worry about the rest of the "stuff."

 

[Dispair]

The Kingdom of heaven is not of this world, and to expect 'the end' to change our world and make it a better place is to expect what the Scribes, Pharisees and religious leaders expected when they killed our Lord the first time.

Like what was said to Peter when the Lord called him Satan: We have the things of men in mind and not the things of God.
And because of this when we look for the end we want to see the moon turn to blood and the sun darken, and stars fall from heaven. Assuredly the moon is already turning to blood and the sun darkening. The stars are falling to the earth and the sign of the Son of man is already visible in heaven for everyone to see.

We look but we don't see, we listen but we don't hear what the spirit says. We make ourselves subject to the second death.

Would we kill him a second time to confirm the desire of the flesh? Unfortunately we are doing just that.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Kingdom of heaven is not of this world, and to expect 'the end' to change our world and make it a better place is to expect what the Scribes, Pharisees and religious leaders expected when they killed our Lord the first time.

Like what was said to Peter when the Lord called him Satan: We have the things of men in mind and not the things of God.
And because of this when we look for the end we want to see the moon turn to blood and the sun darken, and stars fall from heaven. Assuredly the moon is already turning to blood and the sun darkening. The stars are falling to the earth and the sign of the Son of man is already visible in heaven for everyone to see.

We look but we don't see, we listen but we don't hear what the spirit says. We make ourselves subject to the second death.

Would we kill him a second time to confirm the desire of the flesh? Unfortunately we are doing just that.

The kingdom of God is not seen with the eye nor is their direction to it like a road map as the kingdom of God is within those who are His own. There is nothing of this present earth and heaven that will be left standing when Christ returns. Until Christ returns in God's timing we must keep our self in Him and continue in the good works Jesus started, Matthew 25:31-40.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Kingdom of heaven is not of this world, and to expect 'the end' to change our world and make it a better place is to expect what the Scribes, Pharisees and religious leaders expected when they killed our Lord the first time.

Revelations tells us that everything will be made new.

Rev 21:1-5a Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

iakov the fool

 

[Randy]

Is it a week from Tuesday?
Someone told me it was a week from Tuesday.
How do I get ready for it?
Should I sell my house and all my goods?
Should I go up on the nearest mountain and wait?
Come on, this is a Christian forum.
Some one should know what to tell me.

No one can give you that day or hour as the Father has keep that information to Himself. In regard to signs I would state Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. I do not hold to a pretrib rapture.
Randy

 

[Dispair]

iakov the fool[/QUOTE]

The kingdom of God is not seen with the eye nor is their direction to it like a road map as the kingdom of God is within those who are His own. There is nothing of this present earth and heaven that will be left standing when Christ returns. Until Christ returns in God's timing we must keep our self in Him and continue in the good works Jesus started, Matthew 25:31-40.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelations tells us that everything will be made new.

Rev 21:1-5a Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

iakov the fool

Our earth and heaven(space or the air) and the sea will remain forever or however long it can survive natural phenomena and entropy.

The earth(our foundation of understanding), heaven(spiritual truth) and the sea(those lost in confusion) will definitely change or be renewed or totally disappear.

Do you feel that when John was under the power of Holy spirit and read or contemplated the words of Genesis, and used the same symbols in his writings in Revelation he had the literal in mind? - Hear what the spirit says!

The old physical earth, heaven and sea will still exist after the new Jerusalem arrives: Revelation 22:14Blessed are those who wash their robes,a so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

The kingdom is no part of this world. Hoping for the physical earth and heaven to be renewed is the thinking of man, not God. Does the flesh still have such a hold on us after all this time and effort? I fear the point of the Lords sacrifice is lost on us.

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

 

[Jim Parker]

Do you feel that when John was under the power of Holy spirit and read or contemplated the words of Genesis, and used the same symbols in his writings in Revelation he had the literal in mind?

Do I "feel"...?
I do not use my emotions to understand scripture.
I THINK that the words " I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. " should be taken literally. I think that was what was revealed to him.

Hoping for the physical earth and heaven to be renewed is the thinking of man, not God.

It's what the scripture says.

