Who is Mystery Babylon ?

[Stormcrow]

Thats your opinion..

You have offered nothing but opinion and vain speculation in this thread, and refuse to receive correction from the Bible itself when it has been clearly and unambiguously presented to you.

I don't care what you believe, but you should be very careful about presuming to teach others your opinions as gospel.

IMHO. 2

 

[savedbygrace57]

storm

You have offered nothing but opinion and vain speculation in this thread,

Thats your opinion..

 

[Stormcrow]

storm
Thats your opinion..

Same is true for you. The difference is, my opinions are based in fact, not fantasy.

 

[savedbygrace57]

storm

Same is true for you.

And you should know what your opinion means to me. Less than nothing..

 

[Stormcrow]

storm



And you should know what your opinion means to me. Less than nothing..

Ditto. I only challenge them for the sake of those who might otherwise be mislead by your misrepresentations. 2

 

[reba]

Is too is not is to is not is to is not is too is not is to is not is to.....:silly

You boys go to the corner until you can play nice reba

 

[smaller]

I don't agree with savedbygrace(whatever#) too often, but he is certainly correct in linking Mystery Babylon with the Mystery of Iniquity.

The fact that they are both Mysteries and both on the bad side of the ledgers should rightfully be linked to spiritual understandings. They really are 'internal matters' and matters of the Holy Spirit pitted against the workings of anti-Christ spirits.

Trying to pin these matters on some physical locality such as Jerusalem past and that Gods Words regarding same are done and fulfilled is rather ridiculous.

The Word of God remains Living and Active.

And the Mystery of Iniquity remains engaged within all mankind.

These matters have always been matters of forward engagements. We can observe the activity of the past. The general methodology and engagements of the parties hasn't changed, and won't until the finality of Mystery Babylon and the the Mystery of Iniquity is fulfilled.

We should all HOPE for the finality of the Mystery of Iniquity. To relegate that as passed is just another lie from that arena held by some in ignorance. I don't blame the holders for trying. They are however like many views. Externally focused when these are internal matters of EVIL within the hearts and minds of the PEOPLE.

Where some readers may view physical people standing on rooftops in Judea and fleeing the coming destruction, deeming that to be Israel past, others may see that as the enemies that still reside at the TOP of People, that is THEIR MINDS, and the coming destruction of THAT activity.

Israel of old, that is the people therein were certainly allegorized as mountains and hills for example:

Isaiah 55:12
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Physical mountains and hills don't sing and trees don't clap. Spiritual understandings don't work that way.

The enemies are 'internal' and within mankind, all, to this day. That is the working of the Mystery of Iniquity to which Mystery Babylon points to.

Anyone looking on the outside of the cup misses the spiritual understandings ENTIRELY, will not see A THING and will continue to be DIVIDED, just as the scriptures state.

When you see EVIL on the inside of the cup, and understand that EVIL is of Satan and devils therein, on the inside of the temple body, you will spiritually see the usurpers therein, and also the promise of forthcoming destruction of THEM.

This is what the texts of Revelation and all related texts of the Old Testament point to.

Jerusalem is still in bondage with her children.

That bondage is SIN.

Sin is and remains of the devil, actively engaged therein on the inside of the cups of every person, believer or unbeliever.

So it is a 'natural' event to have friction between the parties as we see demonstrated in this thread. It happens all the time and should be expected.

There are workers on the inside that resist people looking therein.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Stormcrow]

The fact that they are both Mysteries and both on the bad side of the ledgers should rightfully be linked to spiritual understandings.

If we apply your logic to anything else, we'll see just how ridiculous it is.

The fact that ice cream and ice skating are both ice and both bad for people who shouldn't do them means they should rightfully be linked to diabetes.
​

That's pretty much how much sense your statement - quoted above - makes!

In other words, your conclusion has nothing to do with the premise you've established that the word mystery appears in two different verses in the Bible!

On the other hand, mystery Babylon and the "mystery of iniquity" are - in fact - linked, but to conclude this linkage requires any sort of spiritual understanding is absurd on its face.

Furthermore, their linkage has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that two separate NT authors chose to use the word "mystery" in describing either one!

Please, people. This isn't rocket science!

 

[Stormcrow]

Is too is not is to is not is to is not is too is not is to is not is to.....:silly

You boys go to the corner until you can play nice reba

Yeah, but he started it! :D

(I'll be good if you promise not to turn the car around!)

