Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Who is being talked about in John 1:1-18?

  • Thread starter Nocturnal_Principal_X
  • Start date
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
Dont you beleive you have the truth?

God bless

Yes, that's my point. All denominations claim they have the truth and everyone else is false. Everyone believes they are the only one with the truth. Jesus is the Judge who is telling the truth!
 
+JMJ+

Yes, that's my point. All denominations claim they have the truth and everyone else is false.

Do you beleive you have the truth?

Everyone believes they are the only one with the truth. Jesus is the Judge who is telling the truth!

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?
 
If the truth cannot be known with certainty then the Bible is a lie.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"
"Those who worship God MUST worship him in spirit and in TRUTH".

If you do not know the truth with certainty, then you need to keep searching. It can be known.
 
thessalonian said:
If the truth cannot be known with certainty then the Bible is a lie.

Who says truth cannot be known? I dont believe you are correct in trinity theology. sorry. :-D
 
+JMJ+

Their certainly is allot of talk about about truth here.

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?
 
gingercat said:
You guys should take advice of Christine. We non-trinitarians are not going to be convinced by your reasoning and theology. You are not the only ones that read and study the Bible. Your attitudes of "you have the truth" are so arrogant.

Well, gingercat, the topic is about peoples opinions on what John 1:1-18 means. Everyone else is stating their opinions and until your postâ€â€in this topicâ€â€has said nothing about whether someone is a Christian or not.

So please give your arguments about John 1:1-18 and others will give theirs. Now if you try to derail this topic again I will have to delete your postâ€â€I’m not going to let this topic become like the other John topic.

So give your opinion, gingercat, and let others give theirsâ€â€from now on, in this topic, no one is to state whether someone is a Christian or notâ€â€failure will result in deletion.
 
gingercat said:
thessalonian said:
If the truth cannot be known with certainty then the Bible is a lie.

Who says truth cannot be known? I dont believe you are correct in trinity theology. sorry. :-D

I didn't. John 1 is truth. Jesus is the word which was with God and which WAS God made flesh. :)

That okay, NOC. :-D
 
Bubba said:
John 1:1-18 should be clear in regards to Jesus and being God, but may be this verse will help our anti-Trinity people:
Titus 2:13 (New American Standard Bible)
"13.looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, "

Bubba

As I have posted somewhere else. I have not started with a premise and then tried to make scripture fit it. I read scripture and rely on the Spirit of God to reveal truth. Trinitarians seem to start with the premise and then twist the words in order to gain a meaning that suits their premise. And this is another example.

I have already explained what John 1 and a number of other passages are saying but of course those who do not want to see or hear will carry on as they will. Now I believe Trinitarians will continue to believe as they do unless God reveals differently. Similarly, so will I and others like me. The point is, neither should accuse the other of not having a relationship with God through our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. There is only one who is the judge. Christ himself.

Your last text identifies two entities. One being God and the other our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Titus 2:13 (KJV) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 
thessalonian said:
If the truth cannot be known with certainty then the Bible is a lie.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"
"Those who worship God MUST worship him in spirit and in TRUTH".

If you do not know the truth with certainty, then you need to keep searching. It can be known.

Thess. It is Jesus who is the Truth. It is Jesus who is the Word of God. The certainty that I have is not merely through the book called 'the word of God'. For to me, it is the bible that confirms what the Spirit of God has shown me. That is what has set me free and that is why I can say with assurance that I worship God in Spirit and in truth. I can only do this because I know the truth. He is in me and I in Him.
 
+JMJ+

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?
 
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
+JMJ+

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Jesus is The Truth. The Holy Spirit leads those who are born of the Spirit into all truth. So, as one who is part of the body of Christ, I build on and support that which is true.
 
mutzrein said:
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
+JMJ+

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Jesus is The Truth. The Holy Spirit leads those who are born of the Spirit into all truth. So, as one who is part of the body of Christ, I build on and support that which is true.

