What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Who Believes In The Death Penalty ?

Lewis

Lewis

Member
This is for Christians or Jews ONLY.

Ok because only one answerd my question, let me put it this way. Who believes in the Death Penalty ?

1 If you do why ?

2. And if you don't why ?

3. Does the New Testament support the Death Penalty ?

4. Does the Old Testament laws for the Death Penalty still hold today ?

5. Who believes is a Eye For A Eye, and a Tooth For A Tooth ?
 
Hi Lewis,

This is an interesting discussion. I believe in obeying the State so if they want to put someone to death, I'm not for it but I would obey because of Romans 13:1-7 but having said that, we're part of the powers ordained of God because we have a vote, free speech and representation. I use to be for it until I remembered my grandmother say:

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

My grandmother died over 30 years ago and she remembered when there were few prisons. She seemed to think that our treatment of people bred resentment and and made people evil because they were returning evil to those who committed evil that they forgot to be good.

Would we have an old or new testament if we put Moses to death for killing an Egyptian and for Paul putting Christians to death? I agree that people who act like monsters should be dealt with but the system for the death penalty should really involve God and not ourselves.

I'm really frustrated because a gift card was stolen from me while I was in a department store. I had it laying in the shopping cart and I can't watch my child and everything at the same time. My coupons and receipts didn't fall out but the gift card was missing so all I can do is ask God to forgive the person and ask God to minister to the thief.
 
I'd prefer exile over capital punishment. I don't think the state should be allowed to kill it's own citizens. That ability can be easily misused, and if the system fails, innocent people can and have been put to death.

The exception is that murderers can be killed. The family of the murdered should be given the right to kill the criminal, and only if close family cannot be found should the state be allowed to kill murderers.

Eye For A Eye, and a Tooth For A Tooth is a pretty good system, as it is somewhat similar to the Golden Rule, just much more justice focused.
 
Thats just it, God works through man on certain things. Some cases warrant death. And because man does not do it, the way the Bible says, crime keeps rising. 40 lashes works good too, there is nothing like getting lashed in a public
square. I bet you won't break in another house. And you have to carry out the sentence with some speed as a deterrent. Or people will keep doing crime Ecclesiastes 8:11. Romans 13:1-7 talks about people like judges of the court are the ministers of God giving out wrath when it is warranted. Corporal punishment
gets peoples attention more than anything. The thing with our system is, that innocent people get executed, or are given life in jail. And did not do the crime.
Yes we are supposed to forgive, but there are still consequences. Now if that person is not to die, man can't kill him or her. Because God won't allow it.
But say someone goes in a house and kills everybody in there, even the 2 month old baby. That person deserves death. only and when it was proved that that person was the culprit.
 
Featherbop said:
Eye For A Eye, and a Tooth For A Tooth is a pretty good system, as it is somewhat similar to the Golden Rule, just much more justice focused.
Click to expand...

Try Matthew 5:38-39. In fact, try Matthew 5 in its entirety. I think that the words of Jesus counter the 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' saying.
 
Lewis W said:
Thats just it, God works through man on certain things. Some cases warrant death. And because man does not do it, the way the Bible says, crime keeps rising. 40 lashes works good too, there is nothing like getting lashed in a public square.
Click to expand...

And, Lewis, would that 'lasher' return to his home every night and be a loving husband and father and respected pillar of the community? Remember, there is a cruel individual on the other end of that whip. NO ONE would take on that task if they were otherwise.

Furthermore, crime is not the 'result' of 'inappropriate justice'. There are many reasons why crimes are committed. No one that is 'driven' by an 'inner force' toward criminal behavior will be deterred by the prospects of a harsh punishment if caught. Again, criminal behavior or no criminal behavior has nothing to do with perceived consequences. The crime rate keeps rising for OTHER reasons that are far too complex to discuss here.
 
As a Christian, who is not under the law but a salve to Christ, I would not demand the death penalty. But for a nonbeliever who has lost a loved one, I will not speak out against the death penalty because they are under the law, and the law says they deserve justice. We should not try to dictate the lives of those outside the church, because we too have a master, and who are we to judge someone else's servant.
 
