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Who Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

Mungo said:
WalterandDebbie
Before we go any further on this can we agree on past issues.

The title is Who Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

Your OP claimed it was Constantine backed up by the Council of Laodicea in the 4th century

I showed in posts 2 & 3 that this was false. The early Christians gathered for worship on Sunday from the 1st century.
Do you agree with that - yes or no?
If no, why do you disagree?
Click to expand...
A common but mistaken teaching is that the first-century apostles and Christians changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday in honor of Christ’s resurrection. But this change did not originate with the apostles and is not taught by the New Testament. Later, however, Sunday worship did spread to many churches.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
A common but mistaken teaching is that the first-century apostles and Christians changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday in honor of Christ’s resurrection. But this change did not originate with the apostles and is not taught by the New Testament. Later, however, Sunday worship did spread to many churches.
Click to expand...
Let's take this a step at a time.
Step 1. Do you agree that the change did not begin with Constantine and the council of Laodicea? Yes or No?
 
We seem to get off the OP,

Thessalonica: Turned The World Upside Down

Acts 17:1-9

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
Read full chapter
 
Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Sabbath is the seventh day, which by our calendar makes it a Saturday. It is the day God rested after creating everything including man and woman. God sanctified it meaning He set it apart from all the other days as a day He rested from all His work. From the time of Adam to that of Mt. Sinai it was never commanded as being a holy day or that all mankind was to rest on that day. It was a holy day as God being Holy and rested that day.

The Hebrew Sabbath was instituted by God given to Moses in Exodus 16 as a day that started from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset as a day of remembrance or a memorial of the Exodus exile as God parted the sea bringing the Hebrews to the promised land by defeating their foes. Hebrews used a Lunar Calendar that is different from our Gregorian calendar we use today.

The Sabbath was a ceremonial law practiced and that of the Old Covenant, the same covenant that circumcised and sacrificed animals. Some may literally circumcise, but we do not sacrifice animals anymore. This ceremonial law was only for Israel and not the Gentiles as now under the new covenant that joins Israel and Gentiles together under the grace of God the ceremonial laws no longer exist as Jesus is now our sacrifice whom we find rest in.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
We seem to get off the OP,

Thessalonica: Turned The World Upside Down

Acts 17:1-9

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
Read full chapter
Click to expand...
I gave you actual quotes from writers of the time to prove that the Sunday worship goes back to the 1st century.
Here they are again:


From the second century
Justin Martyr
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen (Justin Martyr, First Apology, chap 67 - approx 155AD)


Epistle of Barnabus
Further, He says to them, Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure. [Isaiah 1:13] You perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. (Epistle of Barnabus, para 15 AD 117-138)


From the 1st Century
Ignatius of Antioch
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death (Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to The Magnesians, AD 110)
Didache

But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. (Didache – 1st century - some estimate before 70 AD)


You may say Ignatius of Antioch was second century. His letter was from the beginning of the second century but The Church historian Eusebius said he was a bishop for 40 years, so although his death and major writings are in the second century, most of his episcopate is in the first. He was a contemporary of some of the apostles. Indeed Theodoret of Cyrus (5th century) says he was appointed to the see of Antioch by St. Peter himself and was the third bishop there.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
We seem to get off the OP,

Thessalonica: Turned The World Upside Down

Acts 17:1-9

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
9 And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
Read full chapter
Click to expand...

Paul went to synagogues on Saturday because he was preaching Christ to the Jews. It would have been pointless to go on Sunday as the would be few if any Jews there to preach to.
It does not mean Paul kept the Saturday Sabbath.
 
Mungo said:
There is no evidence that the Sabbath was from the beginning.

The Sabbath was first given to the Israelites in the desert and if you read Ex 16 you will see that the Israelites had no clue about it and God had to keep reminding them to keep it. God gave it them as a sign of the (Mosaic) Covenant (all covenants had signs) - Ex 31:12-13, 16-17. It was a sign between God and the people of Israel of his covenant with them The covenant was never given to gentiles.
"Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day." (Dt 5:3)

Moreover the Mosaic Covenant with its laws and commandments was abolished at the cross.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, (Eph 2:13-15)

Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)
Click to expand...

The Sabbath is the seventh day, which is Saturday.


God gave Moses and the children of Israel ordinances as to how to observe the Sabbath under the law.


