Who is Allah?

[Drummer4Christ]

We can't: it is wrong about God.

Exactly! That is, partially, the point of this thread. The God of the Qur'an cannot be the same God of the Bible if, by your own admission, the Qur'an is not divinely inspired/cannot be trusted/is wrong about God.

No matter how many attributes Allah may share with YHVH, you said so yourself: the Qur'an is wrong about God

 

[Sinthesis]

Exactly! That is, partially, the point of this thread. The God of the Qur'an cannot be the same God of the Bible if, by your own admission, the Qur'an is not divinely inspired/cannot be trusted/is wrong about God.

No matter how many attributes Allah may share with YHVH, you said so yourself: the Qur'an is wrong about God

The God of the Bible is slandered in the Qu'ran.

 

[jasoncran]

satan often tells half truths. those are the most effective lies.

 

[EricTheBaptist]

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/

I can't believe all these Muslims are lying to me. It says RIGHT THERE "Same God as the Christians and Jews, just different interpretations." I know a lot of people here are trying to reject this idea.

 

[Stormcrow]

They believe in God (Yahweh) but their beliefs do not sit with him. Obviously they believe in Yahweh because they're an Abrahamic religion. Meaning they believe in the same God but VERY different teachings.

That's not what history tells us about the founding of Islam or the nature of its god:

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.,

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

 

[Stormcrow]

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/

I can't believe all these Muslims are lying to me. It says RIGHT THERE "Same God as the Christians and Jews, just different interpretations." I know a lot of people here are trying to reject this idea.

One word:Taqiyah.

Here is how Muslims define this word according to the Koran:

If speaking the truth can cause a man to lose his life, property or esteem, then it is a natural instinct that he shall seek to protect those things, through methods that can include (in some circumstances) refraining from stating the truth. Islam claims to be the religion of nature, one that in times of desperate need allows its adherent to even eat the meat of dead animal or pork.

In other words, Taqiyah is the practice of "religious dissimulation*" whereby adherents of Islam are allowed to lie about their beliefs - or even deny them - to protect their lives, property and even their "esteem!"

So even when faced with the possible loss of honor and respect, taqiyah allows a Muslim to deny Allah or lie about who and what Allah is!

However, what does Christ tell His disciples they are to do even when faced with death itself?

{32} "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. {33} "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33 (NASB)

{12} If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 2 Timothy 2:12 (NASB)

Muslims are not "misguided Christians" by even the most liberal application of the term "christian."

* Noun 1. dissimulation - the act of deceiving
deception, dissembling, deceit
falsification, misrepresentation - a willful perversion of facts

 

[theLords]

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/

I can't believe all these Muslims are lying to me. It says RIGHT THERE "Same God as the Christians and Jews, just different interpretations." I know a lot of people here are trying to reject this idea.

lol, your youthful naivety is cute. I'm not arguing for or against Allah as the same God, I don't want to get involved, but are you going to believe something just because someone says so?

Of course, the Muslims are going to say they serve the same God as the Christians and Jew, they need to validate their false religion!

 

[Stormcrow]

One more word about Taqiyah:

The impetus for Muslims to overtake hostile nations through immigration, and astronomically high birth rates when they get there, is so that as they begin to form majority enclaves and, eventually, become a majority of the nation's population, they don't have to practice Taqiyah.

Their ultimate goal is the subversion of every free nation's laws through majority rule and the stealthy implementation of Sharia, thereby obviating the need to hide or lie about what they believe. The means by which they begin to implement Sharia in free societies, however, is through population growth and Taqiyah: lying about what they want and how they intend to achieve it.

It is, after all, the Mohammedan way. Any alleged "prophet" that would take a girl at age six as his wife then consummate said marriage when she was nine does not worship the same God I do.

Our God is not a God who blesses pedophiles, liars, and murderers.

Mohammed: MHRIH.