Does the flesh still have such a hold on us after all this time and effort? I fear the point of the Lords sacrifice is lost on us.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Please clarify if you are able.
What was the "point of the Lord's sacrifice" in your opinion?

 

[for_his_glory]

iakov the fool

Dispair you said: Our earth and heaven(space or the air) and the sea will remain forever or however long it can survive natural phenomena and entropy.

The earth(our foundation of understanding), heaven(spiritual truth) and the sea(those lost in confusion) will definitely change or be renewed or totally disappear.

Do you feel that when John was under the power of Holy spirit and read or contemplated the words of Genesis, and used the same symbols in his writings in Revelation he had the literal in mind? - Hear what the spirit says!

The old physical earth, heaven and sea will still exist after the new Jerusalem arrives: Revelation 22:14Blessed are those who wash their robes,a so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

The kingdom is no part of this world. Hoping for the physical earth and heaven to be renewed is the thinking of man, not God. Does the flesh still have such a hold on us after all this time and effort? I fear the point of the Lords sacrifice is lost on us.

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.[/QUOTE]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What is your take on these scriptures that seem to dispute what you are saying. There is nothing on this earth that will remain as all things will become new again.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The kingdom of God is something we can not physically see as the kingdom of God dwells in those who are Spiritually born again that are in Christ and He in them, John 3:5-7; 12:44-50; John 15:5.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well, at least Tuesday went and passed us.
My wife is my barometer.
She's still here.
So much for a pre-trib rapture.
Next is a mid-trib rapture.
Is the apocalypse started yet?
I want to be able to count the days.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Well, at least Tuesday went and passed us.

Why did you think it would be Tuesday?

My wife is my barometer.

My cat is my barometer. In the days of Noah, the animals knew before most of the humans.

She's still here.

Did you think she would leave without you?

So much for a pre-trib rapture.

Are we in the tribulation now?

Next is a mid-trib rapture.

When do we hit the mid point?

Is the apocalypse started yet?

Yes.

I want to be able to count the days.

No you don't.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Here we sit today October 24, 2018 and have seen many things come to pass and know that many things must yet come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Between Matthew 24:3-28 are those things Jesus gave us we to watch for as now as it was before is the time to be prepared to be His Bride and He our Groom as from vs. 29-31 is when Christ returns as no one knows the day nor the hour, but God alone.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Dispair]

Do I "feel"...?
I do not use my emotions to understand scripture.
I THINK that the words " I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. " should be taken literally. I think that was what was revealed to him.

It's what the scripture says.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Please clarify if you are able.
What was the "point of the Lord's sacrifice" in your opinion?

If the aim of the kingdom of God was to restore the earth our Lord would have stayed and fought mightily for its restoration. But he denied the wishes of the flesh and nailed it to the cross, showing us the view we should have of this world and its desires - and thus freeing us from sin.

 

[Dispair]

Dispair you said: Our earth and heaven(space or the air) and the sea will remain forever or however long it can survive natural phenomena and entropy.

The earth(our foundation of understanding), heaven(spiritual truth) and the sea(those lost in confusion) will definitely change or be renewed or totally disappear.

Do you feel that when John was under the power of Holy spirit and read or contemplated the words of Genesis, and used the same symbols in his writings in Revelation he had the literal in mind? - Hear what the spirit says!

The old physical earth, heaven and sea will still exist after the new Jerusalem arrives: Revelation 22:14Blessed are those who wash their robes,a so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

The kingdom is no part of this world. Hoping for the physical earth and heaven to be renewed is the thinking of man, not God. Does the flesh still have such a hold on us after all this time and effort? I fear the point of the Lords sacrifice is lost on us.

