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Bible Study Where In Heaven Do Christians Go When They Die.

smaller said:
The "City" is constructed of people. God Himself by His Spirit MOVES through the City, which is the people.
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I'm sorry, I do not see you have backed this with any relevant scripture and it looks, to me, a lot like a spin.

smaller said:
There is an acquaintance time, prior to City entry, when those who passed on before us come to greet us. And celebration, "like" a Divine Musical or Festival, prior to joining the City. Where we then know what it is to live in transparency, without our 'guards up.' There is no guard. Everything is beautifully transparent and clear. We do not currently know what it is "like" to live in this kind of "openness." Robed with Heavenly Garb, of real love.
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I just cannot see this in the scriptures you have offered here. I, aloso, have not found this anywhere in scripture.
 
th1b.taylor said:
I'm sorry, I do not see you have backed this with any relevant scripture and it looks, to me, a lot like a spin.
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Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I just cannot see this in the scriptures you have offered here. I, aloso, have not found this anywhere in scripture.
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Matthew 22:
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Revelation 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

My bad if I didn't cite them. I usually take for granted that believers have made these connections already from the Word, by knowing these things.
 
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Sinthesis said:
I learn a lot from people with whom I disagree in some areas, Dr. John MacArthur included.
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I used to listen to MacArthur a lot on the radio way back when. He's a talented orator. Read some of his books as well. I never found him offensive in basic christian understandings for the most part.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Dr. John MacArthur says that the shed blood of Christ on the cross has nothing to do with our salvation.
It is well documented that this is what he continues to preach.
I. for one, wouldn't listen to a word he says.
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I do not particularly like his preaching, but unless I provided the exact statement in the entire context, I would be very careful about the accusations that one makes about another Christian. What is attributed to Dr.MacArthur is a heresy, and that is a very serious accusation.
 
Chopper said:
I thought it would be wise to apologize to Rollo Tamasi for my quick response to his statement about not liking John MacArthur. I'm sorry Rollo that I answered so quickly and not really in a loving manner to you, my dear Brother, I'm sorry.

It's been a long time since I went over MacArthur's theology on the Blood of Jesus that he made in the middle 70s. in which he puts more emphasis on the death of his body than the Blood for the forgiveness of our sins. Most solid teachers of the Word of God including myself believe that MacArthur is in error. The problem is, and still exists as far as I know, that he refuses to admit that his statements to a member were wrong. Perhaps pride is in his way.

Dr. John MacArthur is a great Pastor/teacher. I have followed his teachings for years and never found anything that was against the Word of God. This unfortunate error in his theology marks everything that He teaches. Just like how Rollo responded, "Dr. John MacArthur says that the shed blood of Christ on the cross has nothing to do with our salvation.
It is well documented that this is what he continues to preach.
I. for one, wouldn't listen to a word he says." Rollo is right, and his statement about what MacArthur teaches is true. What bothered me was that he said, "I for one, wouldn't listen to a word he says."

When I studied what MacArthur said, I could see that he was trying to seek a balance between Christ's Blood, and the death of His body having an equal function in providing Salvation for the world. I personally believe that the shedding of Christ's Blood, according to the Scriptures is most important.

I still believe that because Dr. MacArthur is a highly educated man in the original languages, history of Israel, and New Testament theology, he may have seen something about the sacrifice that Christ, in His body, went thru, might have seen a sacrificial element in that death. Was his theology on the Blood of Jesus wrong? Yes, without a doubt. Am I going to throw out all his other teachings and theology? No. I have, over the years learned very valuable theology from the man. Do I agree with all that he teaches? Certainly not. I do not adhere or teach his theology on, lets say the Pentecostal movement. He believes that "tongues" are not for today, I disagree.

Ok folks, I repent of how quickly, in the flesh, I was, in my response to Rollo Tamasi. And if anyone thought ill of my response to him, I'm sorry. I try to live above the energy of the flesh, and respond being led by the Spirit of God....I love you all, and especially you Rollo in this incident....:hug
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As I look back in time (it's true, I remember less everyday), I now remember listening to Jon MacArthur on a subject I had interest in and he was teaching me what I wanted to hear.
Then I looked deeper into his teachings and found people complaining that he did not always teach sound doctrine.
I can't remember everything but I did remember about the blood.
So then I started questioning myself.
If he teaches false doctrine here, then what I wanted to learn from him, was that sound doctrine or not.
At that point, I chose to stay away from his teachings.

