Who is the antichrist?

[Who Says]

I was simply trying to understand your position, but if you prefer not to talk about it I understand.

God bless!

God Bless you also.

For me, when I find unrest in my spirit which ceases that constant rejocing even for a second it is a sign to me that I need to make adjustment of how I see things.

And how to do that I have already shared with you.

What I said about anyone's only being able to know by experiencing it for themself has not changed, nor can I force it to be different.

I love Brother and I know you are sincere.

 

[Hitch]

1- I believe the whole of scripture reveals to me that the Christ is god incarnate, in the flesh. That is a basic and essential tenant of Christiandom and a basic tenant of this site. To deny this is considered heresy and a violation of the site's ToS. The OT says God is Savior. The NT points to Christ as our Savior.

Either we have two distinct saviors or the Father and Jesus are one in the same, as Jesus stated Himself. I'd be really careful because to deny that comes very close to denying Christ in the flesh, which IS the definition of an antichrist.

2- that puts us back on the subject, which is, Who is the antichrist. Continued attempts to derail this topic will cause it to be locked.

Well?

 

[Who Says]

So what we have established thus far is that a chief trait of antichrist is stubborn insistence which is actually a form of haughtiness that they are dishonest with themselves about.

And we all therefore need to scrutinize ourselves in this regard lest we be misrepresenting the love and the holiness of Christ while not knowing we are doing so.

And this fault or tendency is very prevalent in us. We do not want to allow ourselves to jump to branding anyone as antichrist on that basis as it is a trait we all must resist and to do so would also violate love. But we need to be keenly aware of it for it is a significant factor in antichrist. And we can see the prevalence of this if we get honest with ourselves.

 

[Who Says]

For the sake of those that were confused by my wording of this following post I have added to it to assist you to understand what i said.

Please reread it:
http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-antichrist-34964/index9.html#post526193

 

[Sparkey]

We are not commanded to suspend our judgment and to allow the simple gospel of Christ be perverted. Jesus spoke the words that his Father gave him. His disciples spoke the words that Jesus delivered to them. That same word is spoken by those who follow him even today. The purpose of the gospel of John is that we may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that by believing, we may have life in His Name (John 20:31)

Some have come and like the serpent tried to beguile and use their influence and subtle words to change the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ.

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:6-9 KJV

No man who says that Jesus is not the Messiah, no angel who claims that Jesus is not the anointed One of God, no doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ, that he came in the flesh --> is of God. That's fairly simple, isn't it?

 

[Who Says]

We are not commanded to suspend our judgment and to allow the simple gospel of Christ be perverted. Jesus spoke the words that his Father gave him. His disciples spoke the words that Jesus delivered to them. That same word is spoken by those who follow him even today. The purpose of the gospel of John is that we may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that by believing, we may have life in His Name (John 20:31)

Some have come and like the serpent tried to beguile and use their influence and subtle words to change the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ.



No man who says that Jesus is not the Messiah, no angel who claims that Jesus is not the anointed One of God, no doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ, that he came in the flesh --> is of God. That's fairly simple, isn't it?

Man is pathetic and I am the most pathetic among man. It is because I was so bad and then humbled myself to recognize that fact that God has been exceedingly merciful to me.

I know what sound judgment is and I do not say anything prohibiting sound judgment. Sound judgment knows mercy and love. It is holy as he is holy.

But the spirit of antichrist knows only judgment.

 

[Who Says]

1 Corinthians 8:1 "... We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up (to the tearing down of others), but love edifieth (to the building of others up).

Until knowledge can be used in a holy manner it would be better that one knew only love and had no knowledge at all. For their knowledge improperly used only brings judgment upon themselves.

The spirit of antichrist is born of those who do not know how to properly use knowledge.

This will be my final comment on this thread.

I believe the point has been well established and anyone that ignores it now it is on them.


Have fun and honor God by speaking peacefully in love and holiness in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen.

 

[Hitch]

So what we have established thus far is that a chief trait of antichrist is stubborn insistence which is actually a form of haughtiness that they are dishonest with themselves about.

We have done no such thing. The scriptures clearly describe and define antichrist thus;

• 1 John 2:22
  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
  1 John 2:21-23 (in Context) 1 John 2 (Whole Chapter)
• 1 John 4:3
  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
  1 John 4:2-4 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)
• 2 John 1:7
  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

And we all therefore need to scrutinize ourselves in this regard lest we be misrepresenting the love and the holiness of Christ while not knowing we are doing so.