The day of the week on which the Sabbath was established from the beginning has never changed.


It has always been set aside as a day for man to rest.


Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:1-3


If you believe the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week, then please give us the scripture that teaches us differently.




JLB
 
JLB said:
The Sabbath is the seventh day, which is Saturday.


God gave Moses and the children of Israel ordinances as to how to observe the Sabbath under the law.


The day of the week on which the Sabbath was established from the beginning has never changed.


It has always been set aside as a day for man to rest.


Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:1-3


If you believe the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week, then please give us the scripture that teaches us differently.




JLB
Click to expand...

The Jewish Sabbath is the 7th day. Where have I suggested any different?
However I agree with for_his_glory post #27 that it was for the Jews only - not for gentiles.
 
Mungo said:
The Jewish Sabbath is the 7th day. Where have I suggested any different?
However I agree with for_his_glory post #27 that it was for the Jews only - not for gentiles.
Click to expand...

No such thing as the Jewish sabbath in scripture.

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Genesis 2:1-3


If you believe the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week, then please give us the scripture that teaches us differently.



JLB
 
Last edited:
JLB said:
The Sabbath is the seventh day, which is Saturday.


God gave Moses and the children of Israel ordinances as to how to observe the Sabbath under the law.


The day of the week on which the Sabbath was established from the beginning has never changed.


It has always been set aside as a day for man to rest.


Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:1-3


If you believe the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week, then please give us the scripture that teaches us differently.




JLB
Click to expand...
I've already stated that the sabbath is the seventh day. I called it the Jewish sabbath because it only ever applied to the Jews as part of the Mosaic covenant.
It was never given to all mankind and never given to the gentiles. See post #10
 
Was the Sabbath ever changed? Most Christians set aside Sunday as a special day for worship and I think it was primarily due to commemorating Christ's rising from the dead, but I don't know of God ever changing the Sabbath day.
 
WIP said:
Was the Sabbath ever changed? Most Christians set aside Sunday as a special day for worship and I think it was primarily due to commemorating Christ's rising from the dead, but I don't know of God ever changing the Sabbath day.
Click to expand...
No, it wasn't changed. For those that wish to keep the Jewish sabbath it is still Saturday.
But most Christians choose to rest and worship on Sunday.
 
Mungo said:
Paul went to synagogues on Saturday because he was preaching Christ to the Jews. It would have been pointless to go on Sunday as the would be few if any Jews there to preach to.
It does not mean Paul kept the Saturday Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Yes, it does mean that Paul kept the Sabbath as his manner was as same as our Lord with the Seventh Day:

Treasury of Scripture
And Paul, as his manner was, went in to them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
as.
Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
John 18:20
Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
went.
Acts 17:10,17
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews…
Acts 9:20
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Acts 13:5
And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
reasoned.
Acts 24:25
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
1 Samuel 12:7
Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD, which he did to you and to your fathers.

Love, Walter
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Yes, it does mean that Paul kept the Sabbath as his manner was as same as our Lord with the Seventh Day:

Treasury of Scripture
And Paul, as his manner was, went in to them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
as.
Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
John 18:20
Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
Click to expand...

Of course Jesus kept the sabbath. He was a Jew living under the Mosaic covenant.
We are not Jews living under the Mosaic covenant.

WalterandDebbie said:
went.
Acts 17:10,17
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews…
Acts 9:20
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Acts 13:5
And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
reasoned.
Acts 24:25
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
1 Samuel 12:7
Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD, which he did to you and to your fathers.

Love, Walter
Click to expand...

Yes, of course Paul went to synagogues on the sabbath. That is where he could find Jews to preach to; just as he went down to the riverside where he could find Jewish women to preach to (Acts 13:16).

That doesn't mean we have to go to synagogues to preach to Jews, or keep the 7th day sabbath.
 
Mungo said:
Of course Jesus kept the sabbath. He was a Jew living under the Mosaic covenant.
We are not Jews living under the Mosaic covenant.



Yes, of course Paul went to synagogues on the sabbath. That is where he could find Jews to preach to; just as he went down to the riverside where he could find Jewish women to preach to (Acts 13:16).

That doesn't mean we have to go to synagogues to preach to Jews, or keep the 7th day sabbath.
Click to expand...
As Jesus said: “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” [John 5:19.] He came into this life to do the will of his Father, and not his own will. Our desire and determination should be the same.
 
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