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Who nailed Him ?

uh. you know i should do a thread on the yud but i will ask someone first on that.

now that it relates. when a sinner comes to christ he is restored to the "image of god" in jewish thought all men have something of god. christianity teaches the idea of original sin.jews dont. i believe in the later myself but i do believe that all men have a mared image of god which is what the yud idea alludes too.
 
uh. you know i should do a thread on the yud but i will ask someone first on that.

now that it relates. when a sinner comes to christ he is restored to the "image of god" in jewish thought all men have something of god. christianity teaches the idea of original sin.jews dont. i believe in the later myself but i do believe that all men have a mared image of god which is what the yud idea alludes too.

And they are right in that sight. Paul said the same as well. We all see only in part. A believer in Truth knows this to be a fact.

Paul was an excellent gamesman. He 'gamed' the spirit of slumber that was put upon the Jews constantly. Here for example. Paul did not say he 'used to be a Pharisee, but this:

Acts 23:6
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Paul was not LYING
. And the resistance parties, the spirit of slumber in those men SPRUNG into bickering immediately in an uproar.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

This 'war' tactic was commonly deployed in those led of His Spirit.

Stephen did no different when The Holy Spirit in him verbally ASSAILED the 'resistance' parties in those Jews who heard him. That is in fact to be expected in any who hold forth His Truth. They shall be shown and shall see the resistance party and The Holy Spirit engages those resistors.

It is not like we are 'witnessing' to just people in these matters.

s
 
Most Jews who are led to have an interest also know that the Spirit of God was 'in' Jews to speak His Words. Most accept this for the fact it was.

Do you mean some Jews in the Old Testament were inspired?

Paul had no issues in participation in their ceremonial activities. Though he may very well have seen same much differently then they.

Paul wasn't a Jew, but he said he "became as a Jew" to Jews to win them over. And, to any degree that Paul did take part in Jewish ceremonies, the Temple Age didn't fully end until 70AD, after Paul's death.
 
Do you mean some Jews in the Old Testament were inspired?

Psalm 82:6
I have said
, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Paul wasn't a Jew, but he said he "became as a Jew" to Jews to win them over. And, to any degree that Paul did take part in Jewish ceremonies, the Temple Age didn't fully end until 70AD, after Paul's death.

yawn

Acts 23:
6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee
 
uhm. no most churches wont allow the YUD to be taught. that is from the kaballah. while i may see that concept. its bit deeper then that way deeper.

the letter aleph.

your yud reaching via the vey to the YUD in the sky. by vav that means you reaching to god and god reaching to you. that can be by prayer. i would have to spend time on chabad to see if i got that right. vav is not like what we call a spirit but the idea that he moved on it and. speaking isnt really what i would say. every person has a vav. its also the light givent to us by god.

i think you dont get that they do see it differently then most churches. i know of no pastor , no rabbi even in messianic circles that teach that.even messianics dont like the kaballah. they know it but they dont teach it.

theres reason why i dont post much on it here. i have to filter it alot and it would confuse a great deal so i wont. only in pm or by phone have i discussed it. i have from time to time posted it openly, but even the then i stay away from the kaballah alot as that does get out there. i mainly touch the picto graphic stuff ie

i stand corrected with the aleph beit.,its aleph daleth for the name of god el shaddai.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_bet
 
uhm. no most churches wont allow the YUD to be taught. that is from the kaballah. while i may see that concept. its bit deeper then that way deeper.

I am rather fond of some sights given therein. They come somewhat close. They fall short in blaming the 'ego' or the man, as is common among many who do not perceive the spirit of slumber as something other than themselves.

s
 
uhm the caballah cant go out there and deny all that we know. i advise using caution to any person who studies it. i double check myself alot.

for instance the zohar in the talmud(that is where the caballah comes from but not the pictographs) says that it wasnt adam and eve but adam and lilith in the garden but that adam divorced lilith.hmm where in genesis that mentioned? remember while oral traditions can be of use as they are commentaries they arent inspired either. like us the jews do have some out there peeeps.
 
uhm the caballah cant go out there and deny all that we know. i advise using caution to any person who studies it. i double check myself alot.

for instance the zohar in the talmud(that is where the caballah comes from but not the pictographs) says that it wasnt adam and eve but adam and lilith in the garden but that adam divorced lilith.hmm where in genesis that mentioned? remember while oral traditions can be of use as they are commentaries they arent inspired either. like us the jews do have some out there peeeps.