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What is your take on these scriptures that seem to dispute what you are saying. There is nothing on this earth that will remain as all things will become new again.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The kingdom of God is something we can not physically see as the kingdom of God dwells in those who are Spiritually born again that are in Christ and He in them, John 3:5-7; 12:44-50; John 15:5.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.[/QUOTE]

Lets take the sea mentioned in Rev21:1 for example to explain how I see all these: For me the sea symbolizes mankind in a state where its overwhelmed with information (true and false); being pushed hence and forth by the waves.
This is why our Lord made his apostles fishers of men - to save them from the state of misinformation in the sea.
This is why the Hebrews passes on dry land through the red sea guided by God, but the Egyptians were overcome by the waves and waters.
This is the reason for the walking on water miracle - to show that our Lord brings information that calms the sea of confusion.
This is the symbolic meaning of our immersion in baptism - showing we overcome the sea of confusion and rise up in truth.
This is the reason why the world was covered in flood waters in Noah's day - to show that those that persue the spirit or are drawn by it can survive the waters but the others are drowned.
This is why the Beast of revelation rises up out of the sea - the sea of information we find ourselves in inclines us to embrace our own will of flesh, forming worldly governments and giving rise to the beast.
This is why the Dragon spews a flood of water (misinformation or sea) after pure worship (the woman) in revelation 12:15.
This is why the Earth (our foundation of understanding) was cover in water during the creation story. But God caused the dry earth to appear.

So for me when I read that there will be no more sea, I realize that there would no longer be a situation where we are confused by overwhelming information and washed hence and forth. There will be a new Heaven, a purified spiritual truth that was rid of the devil by the blood of our Lord. There will be a new earth, a restored foundation of understanding for mankind. This is the creation story of Genesis, and this is the restoration story of Revelation and the meaning of the Crucifixion for me.

Parables and symbolism make the Bible a sword that kills the flesh and its material desires - and leaves the spirit to re-enter the paradise of Eden. Genesis 3:23Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24So He drove out the man and stationed cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden, with a whirling sword of flame to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[Randy]

Well, at least Tuesday went and passed us.
My wife is my barometer.
She's still here.
So much for a pre-trib rapture.
Next is a mid-trib rapture.
Is the apocalypse started yet?
I want to be able to count the days.

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

 

[for_his_glory]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What is your take on these scriptures that seem to dispute what you are saying. There is nothing on this earth that will remain as all things will become new again.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The kingdom of God is something we can not physically see as the kingdom of God dwells in those who are Spiritually born again that are in Christ and He in them, John 3:5-7; 12:44-50; John 15:5.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Lets take the sea mentioned in Rev21:1 for example to explain how I see all these: For me the sea symbolizes mankind in a state where its overwhelmed with information (true and false); being pushed hence and forth by the waves.
This is why our Lord made his apostles fishers of men - to save them from the state of misinformation in the sea.
This is why the Hebrews passes on dry land through the red sea guided by God, but the Egyptians were overcome by the waves and waters.
This is the reason for the walking on water miracle - to show that our Lord brings information that calms the sea of confusion.
This is the symbolic meaning of our immersion in baptism - showing we overcome the sea of confusion and rise up in truth.
This is the reason why the world was covered in flood waters in Noah's day - to show that those that persue the spirit or are drawn by it can survive the waters but the others are drowned.
This is why the Beast of revelation rises up out of the sea - the sea of information we find ourselves in inclines us to embrace our own will of flesh, forming worldly governments and giving rise to the beast.
This is why the Dragon spews a flood of water (misinformation or sea) after pure worship (the woman) in revelation 12:15.
This is why the Earth (our foundation of understanding) was cover in water during the creation story. But God caused the dry earth to appear.

So for me when I read that there will be no more sea, I realize that there would no longer be a situation where we are confused by overwhelming information and washed hence and forth. There will be a new Heaven, a purified spiritual truth that was rid of the devil by the blood of our Lord. There will be a new earth, a restored foundation of understanding for mankind. This is the creation story of Genesis, and this is the restoration story of Revelation and the meaning of the Crucifixion for me.

Parables and symbolism make the Bible a sword that kills the flesh and its material desires - and leaves the spirit to re-enter the paradise of Eden. Genesis 3:23Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24So He drove out the man and stationed cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden, with a whirling sword of flame to guard the way to the tree of life. [/QUOTE]

You speak of the symbolic as within the symbolism in Revelation. I am speaking of the literal earth and sea that God in the beginning created, even before He created man and set him in the garden. Isaiah 24; Matthew 24:35; 2 Peter 3:10 and Rev 21:1 are speaking about the literal as God will destroy everything on it, but yet the earth remains in ruins as when God is finished with all His judgments He will renew the earth back to its former state as in the Garden of Eden as God ushers down a New Jerusalem which is His kingdom here on earth as for now the kingdom of God dwells in those who are His own.

