Who created Satan?

[Jim Parker]

You are reading Satan into those passages when he is not there. They are about the kings of Babylon and Tyre, no one else. This has all been dealt with already.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[Taniesh]

You are reading Satan into those passages when he is not there. They are about the kings of Babylon and Tyre, no one else. This has all been dealt with already.

Free Do you not realize Lucifer and satan are the same.

 

[Taniesh]

Are you two serious? :shock

 

[Free]

Free Do you not realize Lucifer and satan are the same.

People call Satan "Lucifer" but that is not from the Bible. In the Bible there is no being with the name "Lucifer." Again, it's already been dealt with.

 

[JohnDB]

Are you two serious? :shock

Yes they are serious.
The Apologetic of how the Bible was translated into English is why they claim this.
Lucifer is an untranslated Latin word. It isn't Hebrew or Greek.

Just like Eve's name really isn't Eve....it never was. Her name is Hawwa. But Eve is the Latin name meaning the same as Hawwa. (Mother of all living)

There exists many translational oddities in many bibles...the Apologetics of why and how they came into being is a great study.
No one is claiming that a particular translation is wrong or is error ridden. Just some word choices weren't consistent with the rest of the translating and there are reasons why for this. It never was for evil intentions. But they are unique.

 

[Taniesh]

What about people who don't have any access to all those things you all research? I don't what is meant Apologetics although I will look up definition and get back with you.

 

[smaller]

Here are the scriptures I posted.

None of which claim that we destroy the devil.

I was of course referring to your claim stated here:

The believer has power over these things in Jesus name: To heal the sick, and destroy the works of the devil.

Were this true, which it quite obviously is not, there would be no sin, evil or the devil.

The teach us that the devil does not touch those born of God, that keep themselves... the devil flees from those who resist him, and we have the authority to cast him out.

No one casts out indwelling sin from their flesh or eradicates evil present with them. If Paul, an Apostle had these conditions of the flesh, which he obviously did, then it is also true for us and remains true after salvation.

I will maintain the scriptural view that indwelling sin in our own flesh and evil present with us is quite demonic. We are promised wrestling with our adversary, and dominion. But when we say we don't have the wrestling we technically lost the match, have been put out of commission, and are relegated to the sidelines. And in common fashions such become hypocrites who only blame man and entirely miss the obvious adversary.

 

[smaller]

It seems to me that, while the subject is the king of Tyre, that the prophet is talking about Satan.
jim

Brilliant deduction. We should understand that our adversary operates in 'the flesh.' Therefore Satan is addressed IN MAN.

Here are a couple of the more obvious scriptural examples of Satan IN MAN.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The above shows where Satan dwells. IN MAN. He "savors" MAN. Precisely the flesh of man.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Again, same principle. This Divine Principle is isolated in particular by Mark 4:15. It shows Satan's entry into the heart of man. Where then is Satan but IN MAN? In the flesh of MAN.

Were God Himself to speak to any of us, we might recognize that God could very well ALSO address the other party.

This principle is about the most obvious principle in the scriptures. I'm only surprised that it is not commonly factored into understandings.

 

[JLB]

I was of course referring to your claim stated here:

The believer has power over these things in Jesus name: To heal the sick, and destroy the works of the devil.

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark:16-18

Were this true, which it quite obviously is not, there would be no sin, evil or the devil.

Could you explain why Jesus would say that "these signs will follow those who believe... In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover... if it were not true.


There is a world of unbelievers out there, who refuse to believe what Jesus said, and as a result they do not do the things Jesus said they would do.

No one casts out indwelling sin from their flesh

I have never heard anyone say this, why create a red herring, except that you are lacking scripture to validate your claim?

We have dominion over sin, to put to death the deeds of the flesh, that springs from the sin in our flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

again

24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24



JLB

 

[smaller]

Could you explain why Jesus would say that "these signs will follow those who believe... In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover... if it were not true.

You seem to think that is always the case. It wasn't with Jesus and it isn't with us. To cast out also means to "reveal." Many devils were revealed in man by Jesus. Not all of them were cast out by Jesus. See John 8:44 for children of the devil IN MAN that were revealed but not cast out. See Judas for Satan in Judas that was not cast out. Luke 22:3

There is a world of unbelievers out there, who refuse to believe what Jesus said, and as a result they do not do the things Jesus said they would do.

I don't buy claims of complete immunity. Sorry. That obviously was never the case and isn't the case today.

 

[JohnDB]

What about people who don't have any access to all those things you all research? I don't what is meant Apologetics although I will look up definition and get back with you.

Well this is a great reason why people join forums like this one.
No one except for God can know everything. But we each share the things that we have studied and can resource and prove (like in the same manner as research papers) and we all benefit from the shared knowledge of the faith we hold most dear.

Now we need to get back to the Topic at hand and leave the personal comments for PMs and other forums. This one has specific guidelines that must be adhered to.

 

[selihah]

Well this is a great reason why people join forums like this one.
No one except for God can know everything. But we each share the things that we have studied and can resource and prove (like in the same manner as research papers) and we all benefit from the shared knowledge of the faith we hold most dear.

