New Jerusalem

[Marilyn C]

The promise spoken of is to Abraham and his seed. Is there another promise you are speaking of as Abraham was shown land on this earth that He and his seed would inherit. Abraham is not in heaven and will rise again on the last day as Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. The resurrection of us all.

The NT was written in Koine Greek not english. The overwhelming translation by teams of translation scholars is on the earth or upon the earth. Your stating Gods word holds true is out of context. As the translated text is considered the meaning of the original greek into english. Scripture

Revelation 5:10 - The Lamb is Worthy

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.

biblehub.com

The tomb was empty. Jesus showed Himself alive on this earth. He is the beginning of the resurrection and the firstborn from the dead. The resurrection is to this earth. If the saints remain in heaven, then there is no resurrection. Abraham was shown the land on this earth that He and his seed would inherit. Jesus is that seed. If one has the Spirit of Christ in them, they belong to Jesus and are one with Him and are also that seed and partakers of the promise God made to Abraham.

If we are on the Lord`s own throne and you say that is ON the earth, then why does God`s word show that Jesus` own throne is on Mount Zion, in the third heaven. (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 4: 2 & 3)

Good we agree that Jesus is the SEED. We, the Body of Christ are of Christ for when He ascended He sent His Holy Spirit to make us like Himself. The Old Testament saints however, never had that but are `made righteous` because they obeyed God. (Heb. 11)

 

[Randy]

If we are on the Lord`s own throne and you say that is ON the earth, then why does God`s word show that Jesus` own throne is on Mount Zion, in the third heaven. (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 4: 2 & 3)

Good we agree that Jesus is the SEED. We, the Body of Christ are of Christ for when He ascended He sent His Holy Spirit to make us like Himself. The Old Testament saints however, never had that but are `made righteous` because they obeyed God. (Heb. 11)

Was the promise to Abraham and His seed that he would remain in heaven or inherit the land on this earth God showed him?
Since the body of Christ is that seed in being one with Christ why do you say we remain in heaven?
If the body of Christ remains in heaven then there is no resurrection.

We will be given a place on Christs throne to rule over the nations. That throne won't be in heaven.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Since it is the throne of God and of the lamb showing Jesus on a throne that is in heaven doesn't make your case.



Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

This was well understood and taught. Rise again from the dead to this earth on the last day just as Jesus, the firstborn from the dead, appeared alive on earth. His tomb was empty.
24Martha answered, “I know he will RISE again in the resurrection at the last day.”

A gathering from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. The resurrection of us all.

Therefore, those who don't rise on this day must be those who suffer.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Randy]

`Heaven` is also plural. here are the different realms or areas of heaven.

1. The Atmospheric heaven. (James 5: 18)
2. The Celestial heaven. (Gen. 1: 16 & 17)
3. The third heaven. (2 Cor. 12: 2)

In our glorified bodies we will be like the Lord, ((1 John 3: 2) and will go through the visible and invisible realms. Jesus did. Remember (John 20: 26 Acts 1: 9)

Yes, our bodies will be like the Lords as in the order of Spirit not flesh and blood.
Our place as shown to you will be on earth. Rise again to this earth. The first resurrection as stated in REV.

We don't inherit Jesus's skillset. Our bodies, that cloth our spirit, will be like His body.
9;For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

 

[for_his_glory]

So how did the church and the just men get into the General Assembly in heaven? (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

Hebrews 12:18-29 is all about a Kingdom that can not be shaken. This is the heavenly Kingdom of God, heavenly Jerusalem, that is not the New Jerusalem that God will usher down after Jesus returns for His own on the last day, Rev 21, but that of the third heaven where God, Jesus and the angels reside that no man can see. Notice in vs. 23 the general assembly and the church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven meaning all who are of faith whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. When we physically die the only thing that goes back to God is the very breath He breathed in us.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

 

[for_his_glory]

In our glorified bodies we will be like the Lord, ((1 John 3: 2) and will go through the visible and invisible realms. Jesus did. Remember (John 20: 26 Acts 1: 9)

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

This verse means that we will look like Christ in the form He is in, but yet it does not yet appear what we will look like other than to be in the same form. New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven after this earth is made new again. There are no other realms, visible or invisible, within the New Jerusalem where God and Jesus will dwell with us for all eternity.