We all look at things differently.
I chose to avoid his teachings.
Someone else, who has enjoyed his teachings in the past, may choose to overlook a mistake.
We all just do what we do.
And in the end, I hope we can all go out to a bar in heaven and have a drink together.
 
I certainly don't buy into hardline Calvinism, primarily on one count. Their sights of limited atonement. And this is partly how MacArthur is led to his conclusion with blood atonement.

It's just not easy subject matter. I also adhere to limited atonement. There are an abundance of views on the subject. That doesn't mean I would say MacArthur is a heretic whatsoever. Believers do have different beliefs. I do not consider them "that critical" or "important." Unless some want to force issues and divide over them, which is usually what happens, unfortunately. And then christians start damning each others to hell, and in that they lose an even bigger battle within themselves.

Nobody is that right. We all see only in part, and this alone should be enough to keep us from falling into damnations to each others, one might think. IF any christian sect doesn't turn down the volume of damning other believers, I simply will not fellowship with such. I'll be polite and see them as saved regardless of their ill headedness, only for my own good.

But I won't fall into the theological mud with them. In my eyes they have been victimized by the "accuser of the brethren" in all such activity, in their hearts.

The whole "priest caste" system is fraught with problems. They have to put bread on their table, so some intellectual, sooner or later, finds a niche to pry away others to his sect. In today's self centered world having better free snacks prior to and after the service is enough to empty a neighboring church.
 
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This is a Bible Study thread not a study on MacArthur ... this has been address twice now ,,, any more post on MacArthur will be deleted... STAFF

Start a thread on MacArthur not in Bible Study...
 
smaller said:
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.



Matthew 22:
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Revelation 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

My bad if I didn't cite them. I usually take for granted that believers have made these connections already from the Word, by knowing these things.
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I'm sorry but without spinning an idea, preconceived or learned from another source, these and other scriptures do not support some, opaque, idea of a city built out of people and eing one that has often cited Matt. 22:1-14 I am led by te Spirit of God to understand that these 14 verses are used by Jesus to teach us how Heaven is structured, not that we will enjoy Madi Gras.
 
th1b.taylor said:
I'm sorry but without spinning an idea, preconceived or learned from another source, these and other scriptures do not support some, opaque, idea of a city built out of people
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Not here to debate it. The City is not a city of sticks and bricks. Jerusalem above is described also by Paul as "our Mother." This is the "City" that is anticipated by faith, and it is also described as "a bride." In both cases of sights, we are a part of that City.

Galatians 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

As to festival, there are many many citings and likewise "shadows" of same contained in the O.T. Here, we have clips or pictures of this, from Jesus:

Matt. 26
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Luke 22:
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 12:37
Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

The food and wine at this celebration will not be food and wine, as we know it in the physical.

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

The Passover itself is a picture of all of these matters.

Make of it what you will, or can. I know what awaits.
 
smaller said:
Not here to debate it. The City is not a city of sticks and bricks. Jerusalem above is described also by Paul as "our Mother." This is the "City" that is anticipated by faith, and it is also described as "a bride." In both cases of sights, we are a part of that City.

Galatians 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

As to festival, there are many many citings and likewise "shadows" of same contained in the O.T. Here, we have clips or pictures of this, from Jesus:

Matt. 26
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Luke 22:
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 12:37
Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

The food and wine at this celebration will not be food and wine, as we know it in the physical.

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

The Passover itself is a picture of all of these matters.

Make of it what you will, or can. I know what awaits.
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But all of these citations, when read in their greater context place glorified bodies inside the city, not as the building materials but rather members, citizens, of that city ruled and built, built with His spoken word (Genesis 1), not with nor of the bodies of the saints. And in other citations, easily searched from the web, the saints, gone ahead of us are under the table crying when, how long, much as we on the Earth cry.

And dude, I'm not trying to argue nor to debate, Iḿ trying to discuss so why even inject that? It is not a scripture.
 
th1b.taylor said:
But all of these citations, when read in their greater context place glorified bodies inside the city, not as the building materials but rather members, citizens, of that city ruled and built, built with His spoken word (Genesis 1), not with nor of the bodies of the saints. And in other citations, easily searched from the web, the saints, gone ahead of us are under the table crying when, how long, much as we on the Earth cry.

And dude, I'm not trying to argue nor to debate, Iḿ trying to discuss so why even inject that? It is not a scripture.
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Perhaps you'll see God's Wisdom in "associations" here?

1 Corinthians 3:
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 
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