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Who is the God of this world?

And also grace preachers are very good to quote half verses

"Now there is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".......but they don't add "who walk not after flesh but after the Spirit"
 
jonahmano said:
And also grace preachers are very good to quote half verses

"Now there is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".......but they don't add "who walk not after flesh but after the Spirit"
Click to expand...
That's not a "qualifier", it's a "description"......... because someone intent upon being fleshly is not "in" Christ, in the first place.
 
Willie T said:
That's not a "qualifier", it's a "description"......... because someone intent upon being fleshly is not "in" Christ, in the first place.
Click to expand...

How do you say that it's not a qualifier? and what do you mean by "description"? Was not Paul talking to the Christians of Rome church?
 
Semantic confusion causes division. It is true that Christians do walk in the Spirit, but it is also true that we start out carnal and grow according to the renewing of the mind through the knowledge of God. Hence it can be seen as both a qualifier and a description. All good things are by grace, even obedience.
 
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Thanks everyone that commented in this thread and gave your opinions. God has revealed something to me since I made this thread. It explains why (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.)The only name I can call this is "connecting the dots".

I will do my best to explain connecting-the-dots as God revealed it to me.

Connecting the dots is a way of creating DRAMA. Jesus Christ does not create drama but PEACE.

If one bible says RULER of this world, and the KJV says PRINCE thats a difference. Who then is the KING? Jesus Christ, authority over all

Let me show you how this works

John 12:31 (KJV) "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
John 12:31 (ESV) "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out."

We can actually deduce from other scriptures that Satan is the God of this world. But the KJV is EXTREMELY careful not to "connect-the-dots" for you. Connecting the dots means going over the line. And that would not be freewill. Going over the line means giving place to the devil, and a drama point so you can run out an cause drama. Jesus gives Satan a fair shot to make his case.

Look at Revelation 1:5 (KJV) "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

Revelation 1:5 (ESV) "and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood"

= Jesus is higher than the kings of this Earth

The following bible verse is (different) (Edited, ToS 2.4, troling. Obadiah) in the NIV and ESV and the dots are connected.

1 John 5:19 KJV "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
1 John 5:19 ESV "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
1 John 5:19 NIV "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

But we see in 1 John 5:18 that the word wicked one is used.
1 John 5:18 KJV "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
1 John 5:18 ESV "We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."
1 John 5:18 NIV "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."

See there? You went from just lieth in wickedness like in filth (KJV), to, the whole world is under the control/power of the evil one. In the wrong hands this stuff is ammunition to folks that wish to use the word of God as a "device" to cause drama.

There is a positive righteous energy around the KJV (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.)
 
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jonahmano said:
And also grace preachers are very good to quote half verses

"Now there is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".......but they don't add "who walk not after flesh but after the Spirit"
Click to expand...

"who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" is not in the original manuscripts. KJV added it.

Rom 8:1~~Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
 
gr8grace3 said:
"who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" is not in the original manuscripts. KJV added it.

Rom 8:1~~Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
Click to expand...

What is the original manuscript or codex? And how do you know that exactly? You can quote to me world history but that means nothing to me. It all comes down to faith alone in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:2 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"

The KJV is available to me here, today, in my language. And the holy spirit's discernment has revealed to me the truth about the KJV VS the other bibles.
 
BigSodaExposer said:
Thanks everyone that commented in this thread and gave your opinions. God has revealed something to me since I made this thread. It explains why the KJV is the official word of God. The only name I can call this is "connecting the dots".

I will do my best to explain connecting-the-dots as God revealed it to me.

Connecting the dots is a way of creating DRAMA. Jesus Christ does not create drama but PEACE.

If one bible says RULER of this world, and the KJV says PRINCE thats a difference. Who then is the KING? Jesus Christ, authority over all

Let me show you how this works

John 12:31 (KJV) "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
John 12:31 (ESV) "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out."

