Who is the antichrist?

[reba]

It appears that denial of a coming antichrist would seem to make one an antichrist. Anyway, I am not calling anyone an antichrist, however for those who do not see a coming individual called the antichrist...please study the bible again please, this is believed by most of the church because it is in the bible.

I understand how hard it can be sometimes to thought into words and that your not calling me an antichrist.

I do not find "THEE antichrist " in the Revelation. I see beast but not antichrist.

John penned the little books and also the Revelation why change Gods/his writings.

We gat a whole passel of Christians searching high and low for a person to be THEE antichrist. We are to keep our eyes on Him

 

[Sam21]

I understand how hard it can be sometimes to thought into words and that your not calling me an antichrist.

I do not find "THEE antichrist " in the Revelation. I see beast but not antichrist.

John penned the little books and also the Revelation why change Gods/his writings.

We gat a whole passel of Christians searching high and low for a person to be THEE antichrist. We are to keep our eyes on Him

Of course you are not an antichrist, I have read many of your posts and they are good. I wrote that as kind of a joke(but not entirely),someone who is adamantly opposed to a clear doctrine presented by Christ would at least be anti-that doctrine of Christ(I better give that one up). You seem to be a good sister in the Lord, my point was that John did indeed say that an individual person(antichrist comes) was to come at the last time(end of the age), John was making the statement that since he saw MANY people who were antichrists that this was a sign that the end was near(meaning the attitude of antichrist was already prevelent). Some folks seem to get a hold of John saying that there were many antichrists and forget that before he said that,that John had stated that WE(church)know that THE antichrist is coming. Paul taught this also but Paul called him the son of destruction. The evil end-time ruler will come before the return of Christ, that is what is taught in the bible. We are to be waiting for the return of Christ,but aware that before that occurs the antichrist will be revealed.

 

[Hitch]

Of course you are not an antichrist, I have read many of your posts and they are good. I wrote that as kind of a joke(but not entirely),someone who is adamantly opposed to a clear doctrine presented by Christ would at least be anti-that doctrine of Christ(I better give that one up). You seem to be a good sister in the Lord, my point was that John did indeed say that an individual person(antichrist comes) was to come at the last time(end of the age), John was making the statement that since he saw MANY people who were antichrists that this was a sign that the end was near(meaning the attitude of antichrist was already prevelent). Some folks seem to get a hold of John saying that there were many antichrists and forget that before he said that,that John had stated that WE(church)know that THE antichrist is coming. Paul taught this also but Paul called him the son of destruction. The evil end-time ruler will come before the return of Christ, that is what is taught in the bible. We are to be waiting for the return of Christ,but aware that before that occurs the antichrist will be revealed.

So exactly where does John identify/define evil end time ruler?


And since according to you John errored by thousands of years wrt timing, wrt would you think he got anything else right? You gave up any rights to inspiration.

 

[Sam21]

I forgot to answer what you said about different names for the same individual(little horn,son of destruction,antichrist,beast). That is not unusual in the bible, Creatures, Beasts, Cherubim, all the same beings with different names by different people.

 

[reba]

I forgot to answer what you said about different names for the same individual(little horn,son of destruction,antichrist,beast). That is not unusual in the bible, Creatures, Beasts, Cherubim, all the same beings with different names by different people.[/QUOTE

Beast and Cherubim are not the same thing?

The Scripture gives a clear defination of antichrist. It is not Thee antichrist.


John in this case is not different people. John penned The Revelation and the little books.

 

[Sam21]

So exactly where does John identify/define evil end time ruler?


And since according to you John errored by thousands of years wrt timing, wrt would you think he got anything else right? You gave up any rights to inspiration.

You said John errored, I know that I did not. You have read the NT, no one knew anything about 1900 years so it was knowledge kept by God. Until the very end of his life Paul believed he would be alive to see the return of Christ, see if the NT teaches Christians to be faithful so when they die they will go to Heaven(only Peter said that). The NT taught believers to remain faithful until Christ returned, they were not thinking of dieing they were thinking of Christ returning. The element of time was hidden from them,you can tell by their writings.