GundamZero said:
As a Christian, who is not under the law but a salve to Christ, I would not demand the death penalty. But for a nonbeliever who has lost a loved one, I will not speak out against the death penalty because they are under the law, and the law says they deserve justice. We should not try to dictate the lives of those outside the church, because we too have a master, and who are we to judge someone else's servant.
Click to expand...

Being a Christian should not mean that we bury our head in the sand and ignore what is going on around us. And, it's hardly a case of 'judging' others for merely speaking out against the killing of another human being ...whatever their offense may have been and no matter how 'justified' we may feel for doing so. A civilized society does not kill to uphold justice.
 
So when did God change ? The moral part of the Old Testament Law still stands. God set up government to help keep evil down, not stop it, because man does not have the power to do so. And He put in man's hands the power to. No what does Romans 13:4 say KJV ?

Romans 13:4 (King James Version)

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Now did you see this(revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.)
 
I often feel that some deserve nothing more than death (especially those that commit crimes against children). But the Ten Commandments always come into my head and I remember "Thou Shall Not Kill".

Also, sometimes I feel like death is an easy way out. What if that person truly is sorry for their crime and they ask for forgiveness right before their death? Sure, I should be happy that someone asked Christ for forgiveness, but I would be mad at the thought of them going to heaven while I was still suffering over a loss or whatever.

I'm very confused as to how I feel about the death penalty.
 
Lewis W said:
So when did God change ? The moral part of the Old Testament Law still stands. God set up government to help keep evil down, not stop it, because man does not have the power to do so. And He put in man's hands the power to. No what does Romans 13:4 say KJV ?

Romans 13:4 (King James Version)

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Now did you see this(revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.)
Click to expand...

Heaven help us when an ambiguous text such as the one presented above justifies our wanting to snuff out the life of another human being. I'm beginning to think that the Bible is just as dangerous as the Koran.
 
Nikki said:
I often feel that some deserve nothing more than death (especially those that commit crimes against children). But the Ten Commandments always come into my head and I remember "Thou Shall Not Kill".

Also, sometimes I feel like death is an easy way out. What if that person truly is sorry for their crime and they ask for forgiveness right before their death? Sure, I should be happy that someone asked Christ for forgiveness, but I would be mad at the thought of them going to heaven while I was still suffering over a loss or whatever.

I'm very confused as to how I feel about the death penalty.
Click to expand...

Because you're allowing your emotions to override your logic.
 
Nikki said:
I often feel that some deserve nothing more than death (especially those that commit crimes against children). But the Ten Commandments always come into my head and I remember "Thou Shall Not Kill".

Also, sometimes I feel like death is an easy way out. What if that person truly is sorry for their crime and they ask for forgiveness right before their death? Sure, I should be happy that someone asked Christ for forgiveness, but I would be mad at the thought of them going to heaven while I was still suffering over a loss or whatever.

I'm very confused as to how I feel about the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Yes Nikki, but God gave those 10 commandments to Moses. But also in that same book Jethro the father- in- law made a suggestion on how Moses should run a court and the rest is history, in those courts in the same book of Genesis death was handed out by those courts. Same thing Romans 13:4 is saying.

And what do you think of this statment by Jesus.

Luke 22:36 (King James Version)

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
 
It’s very hard. I’m British so I don’t have to worry about the death penalty as it was stamped out. I would say overall no. The reason is common sense that many innocent people get killed every year, the system is just not that good enough to just kill guilty people, that’s why it was stamped out here. And the bible part well, it does say an eye for an eye but Jesus said if a man strikes you’re cheek offer him you’re other one. Even though I am Christian the bible or any holy book is not my basis, yes it has very good morals but I seek out humanities view on these issues, as we are multi cultural and cant judge by one thing. Anyway the system and court systems I can’t trust in Britain enough to allow a death penalty, and America is the same. And I’m positive god does not want us killing innocent people in the name of him or justice.
 