 

[Jim Parker]

If the aim of the kingdom of God was to restore the earth our Lord would have stayed and fought mightily for its restoration. But he denied the wishes of the flesh and nailed it to the cross, showing us the view we should have of this world and its desires - and thus freeing us from sin.

I agree with you; Jesus did not come the first time to establish the kingdom of God on earth. The Lord came the first time for one purpose: to save mankind from the effect (wages) of sin, which is death. He destroyed the power of death and all of mankind will be raised when He comes again.

However: (here comes my disagreement) at Mathew 28:18 He said “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." That means; at that time, Jesus, having all authority in heaven and on earth, began to rule as king in heaven and earth.

The Church (world-wide congregation of believers) is the real presence of Jesus' kingdom on earth right now. It is the eschatological kingdom breaking into the kingdom of darkness so that we may be the "light of the world." ( Mat 5:14)

When Jesus returns, then we will see that “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (Rev 11:15)

And then:
Rev 21:1-5a
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

And, as you pointed out:
Rev 22:15 "...outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

But they may be the same people who are identified at Rev 21:8 “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

So it appears to me.

 

[Dispair]

Lets take the sea mentioned in Rev21:1 for example to explain how I see all these: For me the sea symbolizes mankind in a state where its overwhelmed with information (true and false); being pushed hence and forth by the waves.
This is why our Lord made his apostles fishers of men - to save them from the state of misinformation in the sea.
This is why the Hebrews passes on dry land through the red sea guided by God, but the Egyptians were overcome by the waves and waters.
This is the reason for the walking on water miracle - to show that our Lord brings information that calms the sea of confusion.
This is the symbolic meaning of our immersion in baptism - showing we overcome the sea of confusion and rise up in truth.
This is the reason why the world was covered in flood waters in Noah's day - to show that those that persue the spirit or are drawn by it can survive the waters but the others are drowned.
This is why the Beast of revelation rises up out of the sea - the sea of information we find ourselves in inclines us to embrace our own will of flesh, forming worldly governments and giving rise to the beast.
This is why the Dragon spews a flood of water (misinformation or sea) after pure worship (the woman) in revelation 12:15.
This is why the Earth (our foundation of understanding) was cover in water during the creation story. But God caused the dry earth to appear.

So for me when I read that there will be no more sea, I realize that there would no longer be a situation where we are confused by overwhelming information and washed hence and forth. There will be a new Heaven, a purified spiritual truth that was rid of the devil by the blood of our Lord. There will be a new earth, a restored foundation of understanding for mankind. This is the creation story of Genesis, and this is the restoration story of Revelation and the meaning of the Crucifixion for me.

Parables and symbolism make the Bible a sword that kills the flesh and its material desires - and leaves the spirit to re-enter the paradise of Eden. Genesis 3:23Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24So He drove out the man and stationed cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden, with a whirling sword of flame to guard the way to the tree of life.

You speak of the symbolic as within the symbolism in Revelation. I am speaking of the literal earth and sea that God in the beginning created, even before He created man and set him in the garden. Isaiah 24; Matthew 24:35; 2 Peter 3:10 and Rev 21:1 are speaking about the literal as God will destroy everything on it, but yet the earth remains in ruins as when God is finished with all His judgments He will renew the earth back to its former state as in the Garden of Eden as God ushers down a New Jerusalem which is His kingdom here on earth as for now the kingdom of God dwells in those who are His own.[/QUOTE]

When I read Genesis i don't see a literal creation story, I see the origin of the fight in each one of our minds between spirit and flesh. And I have confidence in this due to the use of the same symbols in Revelation. Revelation calls the dragon the original serpent for example. All the actors are present: The woman, serpent, sun, moon and stars etc.

God is a spirit and those that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Why do we cling to the literal? When Stephen saw heaven opened and the son of man at the right hand of God did he literally see this? No, or the others would have seen it as well. I wish to see with those same eyes.

I guess the irrelevance of the physical world in my view is not for everyone and may not be true for them, but it is true for me and where the Spirit has led me.