Nocturnal_Principal_X said:
Who is being talked about in John 1:1-18?
This is an important question and it is vital to ones understanding about God and salvation. So please tell me who is being talked about in John 1:1-18.
To make clear which “who†I’m talking about I have bolded that “who.â€Â
John 1:1-18 (NASB):
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
8He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The He's and Him's that you have bolded ARE Jesus Christ.
What we have to discern is whether or not the Word is simply Jesus Christ or does this word Word have a deeper connotation? Is the Word ONLY Jesus Christ, or is the Word the wisdom of God offered through the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son?
It seems as if the word Word was nothing more, nothing less than Christ Himself, the scriptures would have been much more explicit. I have read what Georges offers concerning agent and this makes much more sense than the 'trinitarian' viewpoint of the Word simply being the entity of Christ Himself.
So, if we take what is offered, I believe that the Word is NOT just 'another' name for Christ, but the 'wisdom' of God. The means by which everything that has been created WAS created. So, when we take this into consideration, perhaps Christ Himself was created 'through' the Word, (wisdom of God), and thus becomes the agent by which this wisdom was bestowed upon man. The 'firstborn of all creation', Christ is a pure indication that Christ Himself was the creation of the Father, hence; Father and Son.
We KNOW that Christ IS the Son of God. What we DON'T know through scripture is that Christ IS God. I know that many believe this, but this is because they are 'taught' such and the Word offers only the vaguest of indications that this is even a possibility.
We DO have the Father, (God), stating Himself that Jesus Christ is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN, and His Son. We have Christ offering that He IS the Son of God. What we don't have is anything other than 'Emanuel', (a name, being interpreted as God among us), and a doubter name Thomas calling Christ his Lord and his God. It seems that when all the evidence is weighed in, there is LITTLE that points to Christ as God Himself, but MUCH that offers that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God. Christ Himself states that His power was given by God. He indicates that God is 'greater' than He. He prays to the Father. He states that there is knowledge that He does not even possess but ONLY the Father Himself is privy to.
When one takes EVERYTHING into consideration, it seems that 'trinity' falls well short of anything that is rock solid in man's understanding of it. And, if what I have offered is true, then to make Jesus EQUAL with God, or to make Him God Himself, would be to take upon ourselves to make Christ into an idol of worship that goes against what we have been commanded of God Himself.
I can show evidence of the symbolism associated with God requiring the sacrifice of a man's son in order to show obedience and love towards God. I wonder, could or would He offer ANYTHING LESS to us? Abraham was stoped at the last possible second, but close enough to the act that it assured that he was willing to complete his assigned task. God followed through with His sacrifice in allowing Christ to die for our sins.
Of what consequence could it possibly accomplish for God Himself to die in the flesh. Satan recognized the Son when he tempted Him in the desert. Why would Satan have tempted God Himself? The fact that Christ, the man, overcame temptation means NIL if Christ were God himself, for NOTHING is impossible for God. yet it was by the overcoming of temptation that ONE MAN became capable of dying for all men. To make Christ into God is to 'take away' much of the fortitude of the man, Jesus Christ. It means that God, more or less, was doing nothing short of 'playing a game' with us. If AnYTHING is possible for God to do, then of what importance would it be for Him to take on the flesh and die?
But, to allow the sacrifice of HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN takes on the importance of the man, Jesus Christ. And for HIS SON to be able, as a man, to overcome temptation, takes on a much more significant achievement than for God Himself to 'overcome' temptation.
So, back to the first 18 verses of John. I believe that all the He's and Him's offered are in reference to Jesus Christ. What I would question however, is whether the Word is simply Christ Himself, or something 'more' than this? We have the Word, and that Word to which we refer is NOT Jesus Christ but the wisdom that He brought to us from the Father, (God). He constantly refers to this exact fact throughout His testimony. That what He offered is NOT from Himself, but from the Father.
I know how important 'trinity' is to them that accept this doctrine. All I can say is that I know NO 'trinity' and I can testify to the presence of Father AND Son in my life. I KNOW God, and I KNOW His Son, my Savior, Jesus Christ. Other than this, I KNOW nothing of any consequence to one's salvation. I KNOW that my relationship with the Father, (God), came about through the acceptance of the Son, (Jesus Christ). And I KNOW that the Spirit exist for it has offered much understanding and conviction throughout my walk.
I am NOT ALWAYS filled with the Spirit as some claim that they are. I have my times of tribulations and temptations. Most of the time I succeed in persevering, other times I fail miserably. But all in all God has NEVER abandoned me and I am forever grateful for the gift that has been offered. I love God, I love Christ and I try my best to love my neighbor as myself. This is the hardest and what I work on the most. For I do understand that God IS LOVE and that the way I can become as close as possible in our relationship is to learn of this love. He Has done EVERYTHING for us, and it is THIS KIND OF LOVE that I strive to understand and if possible emulate. I know that I have my work cut out for me but that doesn't hinder me in the least. I slip, I fall down, I get back up and trudge on KNOWING that God is there anytime that I am not strong enough to 'do it myself.
Now, I propose for ANYONE that believes that they are a Christian to judge me for what I have stated. If I am wrong, then I guess I'll just have to be wrong according to those that really aren't able to judge. But for anyone that understands the truth, what I have offered here is unmistakable.
And Noc, mine didn't come from a church. It came straight from above WITHOUT the interference of man's way. i have tried to understand the churches since starting my walk and since I can't, I question the validity of them. Perhaps I wasn't meant for that yet. But it's not that I 'couldn't play the game', it's that I WON'T 'play the game'. I know what changes have been brought about in my life that I had NO ability to change whatsoever. I know the relationship that I have with the Father, through His Son. This has been MORE than enough for me and MORE than I could have EVER DREAMED OF BEFORE.
So, folks, before you judge me and my understanding, be aware, the Bible does NOT tell us NOT to judge. It simply tells us to 'beware' of HOW we judge for by HOW we judge, will WE TOO BE JUDGED.
Thanks,
MEC