 

[smaller]

If we apply your logic to anything else, we'll see just how ridiculous it is.

Spiritual understandings from the Word are ridiculous? lol

The fact that ice cream and ice skating are both ice and both bad for people who shouldn't do them means they should rightfully be linked to diabetes.
​

That's pretty much how much sense your statement - quoted above - makes!

I provided specifics. You are welcome to address same. Your little ditty above applies to the subject matter about zero.

In other words, your conclusion has nothing to do with the premise you've established that the word mystery appears in two different verses in the Bible!

There is man logic and there is spirit logic. No amount of man logic will be yielding up any facts about Satan.

On the other hand, mystery Babylon and the "mystery of iniquity" are - in fact - linked,

Of course they are. You just finished trying to dispute what you now agree to? lol again.

but to conclude this linkage requires any sort of spiritual understanding is absurd on its face.

Any type of understanding from the text requires spiritual understanding.

Furthermore, their linkage has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that two separate NT authors chose to use the word "mystery" in describing either one!

I provided a small bit of logic on how that linkage is made. There is much more, but some have no appreciation for the subject matter and are forced by the subject we are (supposedly) discussing to look on the outside of the cup.

Please, people. This isn't rocket science!

I reject most outside of the cup analysis as woefully inept.

If you think evil, sin or Satan were destroyed in 70 a.d. and Jesus returned and it's all happy happy ever since, you are simply wrong.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,

Mark 7:23
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Satan is linked to every sin. Sin still exists. Sin originates from within.

When you logic your way past these facts let me know.

Otherwise you are welcome to make the same mistake the Pharisees made, to look good on the outside of the cup and never be honest within.

Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Anyone who thinks the above is about the other guy, an external city, a physical city past or any number of externally applied matters has not yet looked into their internal cup.

Their sin remains linked to SATAN. And that is why they cannot look within.

enjoy~!

smaller

 

[Stormcrow]

Any type of understanding from the text requires spiritual understanding.

Nonsense. What type of "spiritual understanding" is required to know what Paul meant by the "mystery of lawlessness", when we know that a civil war erupted within Judea and the walls of Jerusalem that led to Rome's intervention???

That's simply one of many historical facts we can know about the time surrounding His return in judgment upon "those who pierced Him" that doesn't require any mystical appeal to "spiritual understanding", as though such gnostic insight is all we need to understand this stuff!

But what bothers me more about such statements is that those who make them are really saying that they are superior to everyone else in both their faith and understanding! It's their way of saying, "I'm better than anyone else" without all the ugly, obvious condescension.

If you think evil, sin or Satan were destroyed in 70 a.d. and Jesus returned and it's all happy happy ever since, you are simply wrong.

If you think that's what He promised as a result of His coming, then you are simply wrong.

{33} ...In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 (NASB)

 

[adelphos]

Hello,

I have believed for years that Mystery Babylon was Old Jerusalem.

Respectfully

Adelphos

 

[smaller]

Are you?

You are certainly willing to spiritualize text and press that into 70a.d.

There are however other avenues of understandings whenever one steps onto that ground.

Nonsense. What type of "spiritual understanding" is required to know what Paul meant by the "mystery of lawlessness", when we know that a civil war erupted within Judea and the walls of Jerusalem that led to Rome's intervention???

Lawlessness is a human condition resulting from sin. Trying to pin it down to Israel where these internal facts were shown and expressed is one thing, but it is the universal condition of mankind as well.

The attempt to show only the people of Israel as the problem is quite lame.

That's simply one of many historical facts we can know about the time surrounding His return in judgment upon "those who pierced Him" that doesn't require any mystical appeal to "spiritual understanding", as though such gnostic insight is all we need to understand this stuff!

IT is also quite factual that the devil is connected (still) to every sin and that includes his 'legions' some of which were in the men who killed him and those evil spirits remain existing to this day and will see Him at 'their' finality.

But what bothers me more about such statements is that those who make them are really saying that they are superior to everyone else in both their faith and understanding! It's their way of saying, "I'm better than anyone else" without all the ugly, obvious condescension.

Uh, no, the real problem is that anybody with half a twit in their heads can read the N.T. Gospels and see Jesus interacting with entities that are not viewable with flesh eyes, such as Satan and devils and CAST SAME out of mankind.