I'll let FSW rebut you. It's not that your wrong but the Bible gives a perspective that your not acknowledging in your answer.
 
+JMJ+


1 Timothy 3:15 says the pillar and foundation of truth is the Church.
 
Georges said:
Who is John 1:1-18 talking about?

Depends on who is reading the text....

If you are asking a "Jewish Christian" of the 1st century, he will tell you the "Word" is the "Memra, or creative word" of God....

If you are asking a 21 century Trinitarian....he will tell you who it is in terms defined by Non Jewish individuals.....

Now, if the book is written by a Jewish Christian.....by what terms should it be interpreted....by Jewish or non Jewish terms?

Nice one Georges!!
 
Talk about clear. Does it get ANY clearer than this:

John 12:44-50

44Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

45And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Now, this offered in John, the book that 'trinitarians' insist states that Jesus IS God. Guys and gals, please, read what is offered above and try to find 'trinity' in it. Jesus is STATING straight out that he and the Father are separate entities with SEPARATE forms. The Father SENT me is a perfect example of Jesus BEING THE SON of God. I was COMMANDED is another perfect example of Father and Son. No where in this is there a statement that Jesus IS God. I have NOT spoken of MYSELF, BUT THE FATHER which SENT ME. I don't believe that it could be ANY clearer.

Trinity INSIST that Jesus IS God. But, as is OBVIOUS to ANYONE that reads the Word, God IS the Father, the Father is NOT THE SON nor the Son the Father. Since we were specifically told that there is ONLY ONE GOD, Then if the Father IS God, then the Son CAN NOT BE. There is ONLY ONE. NO, not two or three, ONE. One God, ONE Son, and one Spirit. Simply because the pagans that created 'trinity' saw all three AS ONE does NOT make it so.

And I offer again, that we were warned that there would come a time that Christians would be cast out of the churches. And that those that did so would even murder Christians believing that what they did was the will of God. But the only way that they were able to do this is that they knew neither the Father NOR the Son. It doesn't say that they didn't know God. But neither the Father NOR the Son. Get it?

Do we have any example of 'an entity' that has controlled the churches to the point that they were able to 'cast out' the believers. Or an example of those that murdered believers in the 'name of God'? Of course we do. The 'same' folks that brought us 'trinity'. Now, what is stated about 'these people'? They knew neither the Father NOR the Son, indicating that this is the 'way' in which they were able to create a 'god' out of Jesus. Instead of simply accepting what had been offered and realizing that Jesus was/IS the Son of God, they instead elevated the Son into the position of God in order to create this 'trinity'. Theyby creating a 'false god' by making MORE than ONE.

I had a conversation with a group of strangers the other day at the hospital, (my wife was in the emergency room), and we were discussing 'trinity'. There was a guy there that knew almost 'nothing' about the Bible yet had been raised as a Catholic. I brought up some of the points that we have discussed here and the group in it's entirety insisted that there IS 'trinity' and that Jesus IS God. When I refuted this, they collectively started attacking me and accusing me of knowing NOTHING about God or the Word. When the group finally got up and walked off, the guy that was raised a Catholic says, " you know, you were as polite to those people as possible and ALL they did was attack you like a bunch of 'wolves'. Funny folks but this is EXACTLY what they did. Now, understanding what Jesus came to offer goes a long way in explaining their actions. These people were NOT interested in LOVE of any sort. They were simply adament in their attack against me for ONE reason. I had offered to dispell their 'trinity'. So what? If this is the 'truth' and they KNEW it, why let the words of a 'silly man' such as myself, raise their collective hackles? It was like they were possessed by a 'singular' purpose. Like they instantly became something 'other than' human beings and turned instead into some kind of animals; all over this 'trinity'. The exact SAME attitude that the RCC used against those that refused 'trinity' in the past. 'HERETIC, BURN HIM, BURN HIM'. Now, I ask you honestly; could these 'truly' be those that KNOW God OR His Son. When God and Christ have tried to teach us LOVE, yet these that claim to KNOW them offer NOTHING but HATE? I leave it up to you to answer these questions.
 