 

[kidcanman]

Surah Al 'Imran

3:54 And they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah too was deceptive, for Allah is the greatest deceiver.
Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahukhayru almakireena

You mistranslated this verse. If you look at any Muslim translation you will not find the word Makr translated as deceiver. The word means plotter or planner. It can be translated as schemed in this context, but not deceiver. So you did not translate the verse correctly.

Allah has 99 names, some of which include:

Al-Mumit (the destroyer)

Al-Mutakabbir (the most proud)

Ad-Darr (the afflictor)

And of course you mistranslated Al-Mutakabbir. I am not surprised. The actual translation is, "Supreme in Greatness, or Majestic"

1 John 2:

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Muslims do not deny that Jesus is the Christ so this verse does not apply to us.

Ever since 9/11 it is sad how much false information many Christians have put out about Islam. Especially since all of the devout Christians that I have know personally have been relatively honest people.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

You mistranslated this verse. If you look at any Muslim translation you will not find the word Makr translated as deceiver. The word means plotter or planner. It can be translated as schemed in this context, but not deceiver. So you did not translate the verse correctly.

7:99 Did they secure God's scheme/deceit ? So no(one) trusts God's scheme/deceit except the nation the losers.
Afaaminoo makra Allahi fala ya/manu makra Allahi illa alqawmu alkhasiroona

10:21And if We made the people taste/experience mercy from after calamity/disastrous distress touched them, then for them (is) cheatery/deceit/schemes in Our verses/evidences . Say: "God (is) quicker/faster (in) cunning/scheming , that Our messengers write what you cheat/ deceive/scheme
Wa-itha athaqna alnnasa rahmatan min baAAdi darraa massat-hum itha lahum makrun fee ayatina quli Allahu asraAAu makran inna rusulana yaktuboona ma tamkuroona


Makr is never used in a positive manner, it denotes dishonesty not a simple act of planning.

Examining the context reveals that both Allah & the unbelievers were not merely engaged in benign "plotting" but, outright deceit. Verse 55 affirms this:

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme

How did Allah accomplish this?

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them

That is deception, not "planning".

And of course y mistranslated Al-Mutakabbir. I am not surprised. The actual translation is, "Supreme in Greatness, or Majestic"

Not according to Imam Ghazali, who defines "al-Mutakabbir" by saying that:

"He is the One Who sees everything and everyone as insignificant besides Himself, Who sees greatness and pride justified only for Him; so, He looks upon others as kings look at slaves. If this image is true, then one described as such is truly worthy of greatness, and nobody at all can be conceived as such except Allah. But if greatness and pride are artificial, and if pride and arrogance are out of place, unjustifiable, and are abhorred, then such a person is not to be conceived as great. Anyone who sees himself, and only himself, as being the only one who deserves to be held as great, his outlook is surely false, and his viewpoint is null, except in the case of Allah, the Almighty." Istikbar is to think of yourself as being great, instilling the attitude of pride… Such a quality is not fit except purely for Allah, since Allah, Glory and Exaltation are His, is the Only One Who deserves to be described as al-Mutakabbir, and nobody else has the right to think of himself as worthy of being so… Quoting the Lord of greatness, the Almighty God, the Messenger of Allah has said, "Pride is My cloak; Greatness is My shirt; whoever disputes with Me regarding either one of them, I shall surely hurl him into the fire." (The Great Names of Allah, by el-Sayed Rachad el-Moussaoui, Ph.D. [Distributed by the Muhammad Islamic Foundation, 207 East Ohio – # 343, Chicago, Il. 60611], Chapter 11. The Great Name al-Mutakabbir, Glory to Him, pp. 125-127


Are you implying that you know more than Imam Ghazali about the attibutes of Allah?

Muslims do not deny that Jesus is the Christ so this verse does not apply to us.

The Qur'an denies that Jesus was crucified and, that He rose from the dead. The Qur'an denies that Jesus intercedes on our behalf. That is the very nature of Jesus being the Christ.

