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When it's time to realize you're dealing with a lying spirit?

Would saying "It is my opinion" that this man is this and that and people should be very careful/leery of him and his doctrine? Would that be acceptable? Technically speaking, is that still "judgment" or not?
I don't think it is alright, because not everything they teach is wrong and they are not teaching others to hate the Lord. They are not teaching that Jesus is not Savior and Lord. The Lord will deal with them in the way He determines.
My opinion of some other person counts for rubbish, to the Lord. So why would I need to mention them by name? Now if someone comes to me and asks me what I think of Joe, that is different. I can say I don't agree with this or that teaching of his. But if I do, I need to be able to back that up with scripture, not just my opinions. That way I am not judging him as a person in anyway. I have given them scripture that they can read, pray about, and make their own decision with the leading of the Lord.
When the Lord says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, this is one situation where, at least for me, God showed me what that verse meant.
 
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Judge not, and you shall not get Judged. It's real simple, no fine lines here. If you want judged, then go right ahead and rip apart everyone that does not do what YOU think they should be doing.

A completely unfair comment. I don't do that Mike and you should know that from my posts. It's not what *I* think they should be doing, but if it helps your cause to twist my comments and judge me for something I haven't even done, so be it. It's starting to look like a sour grapes situation and when attitude seems to take over on this board, I usually back out because we just won't get anywhere. I think you are just angry because I happen to speak out against someone you like, but I doubt if I'll slow down any at all.

How bout this....there are certain preaches that have never been proven to have healed any one, matter of fact they have been exposed to be fakes in that area. They take the money from the poor and desperate and all they have to show for it are broken promises. Some think that if that happens (I won't name any names) that those poor/desperate people deserve it if they aren't bright enough to see through it but, I happen to disagree and feel I would deserve a lot worse if I didn't speak out about them. These people are often there to put on a show, eye candy, and not food for the soul. They rely on style, dramatics, twisting of scripture, among other things to get what they want from the unaware that they rob. They are the lowest of the low in my view, they sell God and make an unbelievably good living off him because sincere people under their spell love that God that they tell just enough truth about to sway those who aren't educated on their ways.

In the end, the good Lord will judge these people and my saying they do what they do is no different than to say a cow produces milk, I'm not judging the cow, it's just a general fact. People can judge for themselves if what they do is wrong or not but sometimes it's as obvious as black and white so why pretend it's not there?
 
There are false teachers.tonight on fox news.
that said you better be in the right spirit when you reveal those and be sure
 
I don't think it is alright, because not everything they teach is wrong and they are not teaching others to hate the Lord. They are not teaching that Jesus is not Savior and Lord. The Lord will deal with them in the way He determines.

Deb, you know even Satan uses just enough truth to make his scam work, they have to or they couldn't go after Christians. I don't expose them for the good they do but often the good they appear to do is to mask the bad they ARE doing.
 
Thing is, we are told not to judge someone else servant, and what we judge, Jesus said it's measured back to us. I take that very seriously, and I don't need to set out and expose anyone. My not agreeing with them, does not make me the one to set them out and expose them.

We have to ask how we would want to be treated. Once we get perfect knowledge, and become like Jesus, then we can expose away. Otherwise, where I miss it, am wrong, I want grace to help me see truth and would rather people pray for me, and not make me look bad.

A righteous judge, has authority to judge and change something with authority. Employee's under us are certainly people we have a right to judge and fire or compliment. Those we have no authority, then judgement is just without power, and makes us a unrighteous judge. It's just talking and speaking evil of those we are not Lord over.

We can decided for our own selves, if we need to listen or not listen. It's a whole other matter when we disgrace someone, and not have perfect knowledge of all things ourselves. This, I avoid.

be blessed.
We do decide for ourselves. But we can still defend the Word and truth. Defending the word and its truth is not an attack or judgment on the man. We can defend the truth and it may help someone who is innocent and is falling for untruths.