We can actually deduce from other scriptures that Satan is the God of this world. But the KJV is EXTREMELY careful not to "connect-the-dots" for you. Connecting the dots means going over the line. And that would not be freewill. Going over the line means giving place to the devil, and a drama point so you can run out an cause drama. Jesus gives Satan a fair shot to make his case.

Look at Revelation 1:5 (KJV) "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

Revelation 1:5 (ESV) "and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood"

= Jesus is higher than the kings of this Earth

The following bible verse is (different) (Edited, ToS 2.4, troling. Obadiah) in the NIV and ESV and the dots are connected.

1 John 5:19 KJV "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
1 John 5:19 ESV "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
1 John 5:19 NIV "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

But we see in 1 John 5:18 that the word wicked one is used.
1 John 5:18 KJV "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
1 John 5:18 ESV "We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."
1 John 5:18 NIV "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."

See there? You went from just lieth in wickedness like in filth (KJV), to, the whole world is under the control/power of the evil one. In the wrong hands this stuff is ammunition to folks that wish to use the word of God as a "device" to cause drama.

There is a positive righteous energy around the KJV (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.)
Click to expand...

Something that might be helpful to you is to look at the language the scriptures were written in, the Hebrew and the Greek.
YLT
1Jn 5:18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
1Jn 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;
G4190 - Evil or wicked
ponēros
pon-ay-ros'
From a derivative of G4192; hurtful, that is, evil (properly in effect or influence, and thus differing from G2556, which refers rather to essential character, as well as from G4550, which indicates degeneracy from original virtue); figuratively calamitous; also (passively) ill, that is, diseased; but especially (morally) culpable, that is, derelict, vicious, facinorous; neuter

So the YLT, KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV are all correct.

How do we know that in 5:19 is "in the control of the evil one", because 5:18 says that those in Christ are not under the evil ones control but in contrast the world does lie in that evil. What evil is that, the evil caused by the evil one.
 
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BigSodaExposer said:
What is the original manuscript or codex? And how do you know that exactly? You can quote to me world history but that means nothing to me. It all comes down to faith alone in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:2 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"

The KJV is available to me here, today, in my language. And the holy spirit's discernment has revealed to me the truth about the KJV VS the other bibles.
Click to expand...
It is out there if you wanted to look.
 
gr8grace3 said:
"who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" is not in the original manuscripts. KJV added it.

Rom 8:1~~Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of ROM 8: 1 T/ord
oudeis 3762 neu adj nom s ------- nothing 1
ara 0686 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- therefore 2
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 3
katakrima 2631 neu ---- nom s noun--- condemnation 4
o 3588 mas artl dat p ------- the 5
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 6
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 7
insous 2424 mas ---- dat s noun--- Jesus 8
Click to expand...


Why should KJV add it?

First of all being a Christian you must understand that bible is not manipulated. As it is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through many people, (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.)
 
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jonahmano said:
Why should KJV add it?

First of all being a Christian you must understand that bible is not manipulated. As it is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through many people, (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.)
Click to expand...
I believe the KJV added it because in that era people were getting into legalism. Just My Opinion though.

Your dug in deeper than an Alabama tick. The information is out there if one day you desire to maybe,just maybe find out for yourself.

I have done it lots of times! Proving someone else wrong, I found out that it was me that was wrong.

Look into it and see what you come up with, I may be wrong.
 
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Deborah13 said:
Something that might be helpful to you is to look at the language the scriptures were written in, the Hebrew and the Greek.
YLT
1Jn 5:18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
1Jn 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;
G4190 - Evil or wicked
ponēros
pon-ay-ros'
From a derivative of G4192; hurtful, that is, evil (properly in effect or influence, and thus differing from G2556, which refers rather to essential character, as well as from G4550, which indicates degeneracy from original virtue); figuratively calamitous; also (passively) ill, that is, diseased; but especially (morally) culpable, that is, derelict, vicious, facinorous; neuter

So the YLT, KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV are all correct.

How do we know that in 5:19 is "in the control of the evil one", because 5:18 says that those in Christ are not under the evil ones control but in contrast the world does lie in that evil. What evil is that, the evil caused by the evil one.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. But it doesn't put the NIV over the KJV.
 