 

[kidcanman]

7:99 Did they secure God's scheme/deceit ? So no(one) trusts God's scheme/deceit except the nation the losers.
Afaaminoo makra Allahi fala ya/manu makra Allahi illa alqawmu alkhasiroona

10:21And if We made the people taste/experience mercy from after calamity/disastrous distress touched them, then for them (is) cheatery/deceit/schemes in Our verses/evidences . Say: "God (is) quicker/faster (in) cunning/scheming , that Our messengers write what you cheat/ deceive/scheme
Wa-itha athaqna alnnasa rahmatan min baAAdi darraa massat-hum itha lahum makrun fee ayatina quli Allahu asraAAu makran inna rusulana yaktuboona ma tamkuroona


Makr is never used in a positive manner, it denotes dishonesty not a simple act of planning.

You purposefully mistranslated makr as "deceit" and "scheme".

The fact that you mistranslated it does not prove anything. That is like me mistranslating "up" as "down" and then saying, "see how many times "down" is referred to?".

This is deception on your part.

Verse 55 affirms this:

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme

How did Allah accomplish this?

Allah raised Jesus to himself (that answers the first part), and then he revealed the quran in order to clear Jesus' name (that answers the second part)

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them

That is deception, not "planning".

the verse does not read, "so Allah made it appear to them". It reads "so it was made to appear to them".

Not according to Imam Ghazali, who defines "al-Mutakabbir" by saying that:

"He is the One Who sees everything and everyone as insignificant besides Himself, Who sees greatness and pride justified only for Him; so, He looks upon others as kings look at slaves. If this image is true, then one described as such is truly worthy of greatness, and nobody at all can be conceived as such except Allah. But if greatness and pride are artificial, and if pride and arrogance are out of place, unjustifiable, and are abhorred, then such a person is not to be conceived as great. Anyone who sees himself, and only himself, as being the only one who deserves to be held as great, his outlook is surely false, and his viewpoint is null, except in the case of Allah, the Almighty." Istikbar is to think of yourself as being great, instilling the attitude of pride… Such a quality is not fit except purely for Allah, since Allah, Glory and Exaltation are His, is the Only One Who deserves to be described as al-Mutakabbir, and nobody else has the right to think of himself as worthy of being so… Quoting the Lord of greatness, the Almighty God, the Messenger of Allah has said, "Pride is My cloak; Greatness is My shirt; whoever disputes with Me regarding either one of them, I shall surely hurl him into the fire." (The Great Names of Allah, by el-Sayed Rachad el-Moussaoui, Ph.D. [Distributed by the Muhammad Islamic Foundation, 207 East Ohio – # 343, Chicago, Il. 60611], Chapter 11. The Great Name al-Mutakabbir, Glory to Him, pp. 125-127


Are you implying that you know more than Imam Ghazali about the attibutes of Allah?

You got this translation of Ghazali from an anti-Islam website. Most likely answeringislam. Ghazali did not speak English and so I need to see the original Arabic quote of Ghazali from a neutral site in order for me to believe that Ghazali said this. I have little reason to trust answeringislam.

The Qur'an denies that Jesus was crucified and, that He rose from the dead. The Qur'an denies that Jesus intercedes on our behalf. That is the very nature of Jesus being the Christ.

That is your understanding of what being the Christ means. I disagree and I think your understanding is wrong. But actually I was kind of being facetious in even refuting your conclusions regarding 1 John 2. Really I don't have much reason to believe that this verse is inspired.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

You purposefully mistranslated makr as "deceit" and "scheme".

The fact that you mistranslated it does not prove anything. That is like me mistranslating "up" as "down" and then saying, "see how many times "down" is referred to?".

This is deception on your part.

Provide a verse in the Qur'an where "Makr" is used positively & does not denote dishonesty.

Allah raised Jesus to himself (that answers the first part), and then he revealed the quran in order to clear Jesus' name (that answers the second part)

the verse does not read, "so Allah made it appear to them". It reads "so it was made to appear to them".

