Who created Satan?

[smaller]

Thanks WIP.
Also, if the sin nature did not enter UNTIL they ate,
WHAT made them eat the fruit?

Not really asking...
Just...

Wondering

The eating was the completion of the cycle of sin from thought to word to deed. The precursors to the finale of the external action of sin was seen in both thought and word prior to eating. This shows that the deceiver, the tempter was already at work in their minds and hearts just as Mark 4:15 depicts, which happened immediately after God blessed them with His Words.

It is unfortunate that people view sin as an external matter only. It is not. Sin dwelt in the flesh of Paul. Romans 7:17-20. Evil was present with Paul. Romans 7:21. A messenger of Satan was in the flesh of Paul. 2 Cor. 12:7. Temptation was in his flesh, his infirmity was temptation. Gal. 4:13-14.

Jesus describes evil as an internal matter. It's not an 'if' or a 'maybe.' But a fact. Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

All of these things speak also to what happened to Adam and Eve as well. And these are all courtesy of the tempter, the deceiver, our adversary. Eph. 6:11-12

 

[GodsGrace]

The eating was the completion of the cycle of sin from thought to word to deed. The precursors to the finale of the external action of sin was seen in both thought and word prior to eating. This shows that the deceiver, the tempter was already at work in their minds and hearts just as Mark 4:15 depicts, which happened immediately after God blessed them with His Words.

It is unfortunate that people view sin as an external matter only. It is not. Sin dwelt in the flesh of Paul. Romans 7:17-20. Evil was present with Paul. Romans 7:21. A messenger of Satan was in the flesh of Paul. 2 Cor. 12:7. Temptation was in his flesh, his infirmity was temptation. Gal. 4:13-14.

Jesus describes evil as an internal matter. It's not an 'if' or a 'maybe.' But a fact. Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

All of these things speak also to what happened to Adam and Eve as well. And these are all courtesy of the tempter, the deceiver, our adversary. Eph. 6:11-12

I agree with all of the above Smaller.
But we still don't know where satan comes from.
This is the number one problem of Christianity.
If God is all-good and omnipotent, why does evil exist?
All you say above is true, but does not answer. The cycle started in the mind. Right. But where did the "bad" thoughts come from?
If the sin nature did NOT EXIST YET in humans, WHY did Eve eat of the fruit?
After all, it's the sin nature that makes us tend toward evil.
Romans 7:14
Romans 7:25

W

 

[JohnDB]

John,
Okay on above.
BUT
God made His Covenant with Adam, not with Eve.
(The Edenic Covenant).

Wondering

Eve is of one flesh with Adam. She was made from his rib. (I'm sure you would agree) so the two are one in many ways.

The Covenant applied to both of them. The actions of Eve (especially with Adam standing right with her) are condemning.
See Numbers 30 for a complete explanation of how a woman is or isn't responsible. Women were one step above property...and not a complete step. And the Patriarchs are said (and written as such) to have followed the Law before it was ever written down. Genesis 4:3 will show this in some translations as it will say "at the appointed time" instead of the"course of time"... meaning that there was an appointed time to bring offerings to God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Eve is of one flesh with Adam. She was made from his rib. (I'm sure you would agree) so the two are one in many ways.

The Covenant applied to both of them. The actions of Eve (especially with Adam standing right with her) are condemning.
See Numbers 30 for a complete explanation of how a woman is or isn't responsible. Women were one step above property...and not a complete step. And the Patriarchs are said (and written as such) to have followed the Law before it was ever written down. Genesis 4:3 will show this in some translations as it will say "at the appointed time" instead of the"course of time"... meaning that there was an appointed time to bring offerings to God.

John,
Would you agree that women were treated better at the time of Moses than at the time of Jesus?
This is what I always read. A bit off the Covenant topic, but would like your opinion.

W

 

[JohnDB]

John,
Would you agree that women were treated better at the time of Moses than at the time of Jesus?
This is what I always read. A bit off the Covenant topic, but would like your opinion.

W

Nope...they weren't... Numbers 30 brings that point home...with an exclamation mark.

 

[ezrider]

If the sin nature did NOT EXIST YET in humans, WHY did Eve eat of the fruit?

Who says the sin nature did not exist yet in humans? Who's to say that the sin nature is part of the clay Adam was formed from? What we do know from reading the account in the book of Genesis, is what Adam DID NOT POSSES, was the knowledge of sin, that was until the commandment came that said thou shall not eat....

 

[GodsGrace]

Who says the sin nature did not exist yet in humans? Who's to say that the sin nature is part of the clay Adam was formed from? What we do know from reading the account in the book of Genesis, is what Adam DID NOT POSSES, was the knowledge of sin, that was until the commandment came that said thou shall not eat....