Now we need to get back to the Topic at hand and leave the personal comments for PMs and other forums. This one has specific guidelines that must be adhered to.

Agree, i am always wary of those who claim to have or know the truth. IMO the best anyone can ever offer is their own understanding of the truth.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Who created Satan? any thoughts?

John 1: 1-3

 

[Taniesh]

Born Again 2004, excellent scripture to go along with Isaiah 45:7

 

[selihah]

Mind you 'satan' is a hebrew word therefore it would, I think, be wise to read how it was used in the hebrew bible from whence it came. Nothing in our biblical texts indicate there is another god not even an evil god there is just YHVH. If I were to answer the who created this evil being you call the Devil, Satan and or Lucifer my answer would be: Christianity did.

 

[Kidron]

Mind you 'satan' is a hebrew word therefore it would, I think, be wise to read how it was used in the hebrew bible from whence it came. Nothing in our biblical texts indicate there is another god not even an evil god there is just YHVH. If I were to answer the who created this evil being you call the Devil, Satan and or Lucifer my answer would be: Christianity did.

-
Do you care to explain then how "Christianity" caused the devil and some angels to fall from Heaven?
I'l like to hear you explain that one, as "Christianity" didnt come into existence until Jesus came down here..
And if there is no devil and no demons, then who "tempted Christ" in the Wilderness?
And if there are no demons, then what did Christ 'cast out" of many?
And if Jesus in John 8:44, says that some are of their father the Devil, is Jesus referring to a Hebrew myth?

 

[Taniesh]

Good point Kedron. I would like an explanation from Selihah too.

 

[JLB]

I don't buy claims of complete immunity. Sorry. That obviously was never the case and isn't the case today.

Immunity from what?

Your post makes no sense.

Here is what I said:

There is a world of unbelievers out there, who refuse to believe what Jesus said, and as a result they do not do the things Jesus said they would do.

Those who don't believe, don't do.


Could you explain why Jesus would say that "these signs will follow those who believe... In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover... if it were not true.

You seem to think that is always the case. It wasn't with Jesus and it isn't with us. To cast out also means to "reveal." Many devils were revealed in man by Jesus. Not all of them were cast out by Jesus. See John 8:44 for children of the devil IN MAN that were revealed but not cast out. See Judas for Satan in Judas that was not cast out. Luke 22:3

Jesus cast out devils, and said those who believe would cast out devils.
Jesus healed the sick, and said those who believe would lay hands on the sick and the sick would recover.

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. 13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly. 14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. 16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. Acts 5:12-16


For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. Acts 8:7


11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. Acts 19:11-12


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is some scriptures to back up post no. 222
Here it is talking about Lucifer
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Then in Ezekiel we see reference to the prince of Tyrus yet on into verse 12 it refers to the king of Tyrus therefore two people yet using them as an example of how Lucifer acted. Also showing us according to verse 14 tells us that by saying "the anointed cherub that covereth" would be referring to Lucifer.

EZEKIEL 28
1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it , saith the Lord GOD.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


These are some I put in to back up some of what I said in post 222.

Sorry Tarniesh.
The above does not cover what you said in post no. 222.
Here's that post:

Here is what I have come to learn about the process of Lucifer. God created Lucifer first, He loved Lucifer greatly, God gave Lucifer great beauty, a very intriguing breastplate with all kinds of precious stones on it, and charge of a third of the angels...and anybody knows God knows He don't create just a few He creates legions of angels so a third could be millions or even billions, and He allowed Lucifer to cover His throne, and to walk among the stones of fire above God's head. Not only those God also gave Lucifer great wisdom. God knowing that His plans to create mankind to gain a self will there had to be another option for man to make a choice so Lucifer was chosen to be the one who could be the only one as close to God as Lucifer was to do the task of being that opposition. Therefore once God gave all these things to Lucifer God knew it would change Lucifer into the very tool God needed to introduce to mankind as a choice. There is not one created being under God that ever will be able to handle such power and attention other than God so it eventually got to Lucifer and iniquity was found in Lucifer. Lucifer became puffed up with pride and turned a third of the angels into followers of Lucifer. Then Lucifer became satan in the process. Then God was ready to place Satan right in the middle of Adam and Eve's living room so to speak then God created Adam and Eve. Therefore Adam and Eve was told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of both good and evil. There must be a very good reason and a deep purpose for God to do all of this and the mystery is still widespread as to why? We are allowed to ask God question because says in Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

First of all Ezekiel is speaking about a real King. Sometimes an allusion will be made that it seems to be speaking of satan, but this is exactly what my point has been. YOU are adding to the text. You are making it say what you want it to say.

All the highlighted and underlined above are extra-biblical ideas you have about satan that are no where to be found in scripture. How do we know God placed satan in the Garden of Eden, for example?

Yes, we are to ask God anything. But the answer must be supported by scripture. Otherwise, anyone could just make up any story they found interesting - even though it was not biblical.

This is important and is the only reason I'm replying. I do hope you take this into consideration when reading scripture. It's not a movie YOU are directing - GOD is the director.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Immunity from what?

Your post makes no sense.

You keep citing 1 John 5:18, thinking that makes believers "immune" from the tempter's internal temptations.

It doesn't.