The context is clear. Unless you are implying that Allah was too impotent to "made it appear to them".

You got this translation of Ghazali from an anti-Islam website. Most likely answeringislam. Ghazali did not speak English and so I need to see the original Arabic quote of Ghazali from a neutral site in order for me to believe that Ghazali said this. I have little reason to trust answeringislam.

Your issue should be with El-Sayed Rachad El-Moussaoui Ph. D and the translators of "The Great Names of Allah". Not to mention the Muhammad Islamic Foundation, who disseminated the translation.

That is your understanding of what being the Christ means. I disagree and I think your understanding is wrong. But actually I was kind of being facetious in even refuting your conclusions regarding 1 John 2. Really I don't have much reason to believe that this verse is inspired.

Anti-Islamists corrupted that verse, right? I'm surprised Allah isn't "al-Mutakabbir" enough to prevent his words from being corrupted.

 

[kidcanman]

Provide a verse in the Qur'an where "Makr" is used positively & does not denote dishonesty.

You provided the verses, I'm not sure why I should simply repeat the verses that you provided.

In all of those verses you translated Makr as deceive.
That is deception on your part.

The truth is that an honest translation reveals that Makr does not denote dishonesty in any of those verses. As can be seen in any Muslim translation of the verses.

It is sad that many Christians have embraced deceit in their attempts to discredit Islam.

The context is clear. Unless you are implying that Allah was too impotent to "made it appear to them".

What context? You presented all the relevant context in the quote. And so everybody can read that it does not say that Allah made it appear to them so. It says that it was made to appear to them so.

Your issue should be with El-Sayed Rachad El-Moussaoui Ph. D and the translators of "The Great Names of Allah". Not to mention the Muhammad Islamic Foundation, who disseminated the translation.

First of all, I don't agree with your understanding of the quote. Secondly I did not find the quote on any websites created by Rachad El-Moussaoui. But I did find it on the answeringislam website. And of course if it is on that website, then It is probably no true.

Anti-Islamists corrupted that verse, right? I'm surprised Allah isn't "al-Mutakabbir" enough to prevent his words from being corrupted.

It's apparent that there are many people who will easily spread lies to discredit Islam. So yes, it is possible that the same kind of people are the ones that corrupted that verse.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

You provided the verses, I'm not sure why I should simply repeat the verses that you provided.

In all of those verses you translated Makr as deceive.
That is deception on your part.

The truth is that an honest translation reveals that Makr does not denote dishonesty in any of those verses. As can be seen in any Muslim translation of the verses.

If Makr does not denote dishonesty, than provide a verse where it is not used in such a negative manner. Provide a verse where Makr is used to describe a benign (or positive) act of planning, as opposed to plotting against someone in order to gain the upper hand.

context? You presented all the relevant context in the quote. And so everybody can read that it does not say that Allah made it appear to them so. It says that it was made to appear to them so.

Again, are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to "plot" against the Jews who "planned" to crucify Jesus by uttering falsehoods against him? Are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to make it appear that Jesus had been killed by the Jews, when in reality Allah raised Jesus to himself?

First of all, I don't agree with your understanding of the quote. Secondly I did not find the quote on any websites created by Rachad El-Moussaoui. But I did find it on the answeringislam website. And of course if it is on that website, then It is probably no true.

The excerpt comes from the english translation of the book "The Great Names of Allah", by el-Sayed Rachad el-Moussaoui, Ph.D. Distributed by the Muhammad Islamic Foundation. Unless you have proof that deceptive alteration of the aforementioned text took place, your accusations & objections are baseless.

It's apparent that there are many people who will easily spread lies to discredit Islam. So yes, it is possible that the same kind of people are the ones that corrupted that verse.

Once again, are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to prevent such corruption of his holy word?

 

[Sinthesis]

Once again, are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to prevent such corruption of his holy word?