Imagican said:
Georges said:
Who is John 1:1-18 talking about?

Depends on who is reading the text....

If you are asking a "Jewish Christian" of the 1st century, he will tell you the "Word" is the "Memra, or creative word" of God....

If you are asking a 21 century Trinitarian....he will tell you who it is in terms defined by Non Jewish individuals.....

Now, if the book is written by a Jewish Christian.....by what terms should it be interpreted....by Jewish or non Jewish terms?

Nice one Georges!!


It's only logical...right? :wink: The whole book should be interpreted from a Jewish perspective...NT included.
 
Very logical. That's why the Catholic Church received the teachings from Jewish Apostles and passes on the correct understandings of them on through the ages.
 
The exact SAME attitude that the RCC used against those that refused 'trinity' in the past. 'HERETIC, BURN HIM, BURN HIM'.

Can you name someone the CATHOLIC CHURCH burned because they didn't believe the trinity?

Thanks.
 
Thess,

Considering how deceptive the RCC was when it 'burned' people, there's no telling how many were accused of simply heresy for denying the 'trinity' therefore there being no records of their 'actual' crime other than heresy.

I was using the 'burn him, burn him', as an indication of the attitude that these people acosted me with. Ever seen 'Highlander'? "He's the devil in him, Burn Him, Burn Him". I was offering their attitudes more than a 'literal', 'let's burn him'.

But the RCC was into many differnt ways to torture and murder people other than simply burning them.

Thess, let me ask you, who do you think the people were that the RCC tortured and murdered in the 'name of Christ'? What was their 'form' of heresy? What did they do that warranted being stretched on the rack or slamed into the iron maiden? Having their bones smashed with wagon wheels or being dunked in water over and over again until they drowned. What do you suppose their crimes were that the RCC LOVED them so much that they would rather see them 'burned alive' than to live with their sins? All while the many of the evil evil leaders were iving their lives often oblivious to the rules themselves. Committing adultery fornication stealing and basically just REFUSING to lover their brothers and sisters. Opting instead to become their OWN gods here on earth and insisting that others worship THEM rather than the Father through His Son.

Please, anytime, offer us the 'truth' of their behavior. If I am wrong, show me the others what I am wrong about. I have studied the history of these people and have a pretty clear understanding of who created the 'trinity' and why. i also have a pretty clear understanding of how this doctrine of 'hate' was incorporated into Christianity and how it was inforced, (or forced), upon the masses. The RCC itself has admitted to the shamefulness of their actions of the past. Trying their best to separate those that committed such atrocities from the rest by saying, 'there's bad people in all religions'. Whoa, big difference in bad people in a religion and forcing bad religion upon the people.
 
Considering how deceptive the RCC was when it 'burned' people, there's no telling how many were accused of simply heresy for denying the 'trinity' therefore there being no records of their 'actual' crime other than heresy.

Your kinda hand waving here. What your telling me is you can't back up your statement. Now how many were burned for heresy? Can you list them? I want to see these records you have. Thanks.

When you say "the RCC totured and murdered" do you mean that Church officials, i.e. priests, Bishops, and Popes put people on the rack and tortured them? Can you show me the evidence of this. I do know that people were turned over to governments and governments did in fact put people to death for heresy. Perhaps you might want to read Romans 13 sometime. I need more than just your handwaving dude.


Further you seem to think that because some did wrong then that proves the religion is wrong. Sorry man, but the Bible does not support that. It's the logic of a man. (hey, that's what you are).

I am not saying that Catholics did no wrong. Just asking you to support your accusations and show us that your not exaggerating in the name of "truth" and distorting the record because of your own hatred. Hatred does not just cause men to kill dude. Hatred causes men to distort the record to their own advantage and justify prejudice. I hate to say so but I have seen that out of you. :sad
 
Back
Top