Deborah13 said:
Something that might be helpful to you is to look at the language the scriptures were written in, the Hebrew and the Greek.
YLT
1Jn 5:18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
1Jn 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;
G4190 - Evil or wicked
ponēros
pon-ay-ros'
From a derivative of G4192; hurtful, that is, evil (properly in effect or influence, and thus differing from G2556, which refers rather to essential character, as well as from G4550, which indicates degeneracy from original virtue); figuratively calamitous; also (passively) ill, that is, diseased; but especially (morally) culpable, that is, derelict, vicious, facinorous; neuter

So the YLT, KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV are all correct.

How do we know that in 5:19 is "in the control of the evil one", because 5:18 says that those in Christ are not under the evil ones control but in contrast the world does lie in that evil. What evil is that, the evil caused by the evil one.
Click to expand...
May I ask from what source is this information?
 
gr8grace3 said:
I believe the KJV added it because in that era people were getting into legalism. Just My Opinion though.

Your dug in deeper than an Alabama tick. The information is out there if one day you desire to maybe,just maybe find out for yourself.

I have done it lots of times! Proving someone else wrong, I found out that it was me that was wrong.

Look into it and see what you come up with, I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

You won't prove nothing to me concerning that. I know the truth. And I believe I know why its like this. (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.) That all who pick up a KJV can all look up the same scriptures and be on the same page. Would God want the confusion of two dozen different bibles?

When one looks at the alterations individually, it doesn't seem like a big deal. When one factors ALL of it in to the overall message and truth. The truth is obvious. Mathew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"


There is alot more to all this then just making a few words easier to understand. I think God purposefully has made it like this. Learning those new words mean growing the brain. I had no idea what the word iniquity or wroth meant till I read the KJV. It is important for brain development somehow is what I think.
 
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BigSodaExposer said:
You won't prove nothing to me concerning that. I know the truth. And I believe I know why its like this. (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.) That all who pick up a KJV can all look up the same scriptures and be on the same page. Would God want the confusion of two dozen different bibles?

When one looks at the alterations individually, it doesn't seem like a big deal. When one factors ALL of it in to the overall message and truth. The truth is obvious. Mathew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"


There is alot more to all this then just making a few words easier to understand. I think God purposefully has made it like this. Learning those new words mean growing the brain. I had no idea what the word iniquity or wroth meant till I read the KJV. It is important for brain development somehow is what I think.
Click to expand...

So what did everybody do for one thousand six hundred YEARS before the KJV came around?1600 years.
 
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BigSodaExposer said:
You won't prove nothing to me concerning that. I know the truth. And I believe I know why its like this. (Edited, Doctrinal statement: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs..." The KJV is not the original autographs. Obadiah.) That all who pick up a KJV can all look up the same scriptures and be on the same page. Would God want the confusion of two dozen different bibles?

When one looks at the alterations individually, it doesn't seem like a big deal. When one factors ALL of it in to the overall message and truth. The truth is obvious. Mathew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"


There is alot more to all this then just making a few words easier to understand. I think God purposefully has made it like this. Learning those new words mean growing the brain. I had no idea what the word iniquity or wroth meant till I read the KJV. It is important for brain development somehow is what I think.
Click to expand...
Thank you. That was one of the best chuckles of my day.
 
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Free said:
But you even say that "Jesus' kingdom has defeated Satan's kingdom." So what does that mean? Does it not mean that Satan is no longer ruling, no longer god of this world? Your position seems to not be very consistent. So much for being "pretty simple."
Click to expand...

The best illustration I ever heard was in reference to World War II. The key battle in the war was the initial invasion to setup a beachhead. When America successfully invaded and setup a beachhead in Normandy, everybody, including the Germans, knew it was only a matter of time before the Allied forces would defeat the enemy.
At the cross, Jesus has established a beachhead of victory over Satan and now it is only a matter of time before that victory is complete throughout the earth. Before the cross, there was no beachhead of victory over Satan for mankind.
 
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