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Marilyn C]

Was the promise to Abraham and His seed that he would remain in heaven or inherit the land on this earth God showed him?
Since the body of Christ is that seed in being one with Christ why do you say we remain in heaven?
If the body of Christ remains in heaven then there is no resurrection.

We will be given a place on Christs throne to rule over the nations. That throne won't be in heaven.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Since it is the throne of God and of the lamb showing Jesus on a throne that is in heaven doesn't make your case.



Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

This was well understood and taught. Rise again from the dead to this earth on the last day just as Jesus, the firstborn from the dead, appeared alive on earth. His tomb was empty.
24Martha answered, “I know he will RISE again in the resurrection at the last day.”

A gathering from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. The resurrection of us all.

Therefore, those who don't rise on this day must be those who suffer.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

To Abraham was promised the land of Israel.

The Body of Christ will be in heaven for that is where the Lord`s own throne is. Remember the Father will set His Son on Mount Zion. (Ps. 2: 6) and that is in the third heaven. (Heb. 12: 22) Jesus` throne, seat of power and authority is in the highest. (Eph. 1: 20 - 22) All other thrones are under Him.

As to resurrection day, that is for ALL those in the graves. The Body of Christ will not be in the graves but in heaven. (John. 5: 28 & 29 Rev. 20: 12 & 13)

 

[Marilyn C]

Hebrews 12:18-29 is all about a Kingdom that can not be shaken. This is the heavenly Kingdom of God, heavenly Jerusalem, that is not the New Jerusalem that God will usher down after Jesus returns for His own on the last day, Rev 21, but that of the third heaven where God, Jesus and the angels reside that no man can see. Notice in vs. 23 the general assembly and the church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven meaning all who are of faith whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. When we physically die the only thing that goes back to God is the very breath He breathed in us.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

`For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.` (1 Thess. 4: 14)

 

[Marilyn C]

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

This verse means that we will look like Christ in the form He is in, but yet it does not yet appear what we will look like other than to be in the same form. New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven after this earth is made new again. There are no other realms, visible or invisible, within the New Jerusalem where God and Jesus will dwell with us for all eternity.

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then I, John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down OUT of heaven FROM God.` (Rev. 21: 2)

`God....who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honour and everlasting power.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

God`s throne is in the highest. In the New Jerusalem He has a throne there, meaning His power and authority. He will dwell there by His Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy]

To Abraham was promised the land of Israel.

The Body of Christ will be in heaven for that is where the Lord`s own throne is. Remember the Father will set His Son on Mount Zion. (Ps. 2: 6) and that is in the third heaven. (Heb. 12: 22) Jesus` throne, seat of power and authority is in the highest. (Eph. 1: 20 - 22) All other thrones are under Him.

As to resurrection day, that is for ALL those in the graves. The Body of Christ will not be in the graves but in heaven. (John. 5: 28 & 29 Rev. 20: 12 & 13)

To Abraham and his seed. Hello?

This was taught and well understood and is what the Christian church teaches.
Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
There are many who are in heaven now.

Who do you follow?

 

[for_his_glory]

`For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.` (1 Thess. 4: 14)

One verse without the full context can lead many to misunderstandings. Please read the full context and understand what is being said.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then I, John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down OUT of heaven FROM God.` (Rev. 21: 2)

`God....who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honour and everlasting power.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

God`s throne is in the highest. In the New Jerusalem He has a throne there, meaning His power and authority. He will dwell there by His Holy Spirit.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Both God and Jesus will have a throne in the new Jerusalem as throne signifies God and Jesus rule and presence within the New Jerusalem being the dwelling place for His own. The throne in the New Jerusalem is a fulfillment of God's promises to His people. This also signifies ultimate restoration of all things and the eternal reign of God and Jesus. God, Jesus and all the Holy angels will no longer remain in the third heaven as the New Jerusalem will be their dwelling place.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[for_his_glory]

There are many who are in heaven now.

