Who created Satan?

[Hospes]

I have never said anything pertaining to being a part of the way international, I never even heard of it until someone here brought it up. I have always referred to The Way as pertaining to Jesus saying He is The Way. I know Jesus is the son of God and he is Christ and the trinity is three yet one.

Please accept my apologies.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I have never said anything pertaining to being a part of the way international, I never even heard of it until someone here brought it up. I have always referred to The Way as pertaining to Jesus saying He is The Way. I know Jesus is the son of God and he is Christ and the trinity is three yet one.

This sounds like the doctrine of the Church of the Enlightened Path.
Are you part of that?
Because they're way out there!

 

[Taniesh]

Please accept my apologies.

:wink accepted

 

[Taniesh]

This sounds like the doctrine of the Church of the Enlightened Path.
Are you part of that?
Because they're way out there!

Whaaaaaatt

 

[WIP]

How about we stick to the topic of this thread and debate in good faith. Too many "one-liner" responses being posted. Discuss this topic with each other with kindness and answer questions that are being presented. It is rude to ignore each other.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can't even have a little fun.
I'm outta here.

 

[GodsGrace]

I like that very much although when so many questions are being flung at a person it makes it hard to answer all of them. So what appears to be rude may be just trying to get to as many as possible. I agree with treat each other with kindness.

So, no scripture for your no. 222?
Which means you have fabricated the entire story. Or, at least, 80% of it. Some is true.

Since this is Apologetics and Theology, scripture is necessary to back up what one posts.
We present facts here, not what we think to be true. Or, at least, what we think has to be backed up.

I had a problem too with this forum when I first started.
Just so you know.

And I do believe it's wrong to add to scripture.
The Apostles passed on what they learned from Jesus. This is what we also are to do.

1 John 1:1-4

Wondering

 

[LovethroughDove]

There must be a very good reason and a deep purpose for God to do all of this and the mystery is still widespread as to why?

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Revelation 19:9 Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!'"

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Philippians 2:5-11 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God, something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death - even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So why things happened the way they did? The things I underlined in Philippians, Jesus did the exact opposite of Satan. Everything was made for Christ because of this fact and Jesus will have a marriage supper at the end of all this. And since Jesus has a obedient Spirit, everything connected to him.........glorifies God the Father

 

[Taniesh]

I will be gone for a short while. I know ya'll miss me while I'm gone . But I will for sure be back.:yes Later2

 

[Kidron]

no I didn't the mind of God which no man can know His mind but we can know His heart.

-
Actually, thats not right.
Paul said we have the "mind of Christ". 1st Corinthians 2:16.
Think of it like this...
If Jesus is in you, and you are "in Christ" then how can you not have what He has or what He is???
You bible tells you that.... "as Jesus IS, so we ARE in this earth". 1John 4:17
Jesus said that a believer is... "bone of His bones and Flesh of His Flesh"....so, we are "One" with Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is our "guide" and this is God, this is Christ, this is Their mind, = and the Holy Spirit is INSIDE every believer.

 

[JohnDB]

Scripture predated Moses.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


If we understand the principle of Mark 4:15 the tempter, the deceiver was IN the "thought processes" of them both. It's pointless to see the serpent as an "external" matter. There was Adam, Eve, and the tempter who had entered into their hearts and deceived them.

There were "invisible" beasts with invisible powers created by God. They still exist. Rev. 16:13-14



That's the common spin that's taught in most colleges in the U.S. today, but it is NOT true. God, His Ways and Means were specifically directed into the physical lineage of Christ from the beginning.


The ways of Satan are to blame only man for sin and direct attentions away from himself.

Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Scriptures did not predate Moses...the Gospel message had but actual pen, paper(vellum) and ink had yet to exist until Moses's era. Egyptian and Sumerian were the first two written languages Hebrew was third with Phonetician (I think) being fourth.
Read carefully the scriptures you provided. Don't go beyond what it says. (As has been repeatedly stated in this thread)

 

[smaller]

Scriptures did not predate Moses...the Gospel message had but actual pen, paper(vellum) and ink had yet to exist until Moses's era.

Then Paul making this statement isn't true:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

We should understand WHO scripture IS:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

And YES, The Word has been with the lineage of Israel from day 1 of man.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Egyptian and Ugarit were the first two written languages Hebrew was third with Phonetician (I think) being fourth.
Read carefully the scriptures you provided. Don't go beyond what it says. (As has been repeatedly stated in this thread)

John tells us identically, here:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word was NOT "developed" by the Phoneticians, the Egyptians, or any number of other Zoroastrians.

 

[JohnDB]

Then Paul making this statement isn't true:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

We should understand WHO scripture IS:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

And YES, The Word has been with the lineage of Israel from day 1 of man.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



John tells us identically, here:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word was NOT "developed" by the Phoneticians, the Egyptians, or any number of other Zoroastrians.

OK we are talking about two separate things here.
I'm talking about pen, ink, and paper (vellum) and you are saying The Word of God which was the "light" created the first day of Creation.
Not the same thing and not what I am referring to.
Paul also says that he is all things to all people so that the Gospel may become known.... meaning God speaks to man in a manner that he will understand. And at the time of penning the Torah an owl or tortoise wasn't going to convey the same symbolism as a serpent.