And this fault or tendency is very prevalent in us. We do not want to allow ourselves to jump to branding anyone as antichrist on that basis as it is a trait we all must resist and to do so would also violate love. But we need to be keenly aware of it for it is a significant factor in antichrist. And we can see the prevalence of this if we get honest with ourselves.

see above

 

[Hitch]

1 Corinthians 8:1 "... We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up (to the tearing down of others), but love edifieth (to the building of others up).

Until knowledge can be used in a holy manner it would be better that one knew only love and had no knowledge at all. For their knowledge improperly used only brings judgment upon themselves.

The spirit of antichrist is born of those who do not know how to properly use knowledge.

This will be my final comment on this thread.

I believe the point has been well established and anyone that ignores it now it is on them.


Have fun and honor God by speaking peacefully in love and holiness in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen.

The Lord Jesus Christ is God incarnate and it is blasphemous for anyone denying that to make reference to him by that title.

 

[Hitch]

We are not commanded to suspend our judgment and to allow the simple gospel of Christ be perverted. Jesus spoke the words that his Father gave him. His disciples spoke the words that Jesus delivered to them. That same word is spoken by those who follow him even today. The purpose of the gospel of John is that we may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that by believing, we may have life in His Name (John 20:31)

Some have come and like the serpent tried to beguile and use their influence and subtle words to change the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ.



No man who says that Jesus is not the Messiah, no angel who claims that Jesus is not the anointed One of God, no doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ, that he came in the flesh --> is of God. That's fairly simple, isn't it?

Well stated.

 

[Alabaster]

We are not commanded to suspend our judgment and to allow the simple gospel of Christ be perverted. Jesus spoke the words that his Father gave him. His disciples spoke the words that Jesus delivered to them. That same word is spoken by those who follow him even today. The purpose of the gospel of John is that we may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that by believing, we may have life in His Name (John 20:31)

Some have come and like the serpent tried to beguile and use their influence and subtle words to change the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ.



No man who says that Jesus is not the Messiah, no angel who claims that Jesus is not the anointed One of God, no doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ, that he came in the flesh --> is of God. That's fairly simple, isn't it?

Exactly.

1 John 2:22 NLT
And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

1 John 4:3 NLT
But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

2 John 1:7 NLT
I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[AKJVReader]

uhm, he has a lot of different names,

The Seed of Satan (Genesis 3:15)
The Little Horn (Daniel 7:8)
The King of Fierce Countenance (Daniel 8:23)
The Prince That Shall Come (Daniel 9:26)
The Desolator (Daniel 9:27)
The Willful King (Daniel 11:36)
The Man of Sin (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Son of Perdition (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Lawless One (2Thessalonians 2:8)
The Antichrist (1John 2:22)
The Beast (Revelation 11:7)
The Assyrian (Isaiah 14)
The First Horseman (Revelation 5)
The Wicked One (2Thessalonians 2:3-8)
The Idol Shepherd (Zechariah 11:17)
The Vile Person (Daniel 11)
The One Who Comes In His Own Name (John 5:43)

 

[Stormcrow]

So I could easily tell you that you deny Christ by canceling his useful example out to us by making him God.

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. Titus 2:11-14 (NASB)

What part of this don't people get???

 

[Stormcrow]

uhm, he has a lot of different names,

The Seed of Satan (Genesis 3:15)
The Little Horn (Daniel 7:8)
The King of Fierce Countenance (Daniel 8:23)
The Prince That Shall Come (Daniel 9:26)
The Desolator (Daniel 9:27)
The Willful King (Daniel 11:36)
The Man of Sin (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Son of Perdition (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Lawless One (2Thessalonians 2:8)
The Antichrist (1John 2:22)
The Beast (Revelation 11:7)
The Assyrian (Isaiah 14)
The First Horseman (Revelation 5)
The Wicked One (2Thessalonians 2:3-8)
The Idol Shepherd (Zechariah 11:17)
The Vile Person (Daniel 11)
The One Who Comes In His Own Name (John 5:43)

So much wrong with this list, so little time to address it now. Will deal with this later!

