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Where/what is mystery Babylon?

Will the Real Mystery Babylon Please Stand Up

The true identity of Mystery Babylon...

...from the Scriptures

Rev 17:1: And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters (Manhatten is an island on the Hudson River, East River, and Atlantic Ocean):
2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus (during the Tribulation): and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7: And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast (Empire) that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (Empires not hills of Rome), on which the woman sitteth.
10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen (Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Persia), and one is (Rome), and the other is not yet come (Revived Roman Empire); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth (Antichrist's Empire), and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings (Nations), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Antichrist).
13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14: These shall make war with the Lamb (at Armageddon), and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15: And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16: And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17: For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city (New York), which reigneth over the kings of the earth (UN).

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3: For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies (this cannot apply to Jerusalem).
4: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people (Jews/Christians), that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5: For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6: Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7: How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8: Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire (Jerusalem survives into the Millennium): for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9: And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10: Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11: And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13: And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14: And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15: The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16: And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17: For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18: And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19: And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20: Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21: And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22: And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23: And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth (because they refused the Mark and were martyred).

Jerusalem could not possibly be Mystery Babylon according to these prophecies.

P.S. Your opinion of the Jews sounds a little anti-semitic to me.

Orates 2006
 
Thanks for responding. I fully understand where you are coming from. I had similiar beliefs until I studied for myself and disregared much of the commentary I read. Indeed, my beliefs on who the Whore is does not jive with the majority. Actually, I think that's a good thing.

The reason I lean toward the City of Jerusalem, is because of the many, many times they are called a Harlot in the OT. OT prophecy is chock full of references to Jerusalem being the Harlot.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

You quoted this verse, but added, ("during the Tribulation)". I don't read where this is implied at all. I'd add that "Israel" WAS respnsible for killing their own prophets, no one else.

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

They were also responsible for the killing of the Apostles.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Who else is there that would have the blood of the Prophets and saints found on them? Not Manhattan, not Rome, not even Babylon.

I am not P.S. anti-semitic at all. I just see Scripture for what it says and I try to derive my beliefs from Scripture first and foremost. So, if I sound anti-semitic, then so does Scripture... and God, but we know HE isn't.

Rev 17:1: And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters
In Prophetic language, many waters is a metaphor for "many nations", or people.

Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
 
Double Meanings

You are right in saying that Jerusalem persecuted the Saints, Prophets, etc. in the past, but these are prophecies of the Future. There will also be persecutions of new Prophets and Saints in the end times when the woman, gets drunk with the blood of the Saints, from the opening of the 5th seal. You are also right about waters meaning peoples, nation, tongues etc., but it can also mean actual water! Even if bodies of water are not implied, New York, as the headquarters of the UN, rules (loosely for now) over many people, tongues and nations, in the world body

This does not solve the problem of the great city of Mystery Babylon
#1 being a sea port- ie visible from the sea, and merchants of the sea profiting from it, and
#2 the city is destroyed and broken into 3 parts.
#3 the city has to have a massive impact on the commerce and politics of the world- Jerusalem is a spiritual/religious city.

I don't think I can convince you on this one- it was a revelation to me after pondering all the interpretations out there ie- Rome, Iraq, etc.
There is usually a smoking gun passage which decides it for me one way or another and I think it is the fact that it is visible from the sea, which Jerusalem is not.

P.S. Jews in the end times are being persecuted by the Army out of the North (Ezekiel 38) in Jacob's Trouble. It is they who are being persecuted, not the Christians- just before Jesus returns. So I don't think, as a future prophecy, it can be Jerusalem. I tried writing down a list of every prophecy about Mystery Babylon once and compared different scenarios as to which city it might be- if you did the same- we could compare lists!

P.S.S. I think we have it narrowed down to these two anyway...

Orates
 
P.S. Jews in the end times are being persecuted by the Army out of the North (Ezekiel 38) in Jacob's Trouble. It is they who are being persecuted, not the Christians- just before Jesus returns. So I don't think, as a future prophecy, it can be Jerusalem. I tried writing down a list of every prophecy about Mystery Babylon once and compared different scenarios as to which city it might be- if you did the same- we could compare lists!
Comparing lists might actually turn out to be interesting. Unfortunately right now, I have exuasted myself on this topic and we took up a lot of forums space. I hope someone got somethibg out of it.

I will be taking a break from this subject for a bit. My head isn't in it right nwo. My mom is recovering from lung surgery and my attention should be in supporting her during her recovery.

I'll be lurking in the meantime. 8-) Peace.
 
I would say that i've always leaned more toward the argument that Orates presented.
Now I see another side of the argument that presents Jerusalem, which is just as convincing, thanks to Vic.
I've came to the conclusion that I will watch and see with my eyes, and search for truth in my spirit also.
After all, we have to worship Him in spirit and in truth...both together.
We are seeing so many things unfold in the middle east right now, maybe we won't have to wonder much longer about anything.
Thanks for all the links and time trying to teach me Vic, its no easy task nor was it in vain, now I have something to refer to as I wait and watch.
I see so much unfolding out there right now, I think the time is close at hand when we will know with more certainty than ever before.
 
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