Paul does a Perfect Job in defining these matters, and uses himself as an example.

Paul, even after salvation, shows us that 'evil is present' with him. But that it is NOT HIM.

What applied to Paul as Gods child in Word and Spirit had and continues to have a completely opposite effect with 'evil present' with us.

Therein Paul stood as a DIVIDED man, Divided by the Power of Christ in him from that which he admittedly still carried in his own flesh.

He did not try to 'save' or to 'change' evil present with him. He did not GRACE that working or claim it 'lawful.'

It is what it is and it is a remaining fact for us all to engage daily.

It is quite pointless to try and encompass that working with any blessing or understanding. And this plague of lack of sight remains upon most to this day and is in fact the 'source' of all disputes and partial sights. Even here. It can be witnessed anywhere on the street in anyone and in fact our present 'world' reels under that evil present within all.

s
 
uhm that isnt close to what the jews teach. no where near today. then i cant say as i dont have acess to those sages or the talmud.

the sin nature as you put it isnt taugh that way.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/131166/jewish/How-Sin-Started.htm
Why did Eve do it? Why does anyone mess up?
In truth, there is a certain nobleness to sin, something essential to our humanness that makes us more precious than the angels. As soon as any transactional relationship is set in place -- as in, "You do this, I will do that. If you don't do this, then..." -- our impulse is to break free. We are humans, there is a person inside, we want to relate as people. Not as what we do, but as who we are.
So it is with our spouse, with our children, with friends. We are always testing each other, testing to see just how deep this relationship extends. Testing to see: Are you interested in me as I know myself? Or are you interested in what you can get from me?
So, too, when it is a relationship with the Inner Mind of the Cosmos. We want to relate to Him from our inner being, from our humanness, not just from our behavior. Such was the test we put Him to when we built a golden calf. With that rebellion, we asked, "Even if we break these rules You gave, do You still love us then?"
Such was the test of Eve. With the story of Eve ends the story of G-d's creation -- His top-down management scheme -- and begins the story of humanity. The story for which He created the universe to begin with. The story of real, live people who succeed and fail and pick themselves up and succeed again. And whose lives are valuable for that alone.
If so, if sin is so beautiful, perhaps we should continue to sin?
No, because in the sin and separation there is only darkness and ugliness. In sin itself there is no beauty, but only in its resolution.
This is the other aspect to the story of Eve: Eve's loss. Her plunge into a world of madness and distorted roles, into exile. In particular, the loss of female supremacy.
Initially, it was most natural for man to follow woman. Read the story: If Eve was convinced to eat of the Tree of Knowledge through dialogue with a talking snake, what convinced Adam? Quite simply, nothing at all. As he himself admitted, "The woman you put here with me gave it to me and I ate!" If Eve told him to do something, Adam understood he was bound to listen. After all, hadn't she been put here by G-d as a "helpmate"? What else could that mean?
And so, writes Nachmanides, (the "Ramban," 1194-1270) the logical consequence: From now on, the roles would be reversed. Adam would dominate Eve. A curse, truly, for both of them -- for how much of a helpmate can you be when you are dominated?
Until Sarah. Sarah was the first, the Zohar says, to begin to heal the catastrophe of Eve. And so, G-d tells Abraham, "All that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice" (Genesis 21:12). And so it will be for all of us once the moshiach arrives: The feminine will once again dominate in the world, as it was in the garden before the fall.
This is what was missing in Eve's story: the resolution. In all the instances where her story reoccurs -- with her firstborn son, Cain; with the making of the golden calf; with David and Bathsheba; with the destruction of the Temple -- in all those sins and betrayals, the story continues and resolves. There is remorse, return and a deepening of the relationship. The contractual agreement is renewed -- but now with a deeper foundation, an intimate one based on the inner person and an Inner G-d.
But Eve's sin, the first separation from which all other fissures stem, remains unresolved. This is our job, to heal the chasm created by Eve, between body and spirit, woman and man, humankind and G-d. And so to create that inner relationship with the Divine, that relationship which Eve was desperately seeking.

not even close smaller.

this is close to you.


but neither believes that man is really bad. that isnt something any honest christian will say that is where i part with them.why? because with christ we are that evil we dont seek him , we are that wicked.

if you noticed the caballah was sited in both. the ramban quote i have read and yes he does say that in his book. that is the opposite of what the church teaches. the churches that man would be over the women, but i can see why they teach that due to the curse, but well that is a rabbit trail. besides if adam hadnt sinned nor eve we dont know which nature would be over. god split adam and made one side of him in eve feminine and the other masculine(adam) and when together they reflect god. that too me makes more sense.

but well that too is a rabit trail.
 