So you're saying God put the sin nature in us?
Genesis says that A and E should not eat from the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
Doesn't this imply that they knew good, but did not know evil?
Genesis says that God said that everything He created was good.
Isn't sin the same as evil?
Genesis 1:25
Genesis 2:16-17 For in that day you shall surely die. That means that they would know also the evil and knew only the good until they ate of the tree.

You say Adam did not possess the knowledge of sin, but possessed the sin. Why did God remove him, and Eve, from the Garden once the knowledge was gained by them? Was God upset that they gained the knowledge in mind only OR that they now had the sin nature in them and had to be removed from the Garden?

Your concept tells me that God created sin. How could He then be a good God?
Your concept is problematic.

Wondering

 

[ezrider]

Your concept tells me that God created sin. How could He then be a good God?
Your concept is problematic.

So now you judge God? I didn't write the Bible, but I accept what it says.

Isaiah 45:5-9
I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the Lord have created it.
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands.

Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.


If the Lord says I make peace, and create evil, who am I to say but not so.

 

[JLB]

There is zero scriptural justification available for the evil present within any person. Romans 7:21, Gal. 5:17, 2 Cor. 12:7

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.1 John 5:18

The wicked does not touch them.

EDIT


or James 4:7

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7


EDIT


My bible say's I have authority over the evil one and the power to cast out devils, as well as make the devil flee.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:17


I guess if you don'r believe then the devil has access to you, to deceive you and oppress you, as well as torment you, and make you sick.

The believer has power over these things in Jesus name: To heal the sick, and destroy the works of the devil.



JLB

 

[dianegcook]

I agree with all of the above Smaller.
But we still don't know where satan comes from.
This is the number one problem of Christianity.
If God is all-good and omnipotent, why does evil exist?
All you say above is true, but does not answer. The cycle started in the mind. Right. But where did the "bad" thoughts come from?
If the sin nature did NOT EXIST YET in humans, WHY did Eve eat of the fruit?
After all, it's the sin nature that makes us tend toward evil.
Romans 7:14
Romans 7:25

W

Satan was/ is a fallen angel.
Jude 6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in every lasting chains.....
Satan fell by His pride...
The angel of the bottomless pit...Rev.9:11
He is angry and wants to devour you..
He does it by deception as he did Eve.
He was beautiful and must had been pretty great, to guard the mercy seat.
In Ezek.28:13-15 it resembles the breast plates..
He was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee.
He wants to take us all to hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

So now you judge God? I didn't write the Bible, but I accept what it says.

Isaiah 45:5-9
I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the Lord have created it.
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands.

Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.


If the Lord says I make peace, and create evil, who am I to say but not so.

In the O.T. it was believed that everything was attributable to God. The Jews believed in only one God. They didn't have a different god for everything as the gentiles did. So everything that happened was attributed to God.

Isaiah 45: 5-9 is translated differently in some bibles. For example:

Isaiah 45:5-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 “I am the Lord, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other,
7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

It says "calamity" instead of "evil". The case could be made that there is little difference.

Cyrus was to tame the nations. The Jews understood that God was with them. That God would be with Cyrus. As I said, they attributed everything to God. The theory of satan was not very well developed yet in the Old Testament as also was not the afterlife as Jesus explained it. Some didn't even believe in the afterlife. For example, the Sadducees did not believe in a life after death.

But the point is that God is represented as good throughout the bible. How do we reconcile the two?
Here are but a few scriptures to support that God is a good God:

Mark 10:18
Acts 10:38
Romans 2:4
1 Timothy 4:4
James 1:17
Psalm 119:68
Psalm 106:1
Psalm 69:16
Psalm 145:9
Genesis 1:4
1 Chronicles 16:34

And many more...

Was Jesus not a proper representation of God the Father?

Wondering

 

[ezrider]

And many more...

Was Jesus not a proper representation of God the Father?

To this question I would hedge towards answering as NO. Jesus came to make known the Father, but Jesus was the proper representation of the Son.


If God did not create evil, then why was there a tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The serpent was not the tree tree of knowledge.

Why do you suppose in the book of Jude, like Michael the Archangel, we are instructed not to bring railing accusation against Satan? Why?

 

[selihah]

So then did Adam and Eve have freewill before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Well, even after being told to not of eat of the fruit, they still ate the fruit. So because of that I would have to yes they both had the will to either obey or disobey Gods commandment. Both made the decision to disobey, eat the fruit and then have the audacity to turn around and blame each other for their own actions. What they gained afterwards though was the knowledge.