Your bike story is a perfect example.

Thou shalt not steal. and we have laws in the land that say it is wrong. We turn the robber in and protect the other innocent people who have left their bikes out.
 
said, "Lord, I forgive that kid, and I am sowing that bike into his life. I ask you not to hold anything against him."

So, I just walked to work the rest of that week. The next week I get a call from someone to come to the Salvation Arm thrift shop. I knew the guy, so I went to see him and he had a 15 speed someone had sold to him, new condition and valued over 500.00. He told me the Lord had put me in his heart and that He was suppose to give that bike to me.

Awesome testimony Brother.

You are always getting blessed like that by walking in faith.

Blessings to Brother Mike.


JLB
 
Serious question here, folks.

I know we're all busy discerning doctrines and sorting things out as we talk about and debate Christian doctrine. But when is it time to realize you're dealing with a lying spirit in someone? Are we to consider them a brother/sister if they are entertaining a lying spirit?

Now I know Christianity is not about what you know, but who you are--that is, your character. The environment where the lying spirit seems to find a home is where there is pride and arrogance in a person. It is there that I see doctrine becoming a matter of character, and thus, a matter of what we're really dealing with.

What do you think?
I think. If you are serious. I would be considered a lying spirit.

My Christianity is in who and what I know. Him and His doctrines.
Not in my character, but His character.

Since when is Christianity in OUR character?
 
A completely unfair comment. I don't do that Mike and you should know that from my posts. It's not what *I* think they should be doing, but if it helps your cause to twist my comments and judge me for something I haven't even done, so be it. It's starting to look like a sour grapes situation and when attitude seems to take over on this board, I usually back out because we just won't get anywhere. I think you are just angry because I happen to speak out against someone you like, but I doubt if I'll slow down any at all.

It is a fair comment. You don't judge, Jesus said you won't be judged. You talk bad about people, you have to receive the same. That is not unfair, that is how it works.

Is the Lord slack in judging? Is that the issue, God just takes to darn long? I can give a list of ministers that started off good, got in error and have lost their lives early. I don't like to see that, but the Lord will judge, and Satan will take them out.

If you speak bad about someone, do you have any authority to change it, and back up what you judged? If you don't, your in trouble.
A right judge can carry out what they have said. If certain ministers where under me, I'd shut them down in a heart beat.

What about all these people we have to warn?
Warn them from what? We don't know the heart, some folks preach things that they really believe, but are completely confused about. If their heart is right, How they wrong with the Lord?
Who gets deceived and stays deceived? Jesus told us, and you or I can't prevent them from getting deceived. It's a heart issue.

Joh_7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

You know how many believers there are that won't submit to God? If I said millions, I would not be joking. If God says stay, they go, if God sends them there, they get offended and leave of the offense. If God said move, they wait so their kids can finish school, and they can get a good price on their house, never getting around to going where God said. People pack up and leave their church, because of some Job promotion, never asking the Lord. It's rampant.

These are the folks that are buying into bad doctrine. The Lord can ask me to do anything, and I'll pack and move in a second, give all my bill money, whatever he asks, I do.

People have all these marriage issue, and you ask them if the Lord said marry that person, they just look at you with a dumb look on their face.. Ask God? Never thought of that. Really?

The problem is not the false teachers who are so good they almost could deceive the elect of God. In Corinthians Paul had concerns of them getting deceived, but they had it handled. Galatians, not so much.

Who decides who is good or bad?

I like Brother Copeland, you don't. Who is right? Neither one of us feel that we are wrong, but I find nothing wrong with him. I have listened to him long enough to understand what He teaches. He has helped more people than any Minister I know, gave our church a few million to help us.

I am not a big Benny Hinn fan. Unlike Copeland, I can point to lots of things. Brother Copeland has never broke his Word though, to anyone. He says it, that's it.

