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Who nailed Him ?

Randy said:
The great tribulation is a future event that will come upon the whole world. But in regard to Israel I do read a victory not defeat. That outcome didn't happen in AD70. Rev 11 is the last testimony before Gods judgments are poured out to the whole world. If anyone in the world which includes those living in Israel has any shred of faith they will believe. Rev 11:13 As for the rest of the world they will follow the beast.

As me and others have posted Jesus didn't state "Father forgive the Romans only for they know not what they do"

We now go in circles repeating the same things at one another. My take you are very much mistaken if you state the Jesus I know condemned Israel for the act of the cross. Its just the opposite. He wanted to save them all. But they wouldn't let Him. (freewill) Jesus wept.

Randy
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Jesus said Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies. That's not the whole world.

Jesus said said "father forgive them for they know not what they do" The only, the only people referred to right before and after that statement by Jesus are the Romans. The only party who didn't know what they were doing (i.e. they were just tools) was the Romans.

I find that people who are usually wrong on an issue talk passed the other side, rather than directly respond. Like, you haven't responded to this comment by Jesus, For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.

What do you think "did not recognize the time of your visitation" means?
 
The Apostle to the circumcision does certainly grill the Israelites for handing Christ over to be crucified.. and even mentions that Pilate was willing to let Him go.. but that they pleaded for a murderer and a thief to be released instead.. serious indeed !

But... he tells them that they did it in IGNORANCE.. it's right there in Acts 3...

The scriptures could not be more clear in teaching that Israel shall be saved in the end.. when the deliverer shall COME from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob.. in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.
 
Stormcrow said:
He did indeed come, and they did not recognize Him.
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God reveals Himself to whomever He pleases.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

If they did not see or perceive Him, it was by Divine Intention.

s
 
The Deliverer shall come from Sion..

Stormcrow said:
He did indeed come, and they did not recognize Him.
Click to expand...

The Apostle to the GENTILES has just completed three chapters (Rom 9-11) which deal specifically with the state of Israel... its government, its ordinances, its everything so to speak... even its judicial blindness as a nation for their rejection of Christ...

That is why Paul was raised up.. to bring the gospel of God's Son to the GENTILES...

The Apostle could not be more clear in his summarization of the entire matter.. it's plain as day, right here...

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

We could speak on these things for hours.. and there's one thing for sure.. ignoring this mystery does not result in anything good.. and Paul is writing in present 'living' tense to the church of God.. it's not like the word of God is a history lesson... even though it is perfectly that.. it's living and powerful and speaks in a very living and powerful way, right now.. to every member of His body.

The Deliverer COMING from Sion is exactly that.. His coming again in power and great glory.. even to turn ungodliness from Jacob.. the one who wrestled all night and in the morning of that DAY... the Son of righteousness rose upon him.. and Paul tells the church of God that the night is far spent.. and that the Day is at hand...

The Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.
 
Psalm 85:11
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.

Isaiah 45:8
Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Matthew 24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Gods PROMISES are as SURE as SURE can be, down to the last jot and tittle:

8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.


Expecting a FLOOD? A flood you say?


Let our God REIGN upon this earth and FLOOD it.


May HIS TRUTH spring from DUST MEN, the ground of the THIRSTY, drenched in HIS MERCY.


Those grapes are bigger than a man can carry.


s
 
BLINDNESS in part...

I believe BLINDNESS in part means that it's the governing body of Israel which rejected (and still does reject) Christ.. even unto this day... because any Israelite can be saved today simply by believing the gospel... and they'd become a member of the body of Christ.. the church of God..

Israel as a nation has been cut off from the root.. and that's Christ.. Paul tells us that Israel's blindness will be UNTIL the fulness of the GENTILES come in..

Paul is clearly speaking of the gospel going out to the GENTILES and that there is going to be a fulness of that... and that's the church of God, the body of Christ.. which He shall present to Himself as a glorious church..

The Lord also spoke of a different Gentile matter entirely... with respect to the city of the great King.. Jerusalem.. He said that it would be trodden down until the TIMES OF THE GENTILES be fulfilled... and here He was speaking of GOVERNMENT.. the Gentile dominion of the world.. and not only that.. satan being the god of it...