 

[Who Says]

I understand how hard it can be sometimes to thought into words and that your not calling me an antichrist.

I do not find "THEE antichrist " in the Revelation. I see beast but not antichrist.

John penned the little books and also the Revelation why change Gods/his writings.

We gat a whole passel of Christians searching high and low for a person to be THEE antichrist. We are to keep our eyes on Him

Yes, anytime we go beyond what the words of the Bible writers themsleves use we begin to allow a place for the entry of our own wisdom. That is true whether our insistence is that someone must believe or claim that Jesus is God Incarnate or or whether we claim someone believing Jesus is God makes them the antichrist or whether we claim the beast is the antichrist or whether we claim that a specific Pope is the antichrist. All of that is adding our own words to the scriptures and the proof that is not of Christ is in the very fact that these ideas become used to hate and ridicule others. People's actions because of these things are extremely contrary to the example of Christ:

1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:"

Christians today have the opposite idea of what our Christian warfare is. And what is, is that we fight the evil one in our self personally so that we do not drag his influence into Christ's body.

 

[reba]

Yes, anytime we go beyond what the words of the Bible writers themsleves use we begin to allow a place for the entry of our own wisdom. That is true whether our insistence is that someone must believe or claim that Jesus is God Incarnate or whether we claim the beast is the antichrist or whether we claim that a specific Pope is the antichrist.

If a person does not believe Jesus is God Incarnate ,any other words he/she my use or quote from Scripture have no value in a christian life.

 

[Hitch]

You said John errored, I know that I did not. You have read the NT, no one knew anything about 1900 years so it was knowledge kept by God. Until the very end of his life Paul believed he would be alive to see the return of Christ, see if the NT teaches Christians to be faithful so when they die they will go to Heaven(only Peter said that). The NT taught believers to remain faithful until Christ returned, they were not thinking of dieing they were thinking of Christ returning. The element of time was hidden from them,you can tell by their writings.

Regarding what ever God 'hid' from the apostles you can be sure they remained silent.

 

[Who Says]

If a person does not believe Jesus is God Incarnate ,any other words he/she my use or quote from Scripture have no value in a christian life.

Show me where it says that in the Bible and I will believe you.

So far everyone I have asked have pointed to where Jesus says, "If you do not believe I am him ..."

But the identity of "him" must not be pulled like a rabbit out of a hat but out of the entire context of Jesus' own words. And when that is done it proves only that Jesus said that he was the foretold Messiah, the Son of God.

Therefore what you say adds to God's word.

 

[Sam21]

I forgot to answer what you said about different names for the same individual(little horn,son of destruction,antichrist,beast). That is not unusual in the bible, Creatures, Beasts, Cherubim, all the same beings with different names by different people.[/QUOTE

Beast and Cherubim are not the same thing?

The Scripture gives a clear defination of antichrist. It is not Thee antichrist.


John in this case is not different people. John penned The Revelation and the little books.

Eze 10:each one had four faces and each one had four wings, I knew that they were cherubim...Eze 1 they had human form and each had four faces and their wings touched one another,each had the face of a man, all FOUR had the face of a lion and the face of a bull,and the face of an eagle. Rev 4:7 four beasts,first like a lion,second like a calf, third beast face like a man and the fourth like an eagle, and the four beasts had wings...that is close enough for me.

 

[Hitch]

Yes, anytime we go beyond what the words of the Bible writers themsleves use we begin to allow a place for the entry of our own wisdom. That is true whether our insistence is that someone must believe or claim that Jesus is God Incarnate or or whether we claim someone believing Jesus is God makes them the antichrist or whether we claim the beast is the antichrist or whether we claim that a specific Pope is the antichrist. All of that is adding our own words to the scriptures and the proof that is not of Christ is in the very fact that these ideas become used to hate and ridicule others. People's actions because of these things are extremely contrary to the example of Christ:

1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:"

Christians today have the opposite idea of what our Christian warfare is. And what is, is that we fight the evil one in our self personally so that we do not drag his influence into Christ's body.