I am not in agreement with everything Brother Copeland teaches. Through the years He's changed some things, getting more light. In the past, I was not a fan that Words are containers of power. I understand words are very important, but That is not exactly how it works.

Brother Copeland has a foreknowledge Doctrine I don't care for. Most Pentecostal folks do though. It's just how it is. Brother Copeland says Jesus, the 2nd Person in the Godhead. That irritates me also. But so what.

Healing:

The Healing thing gets me upset also. I have laid hands on the sick, they have recovered, been used by God in Miracles, and seen some amazing things through the years. I hate when someone makes it a false thing. It gets me upset because there is a real, the problem is that folks want it ALL the time to draw people in. So the start making stuff up, to get people in faith they say.. yea right.

Worked for a Pastor that use to stand up before I taught say over and over. Holy Spirit Come, Holy Spirit Come, Let there be Miracles.
I am thinking where did the Holy Spirit run off to? He was trying to force these miracle services to help the people at first, but it changed to him wanting to be recognized.

I had to endure this before I spoke for a time. Miracles come by hearing of faith, and hearing of faith from the Word. It's the Lord the performs he Word with signs following. Nothing I can do to speed up that process, if there be a process at all.

I get what your saying, but confused people are normally those not sold out to God. It ends in people wanting to be more in love with their doctrine, than love with people and Jesus. We have lots of those folks running around the forum. People that did not do something the Lord said, they know it but moved on to other things convincing themselves it was God. Baalam did that, kept asking until he heard go with them. He started to hear what he wanted to hear, but that was not exactly what the Lord said. It cost him his life in the end.

Best thing, smile, and don't put others down. Hope the best for everyone, one day we might need the same.

blessings.
 
Though, I wouldn't say most doctrines are so complex as that. End times is probably the most difficult-to-decipher stuff in the Bible.

End times really isn't so difficult to decipher. It only becomes that what when we try to make the scripture a fortune teller for our future. It is not. When you leave off from the doctrines of men and seek after the knowledge of Christ, then you begin to find that much of the prophecy has been fulfilled in Christ, because the prophesies pertained to coming of Christ, His death and resurrection, and the work that He shall perform in us by His Holy Spirit. Prophecy is only difficult when we try to make it about ourselves.

Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven. Seek out the knowledge of Christ in all the scriptures; and seek after Christ alone. Return to your first love, and He shall make Himself known.
 
We do decide for ourselves. But we can still defend the Word and truth. Defending the word and its truth is not an attack or judgment on the man. We can defend the truth and it may help someone who is innocent and is falling for untruths.


Your bike story is a perfect example.

Thou shalt not steal. and we have laws in the land that say it is wrong. We turn the robber in and protect the other innocent people who have left their bikes out.

We do have natural laws, but we ought to understand and operate in higher laws. God said he would repay, and I'll take that law, give the kid my bike, and be happy.

it is also true you can talk about the evils of saying we are little gods all day long without running someones name through the mud.
 
Who is the lying spirit? Or better said what is the message of the lying spirit?

Who was the lying spirit from the beginning? Is it not the serpent who was in the garden? And what was spirit of that message?

Take, eat, for it is a tree to be desired, one that shall make you wise, for in the day you eat thereof your eyes shall be open and you shall be as gods knowing good and evil. The same lying spirit whispers into your ears, take, read the book, for it is a book that shall make you wise. For by its knowledge you shall become the son of god, judging between good and evil.
 
Deb, you know even Satan uses just enough truth to make his scam work, they have to or they couldn't go after Christians. I don't expose them for the good they do but often the good they appear to do is to mask the bad they ARE doing.
Yes there is deception sometimes.
 
Is the Lord slack in judging? Is that the issue, God just takes to darn long? I can give a list of ministers that started off good, got in error and have lost their lives early. I don't like to see that, but the Lord will judge, and Satan will take them out.

