Where Their Worm Never Dies

[Exeter]

Mar 9:48 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Metaphorically a worm, stored in the memory banks of the Divine Archive, a factual record of an unregenerate one who was beyond redemption and therefore forever destined to stay the object of the fiery Divine Indignation.

Meta phoric ally . . . 6 syllables . . .

 

[Who Me]

Mar 9:48 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Metaphorically a worm, stored in the memory banks of the Divine Archive, a factual record of an unregenerate one who was beyond redemption and therefore forever destined to stay the object of the fiery Divine Indignation.

Meta phoric ally . . . 6 syllables . . .

Except the delete command has been used and there is no file references to identify the accurst in hell.

The scribes wrote erased from the book of life, literally they meant to scrape the ink off the surface of the page so there was no record.
It is also why our names have been inscribed with an iron pen on toJesus's hands.

We cannot loose our salvation while there is no record of the lost.

 

[for_his_glory]

Gehenna - Valley of Hinnom, Old Testament as Gai Ben-Hinnom, Tophet, in the Talmud as Gehinnam

The oldest historical reference to the valley is found in Joshua 15:8, 18:16 which describe tribal boundaries. The next chronological reference to the valley is at the time of King Ahaz of Judah who sacrificed his sons there according to 2 Chronicles 28:3. Isaiah does not mention Gehenna by name, but the burning place, Isaiah 30:33 in which the Assyrian army are to be destroyed, may be read Topheth, and the final verse of Isaiah which concerns the corpses of the same or a similar battle, Isaiah 66:24 , where their worm does not die. Also read Jeremiah 19:6-8 as a reference to the dead bodies that are thrown over the wall of Jerusalem into Gehenna/Tophet.

(Part of this is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna and the last part starting with Jeremiah 19:6-8 is my own writing.)

Flavius Josephus describes in his book of wars:

Now the seditious at first gave orders that the dead should be buried out of the public treasury, as not enduring the stench of their dead bodies. But afterwards, when they could not do that, they had them cast down from the walls into the valleys beneath. (War 5.12.3).

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.​

 

[JLB]

Except the delete command has been used and there is no file references to identify the accurst in hell.

The scribes wrote erased from the book of life, literally they meant to scrape the ink off the surface of the page so there was no record.
It is also why our names have been inscribed with an iron pen on toJesus's hands.

We cannot loose our salvation while there is no record of the lost.

Lost literally means one belonged to the Lord at one time, then they became lost.


IOW, you can’t lose something that was never yours to begin with.




JLB

 

[Exeter]

We cannot loose our salvation while there is no record of the lost.

That's a bold statement. What can it mean, I wonder?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 

[for_his_glory]

Except the delete command has been used and there is no file references to identify the accurst in hell.

The scribes wrote erased from the book of life, literally they meant to scrape the ink off the surface of the page so there was no record.
It is also why our names have been inscribed with an iron pen on toJesus's hands.

We cannot loose our salvation while there is no record of the lost.

Those who will be saved are those by faith who call upon the name of the Lord after they hear the Gospel preached to them as no one is without excuse.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What tears us away from God is those who preach another gospel separate from the doctrines of Christ as many that lack knowledge will follow these false teachings.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Those who are diligently seeking after truth will find it if they harken unto the voice of the Lord, and not the voice of mere man who teach their own theologies from traditionally found institutes of the working of Satan in whom wants to still your faith.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

God gives us warning that our names will be blotted out of the book of life, especially if we add to or take away from the book of this prophecy that begins in Genesis and ends in Revelations. The prophecies found in Revelation come from the prophecies God gave to the Prophets in the OT, taught by Christ in the NT.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Here is a list of scriptures that deal with names written in the book of life and names being blotted out of this book. Scripture is taken from the KJV.

Exodus 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Malachi 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Philippians 4:2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Who Me]

Revelation is a book of word pictures, do you realy think that God has a library full of record books for each of us, or is it more likely that Gods perfect memory knows who is saved and who is not saved etc etc.

 

[Exeter]

Revelation is a book of word pictures, do you realy think that God has a library full of record books for each of us, or is it more likely that Gods perfect memory knows who is saved and who is not saved etc etc.

That is the thought in the OP.

But as for the imagery or word pictures, God has created us with specific senses through which to communicate. Letters are symbols with which to construct words that represent things and to which sounds are associated.

I believe the Word of God informs us of books in heaven to communicate that monitoring and record keeping takes place, particularly for the purpose of Judgment.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe the Word of God informs us of books in heaven to communicate that monitoring and record keeping takes place, particularly for the purpose of Judgment.

With all due respect do you really think that the vision John was given about the books in Rev 20:11-12 are literal books as there would have to be billions of them from the time of Adam up to the time of Christ return for each person that has ever lived?

We have to remember these are only visions that John receives from the angel that Jesus sent to him as these books are only symbolic of the judgement of God. God will already know in the day of final judgement who will have eternal life and who will be cast into the lake of fire as His judgement comes quick and is not prolonged.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Exeter]

With all due respect do you really think that the vision John was given about the books in Rev 20:11-12 are literal books as there would have to be billions of them from the time of Adam up to the time of Christ return for each person that has ever lived?

We have to remember these are only visions that John receives from the angel that Jesus sent to him as these books are only symbolic of the judgement of God. God will already know in the day of final judgement who will have eternal life and who will be cast into the lake of fire as His judgement comes quick and is not prolonged.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Totally agree, let's not entertain strawman fallacies of things I haven't said, implied or asserted. You actually make my case, which if you check, is about the use of imagery and symbols to communicate what is intended. The imagery may remain abstract but at no point in time or eternity does it cease to point to the object it represents in order to carry its meaning across.

Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.

1Pe 1:22-25 Seeing you have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth through the Spirit in sincere brotherly affection, love one another from the heart fervently: (23) having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and remains forever. (24) For, “All flesh is like grass, and all of man’s glory like the flower in the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls; (25) but the Lord’s word endures forever.”This is the word of Good News which was preached to you.

 

[JLB]

Revelation is a book of word pictures, do you realy think that God has a library full of record books for each of us, or is it more likely that Gods perfect memory knows who is saved and who is not saved etc etc.

He has a book of Life with names written and in it, or not.



JLB

 

[Who Me]

He has a book of Life with names written and in it, or not.



JLB

John wrote in an attempt to enable us to understand, pictures of books and ledgers is something we comprehend, an attempt to discribe a memory system using a lattice of sub atomic particles in a quantum computer would not be understood by his readers.

God is Spirit so his record system will, in my opinion, be contained in the Spiritual realm.

 

[Exeter]

John wrote in an attempt to enable us to understand, pictures of books and ledgers is something we comprehend, an attempt to discribe a memory system using a lattice of sub atomic particles in a quantum computer would not be understood by his readers.

God is Spirit so his record system will, in my opinion, be contained in the Spiritual realm.

The Bible is full of examples of God using imagery to communicate with people.

Act 10:9-16 Now on the next day as they were on their journey, and got close to the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray at about noon. (10) He became hungry and desired to eat, but while they were preparing, he fell into a trance. (11) He saw heaven opened and a certain container descending to him, like a great sheet let down by four corners on the earth, (12) in which were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild animals, reptiles, and birds of the sky. (13) A voice came to him, “Rise, Peter, kill and eat!” (14) But Peter said, “Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” (15) A voice came to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed, you must not call unclean.” (16) This was done three times, and immediately the vessel was received up into heaven.

It's nearly 50 years ago now but the memory of nearly being killed twenty-three days before my 19th birthday when I was a pillion passenger on my friends Kawasaki 750cc motorbike still comes to mind. He didn't have a spare helmet but late that night I took the risk of going on his bike when he offered to take me the 11 kilometres to my vicarage home in the country. Two kilometres from home we crashed into a herd of cows loose on the road. After we flipped and hit the road, sustaining various injuries, I lay briefly unconscious beneath the bike and its rider before finding myself in front of an angel sitting at a small desk consulting a large open book. He looked up at me from the book and simply said, "It's not your time yet."

It still isn't my time, as per Psalm 139:16

New International Version
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

New Living Translation
You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

English Standard Version
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

Berean Study Bible
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.

King James Bible
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

New King James Version
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

New American Standard Bible
Your eyes have seen my formless substance; And in Your book were written All the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

NASB 1995
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

NASB 1977
Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

Amplified Bible
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were appointed for me, When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].

Christian Standard Bible
Your eyes saw me when I was formless; all my days were written in your book and planned before a single one of them began.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Your eyes saw me when I was formless; all my days were written in Your book and planned before a single one of them began.

American Standard Version
Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And my eyes saw my germination upon your Scriptures; all these things were written; behold, the days were cut short, and there was no person in them.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Thine eyes saw my unwrought substance, and all men shall be written in thy book; they shall be formed by day, though there should for a time be no one among them.

Contemporary English Version
but with your own eyes you saw my body being formed. Even before I was born, you had written in your book everything about me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thy eyes did see my imperfect being, and in thy book all shall be written: days shall be formed, and no one in them.

Good News Translation
you saw me before I was born. The days allotted to me had all been recorded in your book, before any of them ever began.

International Standard Version
Your eyes looked upon my embryo, and everything was recorded in your book. The days scheduled for my formation were inscribed, even though not one of them had come yet.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance, And in Thy book they were all written-- Even the days that were fashioned, When as yet there was none of them.

Literal Standard Version
Your eyes saw my unformed substance, And all of them are written on Your scroll, The days they were formed—And not one among them.

New American Bible
Your eyes saw me unformed; in your book all are written down; my days were shaped, before one came to be.

NET Bible
Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence.

New Revised Standard Version
Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me, when none of them as yet existed.

New Heart English Bible
Your eyes saw my body. In your book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there were none of them.

World English Bible
Your eyes saw my body. In your book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there were none of them.

Young's Literal Translation
Mine unformed substance Thine eyes saw, And on Thy book all of them are written, The days they were formed -- And not one among them.

 

[JLB]

John wrote in an attempt to enable us to understand, pictures of books and ledgers is something we comprehend, an attempt to discribe a memory system using a lattice of sub atomic particles in a quantum computer would not be understood by his readers.

God is Spirit so his record system will, in my opinion, be contained in the Spiritual realm.

Yes the Spirit real is more real than the natural realm.

 

[Exeter]

Yes the Spirit real is more real than the natural realm.

Hence the Lamb being the only One worthy to open the seven-sealed-scroll. Favourite scene. Very real.

Rev 5:4-5 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. (5) But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

Rev 5:6-8 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. (7) Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. (8) Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Rev 5:9-10 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, (10) And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I interpret the worm not dying as in always hungry. The worm in humans cause us to want to eat and feel hunger. I do not believe as some teach that the worm is a literal worm that we see on the ground. Its needing food, being hungry, and seeing black and feeling fire and being cursed at and being abused by demons, this is my view of hell. Its all in the bible in different parts. Most of this comes from Jesus teaching Himself.