 

[Stormcrow]

The Seed of Satan (Genesis 3:15)
The Little Horn (Daniel 7:8)
The King of Fierce Countenance (Daniel 8:23)
The Prince That Shall Come (Daniel 9:26)
The Desolator (Daniel 9:27)
The Willful King (Daniel 11:36)
The Man of Sin (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Son of Perdition (2Thessalonians 2:3)
The Lawless One (2Thessalonians 2:8)
The Antichrist (1John 2:22)
The Beast (Revelation 11:7)
The Assyrian (Isaiah 14)
The First Horseman (Revelation 5)
The Wicked One (2Thessalonians 2:3-8)
The Idol Shepherd (Zechariah 11:17)
The Vile Person (Daniel 11)
The One Who Comes In His Own Name (John 5:43)

First of all, the only definition we have in the entire Bible of who the antichrist is, comes from John. Read it:

18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22 (NASB)

3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 1 John 4:3 (NASB)

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 1:7 (NASB)
​

The antichrist is anyone who does not recognize the incarnation and deity of Christ!

So with that definition in mind, you can eliminate all but a few of the OT passages above (how can any of them be antichrist when He hadn't come to earth yet?).

Those that remain either point to Nero (Daniel 7), Titus (Daniel 9) or are fulfilled in those who sought to crucify Christ Himself (John 8:44).

Of the NT passages, all either refer to Nero (the "beast") or do not point to a single individual at all! ("The one who comes in his own name" can refer to anyone then or now! It refers to false prophets!)

And the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 (not 5!) is a spirit, not a person! (See Zechariah 6:1-8!)

But more to the point: every one of the verses the author of this list cites has been ripped completely out of context. As such, this is nothing more than a list of names the author points to as being one person who has yet to appear, even though the context of these passages and histories of these people show them either to be historical figures, or groups of people that oppose Christ (John 8:44).

In short, this list is nothing more than the result of twisting scripture out of context and contorting it to fit a doctrine that could not otherwise be supported without such silly semantic tricks.

For what it's worth.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Antichrist is not one Individual, but a Spirit that energizes many individuals..

 

[Sam21]

Around and around the bush but no one seems to see the bush. The attitude of antichrist has existed since the first century,however the bible is clear that there is coming an individual at the end of the age who is the representative of satan and he is called antichrist(John) son of perdition(Paul) little horn(Daniel) beast(Rev).
People are being so goofy on this one, if you do not like the word antichrist(commonly used) then chose one of the other three, there is coming an evil endtime anti Christ Ruler according to the bible.

 

[reba]

Around and around the bush but no one seems to see the bush. The attitude of antichrist has existed since the first century,however the bible is clear that there is coming an individual at the end of the age who is the representative of satan and he is called antichrist(John) son of perdition(Paul) little horn(Daniel) beast(Rev).
People are being so goofy on this one, if you do not like the word antichrist(commonly used) then chose one of the other three, there is coming an evil endtime anti Christ Ruler according to the bible.

Sam for me its not (if you dont like the word) it is all the junk theology that has been built around THAT word. It is used to incite, to sell, to make the messenger important. When i hear/read something that says The Revelation says antichrist this or that i doubt the rest of the messengers statement. The guy who God used to pen The Revelation ,John, did not use the term God has his reasons for not using it so why does man add it to Revelation....

 

[Stormcrow]

The guy who God used to pen The Revelation ,John, did not use the term God has his reasons for not using it so why does man add it to Revelation....

Agreed. One of the things that always bothered me about the future view of Revelation (I call it the "traditional evangelical view"; a view I once held) is the immediacy and urgency of John's letter to the churches: a letter which he began and ended with these words:

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:3 (NASB)

6 And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

7 "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

​

Either everything in the book was soon to take place from John's perspective (including "the Beast" of Revelation 13) or none of it is, as the entire book is "book-ended" by these words.

Therefore, if - as people allege - this Beast is also the so-called antichrist, then this antichrist has either already come and gone or he has not. And if he has not - if he is still to come at some point in the future - why did the Lord Himself tell John to write what he did in the verses cited above?

IMHO, the traditional evangelical view of Revelation either has to disregard the immediacy of Christ's words to John and the seven churches, or call Jesus Christ a liar.

I don't think either position is tenable.

 

[reba]

yup storm..

Doing the Bible search on the words "shortly" and "at hand". One will find the usage to be just as it we think of those words today...

"Honey your dinner is ready." "OK I'll be in shortly."

"At hand" we dont use so much today but the meaning is simple...