Paul wasn't a Jew, but he said he "became as a Jew" to Jews to win them over. And, to any degree that Paul did take part in Jewish ceremonies, the Temple Age didn't fully end until 70AD, after Paul's death.

yawn

Acts 23:
6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee

The definition of a Pharisee is a member of a jewish sect who believes in strict adherence to the letter of the law. Paul taught that Christians are not under the law. Paul was the complete opposite of a Pharisee.

Saul may have been a Pharisee, but not Paul.

I already give you the reason why Paul claimed to be a Jew (or a Pharisee) when he wasn't. So, it's completely pointless for you to quote Paul calling himself a Pharisee without addressing my argument, without addressing Paul's own explanation!

In fact, Paul gives an explanation that directly address his claim to being a Pharisee, when he wasn't one. I'll show it to you after you process what I've already said.
 
uhm that isnt close to what the jews teach. no where near today. then i cant say as i dont have acess to those sages or the talmud.

They will dance around just like everyone else does.

After all exactly NONE of us care to take this FACT of Jesus and see that this happened to the blinded of Israel or to ourselves:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Does that look like LILITH? What a joke.

Those who do not hear this matter for themselves simply DO NOT HEAR and they do not by that THIEF in their own hearts.

How many wanna raise their hand on that one?

Few.

the sin nature as you put it isnt taugh that way.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/131166/jewish/How-Sin-Started.htm


not even close smaller.

They teach it as all blind men do. They BLAME AND ACCUSE MEN which is the 'role' of the accuser in their own hearts just as the BLINDED of Israel did with Jesus.

s
 
The definition of a Pharisee is a member of a jewish sect who believes in strict adherence to the letter of the law. Paul taught that Christians are not under the law. Paul was the complete opposite of a Pharisee.

Saul may have been a Pharisee, but not Paul.

Paul made that statement POST salvation
.


So, Paul was telling the truth or lying? You decide.

I'll take his word to be a fact.

s
 
They will dance around just like everyone else does.

After all exactly NONE of us care to take this FACT of Jesus and see that this happened to the blinded of Israel or to ourselves:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Does that look like LILITH? What a joke.

Those who do not hear this matter for themselves simply DO NOT HEAR and they do not by that THIEF in their own hearts.

How many wanna raise their hand on that one?

Few.



They teach it as all blind men do. They BLAME AND ACCUSE MEN which is the 'role' of the accuser in their own hearts just as the BLINDED of Israel did with Jesus.

s


uhm while satan accuses , we also do until we sear it have some idea of what is right or wrong.

the yud is just that. that part in us that God put there so that we would know him. when i confess christ it was if his voice was there all along i just didnt listen.

the yud is the smallest of letters but its also the point that begins with God. all things on the earth have a yud.
 
well you said you didnt mind the caballah. so i posted what is wrong with it, and no they dont see nor say that. you agree with the idea of a yud and that we all have no original sin nature.


the church doesnt teach that today.
 
I thought the better of mentioning this 'til maybe some of the other controversy had died down.

Me, I think it's pretty clear that Roman governors, Idumean rulers, Judean Sanhedrin, and possibly even Pharisaic money-funders colluded to betray, then impose capital punishment, on Jesus.

That said, I've also read a view that the Gospels were actually distinguishing Judeans from Galileans, Samaritans, and indeed the Greek Jewish people in its terminology -- Judeans would then be the group essentially of "lower Israel", with its center in Jerusalem.
 
What's the definition of a Pharisee? Why do you not respond to to the arguments given you, you just repeat your same wrong dogma?

A Pharisee not a Jew? Please.

hammer said:
Paul wasn't a Jew

Acts 21:39

But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Acts 22:3

I am verily a man which am a Jew

I fail to see any point in trying to make these statements not so. How 'bout you?

s
 
It's very sad that you present claims I've already addressed, as if I hadn't said anything. Paul was not a Jew. Paul said he becomes as a Jew to win Jews. He also followed Pharisaical practices, even though he's not a Pharisee because he didn't believe he was under the law, so that he can win converts. (The relevant definition you missed is that a Pharisee is someone who believes himself to be under the law.)

When he called himself a Jew, it wasn't a lie because others knew he was a Christian. An ex-President of the US is still called a President. Paul was an ex-Pharisee who called himself a Pharisee to win Pharisees by relating to them.