Yes you are right innocent people do get killed in this country by this broke justice system. That is the bad thing about it. But that is why the Old Testament says 2 or 3 witnesses should testify in a death penalty case. But hey 3 people can lie on you too. Now that statement Jesus made about turn the other cheek. I have heard one theologian say that He said that in a humorous way. In other words He was joking around. The reason why he said this is because God knows that not everyone is going to turn the other cheek. Because it just don't make sense. Because if a robber came in your house, and was raping your kids and wife, and beating them up, what are you supposed to do stand there. No you are not, and God does not expect you to. You are to protect them if it is possible. And why would Jesus make this statement below.

Luke 22:36 (King James Version)

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

So what does that sound like ? Swords during that time were for fighting and protecting. There are 613 Old Testament Laws, and the moral ones still stand. The sacrificial ones are done away with, by Jesus.
 
RichardE40K said:
It’s very hard. I’m British so I don’t have to worry about the death penalty as it was stamped out. I would say overall no. The reason is common sense that many innocent people get killed every year, the system is just not that good enough to just kill guilty people, that’s why it was stamped out here. And the bible part well, it does say an eye for an eye but Jesus said if a man strikes you’re cheek offer him you’re other one. Even though I am Christian the bible or any holy book is not my basis, yes it has very good morals but I seek out humanities view on these issues, as we are multi cultural and cant judge by one thing. Anyway the system and court systems I can’t trust in Britain enough to allow a death penalty, and America is the same. And I’m positive god does not want us killing innocent people in the name of him or justice.
Click to expand...

Thanks Richard. Nor do I believe that God sanctions killing 'guilty' people in the name of Him or justice. I think that those who support the death penalty would change their minds in an instant if the death penalty were imposed on (a) themselves, or (b) a love one. It's easy to impose such laws on those we don't know personally.
 
If a person murdered another, went to jail, was on death row and became a Christian, should the State put him or her to death when they got around to it?
 
Sothenes said:
If a person murdered another, went to jail, was on death row and became a Christian, should the State put him or her to death when they got around to it?
Click to expand...

America's 'death row' is a bizarre symptom of one of the most inhumane legal systems ever devised by man. That anyone be made to suffer, perhaps for many years, before being finally put to death should make Americans hang their heads in shame.

But few do hang their heads in shame because most simply don't care what consequences befall a criminal. And, few Christians would ever consider visiting and befriending an incarcerated criminal. It's only a handful of dedicated saints who heed the words of Jesus pertaining to "the least of my brethren." Those who yell "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" at every opportunity - almost with relish - seem to be oblivious to the text, "when I was in prison you visited me (Matthew 25:35-46)" as spoken by Jesus.

The last execution in Australia (Ronald Ryan) was in 1967. Ryan was a prison escapee who allegedly shot a pursuing guard in the street outside the walls. The angle of the bullet could not have come from Ryan's rifle (who was not imprisoned for murder, incidentally) but it COULD well have come from the weapon of another guard who was also involved in the shootout. It would appear that the unfortunate victim had been caught in the cross-fire more so than killed intentionally.

Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Ryan was found guilty of murder and later hanged. Many thousands marched the streets on the day of the execution protesting Ryan's innocence as well as protesting the barbaric practice of state-sanctioned executions. The whole incident (trial, guilty verdict and subsequent execution) had been politically motivated by the government (Victoria) of the day, led by Premier Henry Bolte.

Ronald Ryan became a Christian during his last months as a living person. This seems to have been a genuine conversion and not a last-ditch attempt to save his own skin. Ryan knew that this would not be the case (Premier Bolte, a hard man, would hardly have been swayed by one's conversion to Christianity) and was quite prepared to die. Right up until his last moments he prepared himself to meet with Jesus in the hereafter. And, one can safely assume that this will be the case.

How I hate hatred and vindictiveness ...especially when it comes from Christians.
 
Jesus may have been joking but then again, he did take all the punishment what the romans dished out and refused any of his followers to act in a vengeful or violent way, even healing the man who had his ear cut of. The fact is I personally can't say weather jesus was joking, i've always taken his word to be truth and out straight. But like I said religion is difficult in these situations. Were not supposed to judge, that is gods job but for the good of humanity we must have law. I still say the british and american system is to messed up to allow killing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top