I've always been amazed that Allah is not powerful enough to get his point across in anything but Arabic.

 

[jasoncran]

and somehow for the most part as vince is showing in the first millenium thread theres as tendency for it to spread by violence.

 

[kidcanman]

If Makr does not denote dishonesty, than provide a verse where it is not used in such a negative manner. Provide a verse where Makr is used to describe a benign (or positive) act of planning, as opposed to plotting against someone in order to gain the upper hand.

In each of the verses you cited, when the term Makr is used in association with Allah, it is used to describe a positive act of planning.

Makr can simply mean plan.

This concept is simple but I know that you are going to pretend to not understand it.

Again, are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to "plot" against the Jews who "planned" to crucify Jesus by uttering falsehoods against him? Are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to make it appear that Jesus had been killed by the Jews, when in reality Allah raised Jesus to himself?

No I did not imply that in any way. Go and read my post again closely.

The excerpt comes from the english translation of the book "The Great Names of Allah", by el-Sayed Rachad el-Moussaoui, Ph.D. Distributed by the Muhammad Islamic Foundation. Unless you have proof that deceptive alteration of the aforementioned text took place, your accusations & objections are baseless.

No actually the anti-Islam websites that you got the excerpts from "claim" that the excerpts are an English translation of the "The Great Names of Allah". I have little reason to trust those websites.

Once again, are you saying that Allah is not powerful enough to prevent such corruption of his holy word?

Once again you really need to read my post more closely because I did not make that claim in the least. Of course if you can't understand my simple post then how can I trust that you understood what you read about the word "Makr"?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

In each of the verses you cited, when the term Makr is used in association with Allah, it is used to describe a positive act of planning.

Makr can simply mean plan.

This concept is simple but I know that you are going to pretend to not understand it.

In 3:54, Makr is applied to both the unbelieving Jews & Allah. Please explain what the Jews were "planning" and, what Allah "planned" in response.

No I did not imply that in any way. Go and read my post again closely.

So, you admit that Allah did "plot" against the Jews. Exactly what did Allah "plan" in response to the falsehoods leveled against Jesus, which led to His crucifixion?

No actually the anti-Islam websites that you got the excerpts from "claim" that the excerpts are an English translation of the "The Great Names of Allah". I have little reason to trust those websites.

Again, unless you have proof that mistranslation occurred, your claims are baseless. Please post the original Arabic text, and point out specifically where mistranslation occurred.

Once again you really need to read my post more closely because I did not make that claim in the least. Of course if you can't understand my simple post then how can I trust that you understood what you read about the word "Makr"?

So, Allah is powerful enough to prevent his holy word from corruption?

 

[Stormcrow]

Allah is powerful enough to prevent his holy word from corruption?

Allah's not even powerful enough to keep Satan from corrupting the Koran.

When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses. Salman Rushdie did not invent the Satanic verses.4


In Sura Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his mistake, alleging that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God. But later on Allah abrogated those Satanic Verses with new revelations and instructs his prophets with new verses. According to Islam, Allah permits such demonic inspiration to test weak believers and to cut off those with hardened hearts.

Of course this begs the question, "If Satan was allowed to corrupt some of the Koran, why not most if not all of it?"

How could anyone place their faith in a "god" who allowed his word to be corrupted by Satan?

 

[John Zain]

Who is Allah, the "god" of the Qur'an?

There is no such "god", so I he is a ficticious "god".

The "angel" "Gabriel" of the Qur'an was either Satan himself or one of his demons.

And this is why Allah of the Qur'an is simply a ficticious "god".

Please keep in mind that Satan is the greatest liar/deceiver in the history of the human race.

The only humans who have any chance against him at all
are those who take the Bible's warnings about him seriously,
and who recognize him, his demons, and false teachers (see 1 John 4:1-3),
and who follow the Bible's instructions on how to overcome him.

Good luck ... bon chance ... etc.