But, you just sit there and parrot "I'm a Jew" without any regard to what Paul meant or what I've explained to you. You have too much bad theology resting on your belief that Paul was a Jew for you to even consider what I'm telling you.

(Another point, Jesus and the Apostles believed that all Christians are Jews, true Jews. While the so-called Jews aren't Jews. A true Jew is the spiritual seed of Abraham through Christ, not the natural seed let alone a Talmudic Jew.)


A Pharisee not a Jew? Please.



Acts 21:39

But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Acts 22:3

I am verily a man which am a Jew

I fail to see any point in trying to make these statements not so. How 'bout you?

s
 
smaller,

You and your bad theology. Shame on you. lol

Philippians 3:1-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

All for Christ

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[a] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;


- Davies
 
It's very sad that you present claims I've already addressed, as if I hadn't said anything. Paul was not a Jew. Paul said he becomes as a Jew to win Jews. He also followed Pharisaical practices, even though he's not a Pharisee because he didn't believe he was under the law, so that he can win converts. (The relevant definition you missed is that a Pharisee is someone who believes himself to be under the law.)

When he called himself a Jew, it wasn't a lie because others knew he was a Christian. An ex-President of the US is still called a President. Paul was an ex-Pharisee who called himself a Pharisee to win Pharisees by relating to them.

I fail to see the benefit of such tail chasing.

But, you just sit there and parrot "I'm a Jew" without any regard to what Paul meant or what I've explained to you. You have too much bad theology resting on your belief that Paul was a Jew for you to even consider what I'm telling you.
We know you don't like Jews so I understand why you try such nonsense.

It takes ZERO belief to read Paul stating "I am a JEW." That needs ZERO interpretation nor is Paul's statement of fact changed by my supposed 'bad theology.'

If ever there was an inane and pointless claim it would be your bold statement above.
(Another point, Jesus and the Apostles believed that all Christians are Jews, true Jews. While the so-called Jews aren't Jews. A true Jew is the spiritual seed of Abraham through Christ, not the natural seed let alone a Talmudic Jew.)
Oh please. We know there are spiritual Jews and there are fleshly Jews.

Tail chasing. Fun til you catch and bite same.

Paul was not a Jew, but all christians are Jews and Paul was a christian.

Gotta love the net for entertainment value.

Getting back to the point of this thread NO unbelieving Jew was alone in flesh or in mind.

The spirit of slumber, the god of this world blinded the minds of them.

Was it just 'flesh men' that were involved, whether Roman or Jew?

No. The spirit of disobedience, the spirit of slumber, the god of this world was also involved, as were the intentions of God from the beginning.


So whether Paul was a Jew or not or a spiritual Jew doesn't change the original observation. Most have 'bad theology' because they don't get the basic constructs of MAN on the table, preferring only to bask in the sunshine of His Love unto themselves and to denigrate and deride nearly all others. It's really a disease that infected mankind from day 1.

It's called sin, which same every one of the participants had save God in Christ and of course SIN is OF THE DEVIL.

However this subject is sliced, it's hard to view them apart from facts.

In the light of Gods Intimate Involvement with His Own creation, in the fact that adverse and various dark powers assuredly are loosed upon this present world, it will have to be for some the Greater Power as the 'First Cause' at a minimum for all things, and for me I can't logically extract God from involvement in anything, good or bad. I even look to God as involved in some of the idiotic conversations that go on here like Paul not being a Jew, but being a Jew.

And there are reasons that is so.

God in this present life constantly maintains a relationship of HATRED with the powers of darkness that ALL men are presently subject to, and yes, inclusive of believers who are also 'carriers.'

We all LUV the good things of God. It becomes much more problematic when we take an honest look, PERSONALLY, at the way our Maker put us all together.

The same sins in the people that were implicated in the death of Jesus on the cross are the same sins that every poster here also carries.

Some 'preachers' like to blame their flocks for killing Jesus, you know, lay the guilt on. It was in fact the demonic impositions that operate in man that killed Jesus. He gave His Life to show us forgiveness, mercy, love, faith, grace, judgment and hope via the exposure to those operating powers that we are all presently immersed in.

The death of Jesus on the cross is the basis of eternal judgment, to put away every worker of iniquity and powers of darkness.

THEY HATED HIM WITHOUT A CAUSE. Therefore the righteous judgment of God shall reign down upon them all.

s
 
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