 

[smaller]

OK we are talking about two separate things here.
I'm talking about pen, ink, and paper (vellum) and you are saying The Word of God which was the "light" created the first day of Creation.

I do not think it unreasonable to conclude that the actions of God in the lineage of Christ's precursors wrote down scripture. Moses didn't just pull a magic scripture rabbit out of his hat.

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The "he" being referred to here is Jesus. Vs. 45.

Jesus also disclosed to Abraham that his people would be taken captive and spend 400 years. It is more than very likely this information was recorded for posterity, even though we don't have it today.

Genesis 15:13
And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

I'd find it highly unlikely this information was not "shared" with Abraham's lineage, scribe on papyrus.

Not the same thing and not what I am referring to.
Paul also says that he is all things to all people so that the Gospel may become known.... meaning God speaks to man in a manner that he will understand. And at the time of penning the Torah an owl or tortoise wasn't going to convey the same symbolism as a serpent.

I would maintain that the Word, both written and Alive, was with the lineage of Christ from the beginning. Even though Enoch for example is generally discounted. Or that the Noahide Covenant wasn't also likewise written and shared in that lineage.

 

[JohnDB]

I do not think it unreasonable to conclude that the actions of God in the lineage of Christ's precursors wrote down scripture. Moses didn't just pull a magic scripture rabbit out of his hat.

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The "he" being referred to here is Jesus. Vs. 45.

Jesus also disclosed to Abraham that his people would be taken captive and spend 400 years. It is more than very likely this information was recorded for posterity, even though we don't have it today.

Genesis 15:13
And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

I'd find it highly unlikely this information was not "shared" with Abraham's lineage, scribe on papyrus.



I would maintain that the Word, both written and Alive, was with the lineage of Christ from the beginning. Even though Enoch for example is generally discounted. Or that the Noahide Covenant wasn't also likewise written and shared in that lineage.

That's what I am saying.

Written languages didn't exist until Sumerian and Egyptian hyroglyphs. (They were the first written languages)
Phonetician was shortly after or before Hebrew... either way Hebrew is one of the oldest written languages in existence.

Pictures assisted the oral tradition of stories shared from one generation to another but they weren't written languages.

The Israelites were unique in this. As a nation that was a bunch of "escaped slaves" they could read and write which only the elite of the wealthiest nations could do.

Oral tradition has its merits but also detractors in that over time the stories become changed and wrong.
Moses learned what to write from God. He spent long hours and days in the Tabernacle with God to do just that. Including telling his own life story. (Which seems kinda weird but hey, it's God doing the telling)

 

[smaller]

That's what I am saying.

Written languages didn't exist until Ugaritic and Egyptian hyroglyphs. (They were the first written languages)
Phonetician was shortly after or before Hebrew... either way Hebrew is one of the oldest written languages in existence.

The fact is we don't know what was in writing, when. Only because those "potential" documents didn't survive, not because they didn't [potentially] exist.

Pictures assisted the oral tradition of stories shared from one generation to another but they weren't written languages.

It is likely that the first law to Adam, "do not eat" was both understood and recorded in their lineage for posterity. They were not ignorant cave men.

The Israelites were unique in this. As a nation that was a bunch of "escaped slaves" they could read and write which only the elite of the wealthiest nations could do.

That kind of makes the point, don't it? I'm also pretty sure that the lineage of Christ knew about and shared the information about 'the tempter/deceiver' and the resultant wrath of God.

 

[JohnDB]

The fact is we don't know what was in writing, when. Only because those "potential" documents didn't survive, not because they didn't [potentially] exist.


It is likely that the first law to Adam, "do not eat" was both understood and recorded in their lineage for posterity. They were not ignorant cave men.


That kind of makes the point, don't it? I'm also pretty sure that the lineage of Christ knew about and shared the information about 'the tempter/deceiver' and the resultant wrath of God.

Here is a link about the first written languages .

It is from them that we understand contextual information about what the first readers of the Torah would be understanding from the text.

Which is why I am saying that the "serpent" in the Garden was not an actual snake or Satan in disguise but a metaphor for Adam and Eve's bad ideas.

 

[smaller]

Here is a link about the first written languages .

It is from them that we understand contextual information about what the first readers of the Torah would be understanding from the text.

Which is why I am saying that the "serpent" in the Garden was not an actual snake or Satan in disguise but a metaphor for Adam and Eve's bad ideas.

Adam and Eve were NOT Satan. The tempter and deceiver in the Garden of Eden was Satan.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Adam and Eve were NOT deceived by a metaphor of themselves.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[JohnDB]

Adam and Eve were NOT Satan. The tempter and deceiver in the Garden of Eden was Satan.e

Matthew 16:23

Why not?
Peter was.

 

[smaller]

Matthew 16:23

Why not?
Peter was.

I might accept what happened to Peter and hear Satan not as Peter, but as Satan speaking from Peter's lips:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

The very same thing happened to Judas as well:

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Both of these men are showing the "validity" of Mark 4:15. This same principle is shown throughout the N.T., overtly. In Paul for example in 2 Cor. 12:7 and in Romans 7:7-13 & 21.