Your accounting methods for these facts are ZERO in preterism, particularly of the 'full' kind.

If you think that's what He promised as a result of His coming, then you are simply wrong.

I believe that when Jesus said some standing there will see Him upon His return, He was speaking to the demonic entities in the people standing there at that time. Very simple really.

{33} ...In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 (NASB)

The world He overcame still exists with sin, which same is of the DEVIL.

You are welcome to bypass the obvious and only look at man. That is and remains only 1/2 the story, and a blinded view. This is of course what God has chosen to keep you in so there really is nothing you can do on your own to gain further insight without accepting the other side of the story, which operates also 'IN YOU.'

Those entities resist exposure in all people. But they are there and active in every sin.

Swallow hard or ignore the fact at your own peril.

enjoy!

s

 

[Sinthesis]

I believe that when Jesus said some standing there will see Him upon His return, He was speaking to the demonic entities in the people standing there at that time. Very simple really.

Innovative! Wrong, but innovative!:D

 

[smaller]

Innovative! Wrong, but innovative!:D

There is no scriptural record of any demon being killed and they were within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day.

It is a logical conclusion that the people are dead but they remain.

Matt. 12:
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

See posts further up for other details should you undertake to respond with specifics about 'wrong.'

Most who post here have about 'zero' accounting for the other parties in their 'end times' views.

But since they are not viewable with 'flesh eyes' it's understandable avoidance. I'll leave 'by whom' to your imaginations.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

There is no scriptural record of any demon being killed and they were within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day.

So let me get this straight: all sinners are demon-possessed???

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Quoted out of context, of course.

Most who post here have about 'zero' accounting for the other parties in their 'end times' views.

But since they are not viewable with 'flesh eyes' it's understandable avoidance. I'll leave 'by whom' to your imaginations.

There seems to be a dearth of comprehensible communication here lately. 2

 

[smaller]

So let me get this straight: all sinners are demon-possessed???

Yeah, you can sure spin a tall tale there stormcrow!

Would you like to say a stray sin thought by the tempter is POSSESSION?!

Or do you just watch too many Linda Blair fliks?

I guess we can throw away John the Apostles facts on this one for you?

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Now you can claim that sin isn't of the devil or that John's words are not applicable anymore or that sin is no longer of the devil because the Jews were run out of Jerusalem in 70a.d. (as if THEY are the same as devils...) but...

a myriad of scriptures foretell of the devils FINAL DESTRUCTION.

The devil's realm is MYSTERY BABYLON. You can't see it with yer eyes no matter how hard you try. It is an invisible world with invisible inhabitants who were granted ACCESS to MANKIND.

Make of it what you can, if you can. Your external past explanations are and will remain quite meaningless in accounting for that side of the scriptural ledgers.

enjoy!

s

 

[Stormcrow]

Yeah, you can sure spin a tall tale there stormcrow!

Care to answer the question without the personal attacks??? 2

Thanks.

Would you like to say a stray sin thought by the tempter is POSSESSION?!

I'm simply asking you to defend the statement you made here:

There is no scriptural record of any demon being killed and they were within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day.

Clearly, you wrote that demons were "within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day." So I ask you again to explain or defend this statement without the personal attacks: do you really believe that any person who sins is demon-possessed?

Please provide chapter and verse in your defense of this!

 

[smaller]

Care to answer the question without the personal attacks??? 2

Thanks.

My question to you on your statement stands unaddressed:

"Would you like to say a stray sin thought by the tempter is POSSESSION?!"

I'm simply asking you to defend the statement you made here:

Clearly, you wrote that demons were "within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day." So I ask you again to explain or defend this statement without the personal attacks: do you really believe that any person who sins is demon-possessed?

Please provide chapter and verse in your defense of this!

If you ever happened to read the Gospels how many accounts of the above do you think are there?

OR did they ALL slip by you?

?!

As stated prior full preterist views are absurd on these matters. Why? Because they have no accounting for the other parties.

You can deny they still exist, and that of course would be very wrong by the accounts of most believers.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

My question to you on your statement stands unaddressed:

"Would you like to say a stray sin thought by the tempter is POSSESSION?!"

I asked you first. If you're not willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer, you shouldn't make such asinine claims in the first place! 2

OR did they ALL slip by you?

This isn't about me, and I'd prefer you'd answer questions without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

However, since it appears you can't, that paints a far less flattering view of your position than it does of mine!