 

[JohnDB]

Well, even after being told to not of eat of the fruit, they still ate the fruit. So because of that I would have to yes they both had the will to either obey or disobey Gods commandment. Both made the decision to disobey, eat the fruit and then have the audacity to turn around and blame each other for their own actions. What they gained afterwards though was the knowledge.

Blame shifting is still common to this day.
We blame other people, we blame the "situation", we blame the timing of it all...we blame everyone and everything including God himself for our sins....
but we are still guilty.

Adam blamed Eve...that God gave him...Eve blamed the snake...and that was when it really hit the fan because God knew that snakes don't talk.

 

[smaller]

The believer has power over these things in Jesus name: To heal the sick, and destroy the works of the devil.

JLB

Jesus did not destroy sin or the devil. Nor do believers.

 

[smaller]

I agree with all of the above Smaller.
But we still don't know where satan comes from.

Of course we do. God made all things. There are no exceptions. Col. 1:16.

Many freewillers believe in multiple creators aka polytheism, where Satan created himself. Bad direction to go.

This is the number one problem of Christianity.
If God is all-good and omnipotent, why does evil exist?

We know that as well. God bound all to the spirit of disobedience to demonstrate both His Power over ALL and His Eternal Mercy. Romans 11:32, Eph. 2:2. Hope is also a divinely planned produce of being planted in evil i.e. we HOPE it will some day end.

All you say above is true, but does not answer. The cycle started in the mind. Right. But where did the "bad" thoughts come from?

Evil undoubted comes from within, per Jesus. If we view the 'actions' of sin internally, as Paul did in Romans 7, we'd understand that sin automatically reacts "adversely" to law. This same statement is made again in 1 Cor. 15:56, showing that it is the law of God that gives sin it's "resisting" power. Where the law is sown, Satan in man resists via evil thoughts/temptations, deceptions, etc.

If the sin nature did NOT EXIST YET in humans, WHY did Eve eat of the fruit?

Already went through this. Where the Word is sown Satan enters the heart to sin. Mark 4:15. You're still seeing only Eve in the equations. That was not the case.

 

[JLB]

Jesus did not destroy sin or the devil. Nor do believers.

Here are the scriptures I posted.

None of which claim that we destroy the devil.

The teach us that the devil does not touch those born of God, that keep themselves... the devil flees from those who resist him, and we have the authority to cast him out.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.1 John 5:18

The wicked does not touch them.


Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7


My bible say's I have authority over the evil one and the power to cast out devils, as well as make the devil flee.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:17

We have the victory over the wicked one, and his demonic forces.


The believer has power over these things in Jesus name: To heal the sick, and destroy the works of the devil.


We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

...as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.


We have victory over sin, and the devil to live godly lives, free from the devil.

Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36


JLB

 

[Taniesh]

IT
Post no. 222 belongs to Taniesh. Not you.
I'm expecting Taniesh to back up her ideas with scripture.
We're in Apologetics and Theology not the Lounge.

Which of my impressions is wrong?
Taniesh is putting forth ideas that ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE.

The only impressions I like to have are the ones that ARE BIBLICAL and can be supported by scripture.

Can YOU support with scripture post no. 222?

Wondering

Here is some scriptures to back up post no. 222
Here it is talking about Lucifer
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Then in Ezekiel we see reference to the prince of Tyrus yet on into verse 12 it refers to the king of Tyrus therefore two people yet using them as an example of how Lucifer acted. Also showing us according to verse 14 tells us that by saying "the anointed cherub that covereth" would be referring to Lucifer.

EZEKIEL 28
1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it , saith the Lord GOD.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


These are some I put in to back up some of what I said in post 222.

 

[Jim Parker]

Here is some scriptures to back up post no. 222
Here it is talking about Lucifer
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Then in Ezekiel we see reference to the prince of Tyrus yet on into verse 12 it refers to the king of Tyrus therefore two people yet using them as an example of how Lucifer acted. Also showing us according to verse 14 tells us that by saying "the anointed cherub that covereth" would be referring to Lucifer.

EZEKIEL 28
1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it , saith the Lord GOD.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


These are some I put in to back up some of what I said in post 222.

It seems to me that, while the subject is the king of Tyre, that the prophet is talking about Satan.
jim

 

[Free]

Here is some scriptures to back up post no. 222
Here it is talking about Lucifer
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Then in Ezekiel we see reference to the prince of Tyrus yet on into verse 12 it refers to the king of Tyrus therefore two people yet using them as an example of how Lucifer acted. Also showing us according to verse 14 tells us that by saying "the anointed cherub that covereth" would be referring to Lucifer.

EZEKIEL 28
1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it , saith the Lord GOD.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


These are some I put in to back up some of what I said in post 222.

You are reading Satan into those passages when he is not there. They are about the kings of Babylon and Tyre, no one else. This has all been dealt with already.