Originally Posted by Hitch
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Originally Posted by Hitch
John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



Antichrist is any one or anything that defines Jesus Christ as anything less than God incarnate.

 

[Sam21]

Regarding what ever God 'hid' from the apostles you can be sure they remained silent.

don't quite understand your point, the time element was not revealed to the NT writers, that is one thing we know that they did not.

 

[reba]

Beast and Cherubim are not the same thing?

Excuse me Sam I was seeing a different word you know the cute little baby guy!

 

[Who Says]

Originally Posted by Hitch
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Originally Posted by Hitch
John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



Antichrist is any one or anything that defines Jesus Christ as anything less than God incarnate.

I claim them both. I honor how they are separate yet one and thus the superlative example to us of how we ought to be in their image.

But we cannot be God as your view would have us be if we truly put on Christ. So I could easily tell you that you deny Christ by canceling his useful example out to us by making him God.

But that thought would make you angry so don't be a hypocrite and speak such things to me.

 

[Hitch]

don't quite understand your point, the time element was not revealed to the NT writers, that is one thing we know that they did not.

How much theology have we humans added to Scripture? John said that WE(church) know that THE ANTICHRIST COMES. John then went on to identify THAT antichrist as someone who would come at the end of the age because he said that he believed that it was the LAST TIME because there were many opposed to Christ(then) and he called them antichrists

Was John correct or not?

If not where do you decide what portion of his letters are inspired?

If he is correct your interpretation is the problem.

 

[reba]

Who says, i dont play semantic games.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Your words to me are empty.

 

[Hitch]

I claim them both. I honor how they are separate yet one and thus the superlative example to us of how we ought to be in their image.

But we cannot be God as your view would have us be if we truly put on Christ. So I could easily tell you that you deny Christ by canceling his useful example out to us by making him God.

But that thought would make you angry so don't be a hypocrite and speak such things to me.

And that is exactly what I expect from antichrist, deny the plain scriptures and attempt the moral high ground approach.

Doubtless this is at least in part why John ideantified a liar as one who says

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[Who Says]

Who says, i dont play semantic games.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Your words to me are empty.

But don't you see that you are trying to force your view of that on me? I gave my view of that in an earlier post. I believe my view makes more sense to me as to what was said. You are not God and your interpretation is no better than mine. So I allow you your view and you allow me my view and we let God help us each one grow. That is love. That is following Christ's example.

We even see the difference in the quality of the love in that I do not say things to you like, "Your words to me are empty". I say, "my view makes more sense to me".

Look at the evident hate expressed in post 118 here:

And that is exactly what I expect from antichrist, deny the plain scriptures and attempt the moral high ground approach.

Doubtless this is at least in part why John ideantified a liar as one who says

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

There is no excuse for that. Is that really what Christ wants us to be like?

Are we not become like fire breathing dragons?

Joel 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

 

[Hitch]

But don't you see that you are trying to force your view of that on me? I gave my view of that in an earlier post. I believe my view makes more sense to me as to what was said. You are not God and your interpretation is no better than mine. So I allow you your view and you allow me my view and we let God help us each one grow. That is love. That is following Christ's example.

We even see the difference in the quality of the love in that I do not say things to you like, "Your words to me are empty". I say, "my view makes more sense to me".

Look at the evident hate expressed in post 118 here:



There is no excuse for that. Is that really what Christ wants us to be like?

Are we not become like fire breathing dragons?

Joel 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Of course he does. Thats why he idetified antichrist.

So we would know a liar when one comes around.

I'll give ya this though ; I hate anyone or anything that tells folks Jesus Christ is anything less than God incarnate.

Its damnable heresy and recorded explictly and has been repeated many time on this thread.