Jesus nor the angels have never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory, John 5:28, 29, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

​

 

[Randy]

Jesus nor the angels have never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory, John 5:28, 29, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

​

I am speaking of those whose who have fallen asleep in Christ. I don't hold to soul sleep. They will be resurrected on the last day. A bodily resurrection.

Moses appeared alive on the mountain top to speak to Jesus about His impending departure.

My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you

 

[Marilyn C]

To Abraham and his seed. Hello?

This was taught and well understood and is what the Christian church teaches.
Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
There are many who are in heaven now.

Who do you follow?

I follow Jesus.

 

[Randy]

I follow Jesus.

Not in the resurrection.

Since you teach contrary to what the church teaches is that your own theology or did you learn it from another? Why are you afraid to come into the light and state your teacher?

Clearly these souls are in the body of Christ. They don't remain in heaven.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Marilyn C]

Not in the resurrection.

Since you teach contrary to what the church teaches is that your own theology or did you learn it from another? Why are you afraid to come into the light and state your teacher?

Clearly these souls are in the body of Christ. They don't remain in heaven.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

We have different views in our eschatology and it seems we will not understand each other. Thus, let`s leave it for now as we are going on holiday and I won`t be able to come on as often.

all the best, Marilyn.

 

[Randy]

We have different views in our eschatology and it seems we will not understand each other. Thus, let`s leave it for now as we are going on holiday and I won`t be able to come on as often.

all the best, Marilyn.

I understand the message of the NT very well. Any difficultly then would be with your message.
You're afraid to come into the light with the source of your teaching.

The Christain church teaches a bodily resurrection of us all on the last day to this earth. Jesus raises up all those who belong to Him on that last day. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob live by Him and belong to Him. And as written by Paul the promise is to Abraham and his seed not just Abraham and Christ Jesus is that seed along with those who are living by Him.

We can't get to the root of your belief because you keep it hidden but it's certainly not the Spirit of truth. You follow another spirit in this.

Enjoy your holiday.

 

[for_his_glory]

I am speaking of those whose who have fallen asleep in Christ. I don't hold to soul sleep. They will be resurrected on the last day. A bodily resurrection.

Moses appeared alive on the mountain top to speak to Jesus about His impending departure.

My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you

I'm not talking about the false teaching of soul sleep. I agree those of faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus that have physically died will be raised up on the last day when Christ returns, but for now it is only the spirit/breath that God breathed in us making us a living soul that goes back to God when we die. This fleshly body will be changed into a new glorified body that will look different then the flesh and blood body we have now.
Genesis2:7; Ecc 12:7; Matthew 24:29-31; John 3:13; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18

Moses, Abraham, Elijah and Enoch being taken up to heaven needs to be another thread if you would like to start one and tag me into that thread and will reply after we get home from vacation in a couple weeks.

 

[Randy]

I'm not talking about the false teaching of soul sleep. I agree those of faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus that have physically died will be raised up on the last day when Christ returns, but for now it is only the spirit/breath that God breathed in us making us a living soul that goes back to God when we die. This fleshly body will be changed into a new glorified body that will look different then the flesh and blood body we have now.
Genesis2:7; Ecc 12:7; Matthew 24:29-31; John 3:13; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18

Moses, Abraham, Elijah and Enoch being taken up to heaven needs to be another thread if you would like to start one and tag me into that thread and will reply after we get home from vacation in a couple weeks.

The spirit is life the flesh counts for nothing. Moses died. I don't desire another thread. I believe the saints are in heaven aware and alive. They are alive in the spirit. Christ is in them forever. We live by/in Him and never die.
We are a new creation.

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—