No, has absolutely nothing to do with it. I know God will take care of these people in his own good time, here and now if he see's fit or he may wait till the next life if he sees fit, olr a little of both. See, you are now putting words in my mouth so, no harm intended but after the first 2 paragraphs, I figured I'd best just stop reading so I'm not tempted to answer further and here is why:

It is a fair comment. You don't judge, Jesus said you won't be judged. You talk bad about people, you have to receive the same. That is not unfair, that is how it works.

You didn't listen or comment what I said there, Mike. Your attitude, the one I mentioned, blocked it out.

No offense intended but this it the reason our correspondence will be a waste of time, at least here and now.
 
My opinion of some other person counts for rubbish, to the Lord. So why would I need to mention them by name?

To warn others. I'm not kidding when I say some are hypnotized by these people and we'd be lucky if a good slap in the face would wake them, often even that won't do it.

I don't think it is alright, because not everything they teach is wrong and they are not teaching others to hate the Lord. They are not teaching that Jesus is not Savior and Lord. The Lord will deal with them in the way He determines.

I've heard a lot of that over the last several years and I have to be suspect of it's origin. Not sure it originated on TBN, but that, if I'm not mistaken, was the first time I heard it in defense of some of the characters Crouch allowed air time on the show.

To me, and again, JMO but I don't care how much truth they teach, if they teach Jesus is Lord or whatever, If they are like "some" preachers I know, no matter what truth they teach along with the bull (can I say bull?) :), they do much more harm than good and I don't think they belong behind any pulpit.

Personally, if it were left up to someone as small minded as myself, I'd pinch their heads off and send them to the next realm to wait it out. But the world is full of temptation and I think there is a purpose behind having bad people here as God wants to see who we really are, and does so by seeing how we react to them or any bad for that matter. Do we follow the promise of money? dramatics? things we can see and hear? lies that astound us? or do we follow them humble truth?

And besides all that, fortunately for them, it's not up to me.
 
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Personally, if it were left up to someone as small minded as myself, I'd pinch their heads off and send them to the next realm to wait it out.
:lol
Then it's a good thing for them, right now, that it's not up to you. Kenny, there are some types of people, no one in particular, that I feel the same way about and I get really angry at what those people do. There are some, that it wouldn't bother me one bit if they were locked up in the darkest hole of a prison cell and they never see the light of day again. :helmet
And both Jesus and Stephen as he was being stoned, said forgive them, Lord. I have a long way to go.:neutral
 
:thumbsup
Who is the lying spirit? Or better said what is the message of the lying spirit?

Who was the lying spirit from the beginning? Is it not the serpent who was in the garden? And what was spirit of that message?

Take, eat, for it is a tree to be desired, one that shall make you wise, for in the day you eat thereof your eyes shall be open and you shall be as gods knowing good and evil. The same lying spirit whispers into your ears, take, read the book, for it is a book that shall make you wise. For by its knowledge you shall become the son of god, judging between good and evil.

:salute:thumbsup:amen
 
:lol
Then it's a good thing for them, right now, that it's not up to you.

lol, a very good thing. Leaving me in full charge of anything in that area is liable to cause problems so, don't think I have to worry about it.

Kenny, there are some types of people, no one in particular, that I feel the same way about and I get really angry at what those people do. There are some, that it wouldn't bother me one bit if they were locked up in the darkest hole of a prison cell and they never see the light of day again. :helmet
And both Jesus and Stephen as he was being stoned, said forgive them, Lord. I have a long way to go.:neutral

I know you feel that way from some of your other posts, Deb, as many here do. And not only do I completely get where you are coming from, yours and others thoughts on the matter have not been ignored by me, I'm still trying to work it out. There are after all some pretty sneaky ways to say what one wants to say without naming names and if I have to work on that, I will.

And I guess I should apologize to Jethro for taking this off topic, however I do wish he'd a chimed in on this.

I never was sure what you meant by "lying spirit" Jethro. a friend? non christian?, christian brother? Hinny Ben types?
 
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