And that's all going to change when He comes.. because the kingdoms of this world shall then become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. in that DAY.. the Day of Jesus Christ.
 
Re: BLINDNESS in part...

Eventide said:
I believe BLINDNESS in part means that it's the governing body of Israel which rejected (and still does reject) Christ..even unto this day...
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Jews rejected Christ, not merely the "governing body" (which represents the Jews, anyway. So stop trying to deflect blame).

There are no Jews unto this day to reject Christ. Judea was judged in 70AD and the Jews faded into history with the other lost tribes of Israel.

because any Israelite can be saved today simply by believing the gospel...
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There are no more Israelites. There are no one who claims to be. For Talmudic Jews, which you confuse with Isrealites, A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism. Nothing there about being an Israelite. Nothing there that implies being Israelite, especially a descendant of Jacob.

Can you convert your family history?

Israel as a nation has been cut off from the root.. and that's Christ.. Paul tells us that Israel's blindness will be UNTIL the fulness of the GENTILES come in..
Click to expand...

This time period was completed in 70AD. At which time, the church was fully in the hands of the gentiles.
 
Stormcrow said:
Jesus and the apostles beg to differ.



Well then, Jesus must have been mistaken, too.


They *said to Him, "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons."

Jesus *said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God [Jerusalem] will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. When they sought to seize Him, they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet. Matthew 21:33-46 (NASB)

Now, for further reading, go to Revelation 5 and look at who's unsealing the scroll of judgment upon Jerusalem.
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Yes I read where God made a new covenant.

Which means:Those that worship God worship in Spirit and in Truth. A nation does not bring salvation to its people. In that manner the Kingdom was removed from an assigned nation. The Kingdom of God is within. Without Gods protection it was just a matter of time that those who were blind were overcome by their enemies. But Jesus didn't hold the act of the cross against Israel nor order its destruction.

“Sir,†the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.â€

21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.â€
 
Yes I read where God made a new covenant.
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Which has nothing to do with what I wrote or cited.

Did God judge Israel and Judah using Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon to do it?

Yes or no?

Is Jesus Christ God incarnate ("in the flesh?")

Yes or no?

Is God the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Yes or no?

Answer these and I'll show you further evidence of where you are wrong about this.
 
Randy said:
Yes I read where God made a new covenant.

Which means:Those that worship God worship in Spirit and in Truth. A nation does not bring salvation to its people. In that manner the Kingdom was removed from an assigned nation. The Kingdom of God is within. Without Gods protection it was just a matter of time that those who were blind were overcome by their enemies. But Jesus didn't hold the act of the cross against Israel nor order its destruction.

“Sir,†the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.â€

21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.â€
Click to expand...

But Jesus didn't hold the act of the cross against Israel nor order its destruction.

Sure?
2 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Click to expand...

Still sure?

3
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Click to expand...
 
Stormcrow said:
Which has nothing to do with what I wrote or cited.

Did God judge Israel and Judah using Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon to do it?

Yes or no?

Is Jesus Christ God incarnate ("in the flesh?")

Yes or no?

Is God the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Yes or no?

Answer these and I'll show you further evidence of where you are wrong about this.
Click to expand...

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Thats for you

Randy
 
Re: BLINDNESS in part...

Hammer said:
There are no Jews unto this day to reject Christ. Judea was judged in 70AD and the Jews faded into history with the other lost tribes of Israel.
Click to expand...

Have a look around. Denial never makes for good theology.
 
These 'nailing' or 'piercing' observations haven't been inserted here for 'contemplations' yet. The observations would be 'generally' accepted within Christiandom as a foretell of Christ, as all scriptures are in the O.T.

Psalm 22:
1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

[WHERE WERE THESE AT THE CROSS?]

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

And for those who understand that matters are not 'all' seen and defined in and by physical/external observations, you know, like blaming Jews, Romans, etc etc.

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Some will see not, but these will see.

s
 
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