Bible Study Who Told you, When you Die you go to Heaven?

[Eugene]

Jesus still on Earth (first heaven) and talking to Mary, and where is the thief? Still in the grave into this day!

So is the body of Moses, but what is it that Peter, James, and John his brother saw in Mt 17:3 concerning Moses and Elias talking with Jesus?

 

[Jim Parker]

Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave. Why does he continue to say "under the sun"? He's said it twice. We will find out a little later.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.

If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does

the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.

I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (Mat 22:32 ‘)

 

[brujaq]

When Jesus said that some standing there would see the kingdom come, was he talking about the Transfiguration ? I think maybe it was the start ..

I do not believe we are to commune with the dead and I think all the NT saints/born again sleep in their graves awaiting the second coming and our bodily resurrection .. An Ossuary was found in Jerusalem containing bones marked Simon Bar Jonas and a few others in the 50's, He awaits bodily resurrection while he sleeps imo .. But the OT saints who come out of their graves, did they enter back in ? I don't know .. My opinion about the thief on the cross is only my opinion but Jesus stated he would be with him that day ..The witch of Endor supposedly conjured up the spirit of Samuel but I think it may have been a fake spirit and probably not him at all imo 1 Samuel 28:13-15.. Jesus is the first to resurrect and ascend to heaven, he is God .. This is the church Luke 21:25-28 Matthew 24:29-31 and another 144,000 are sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel .. I have no problem with all the OT saints sleeping while waiting with us for the second coming or if there was a first coming for them before the NT church age ..

 

[Free]

This is a future vision Jesus showing the apostles...Lets go into Matthew 17: 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. No prophets in heaven, all till in the grave.

On what basis, precisely, can you claim that this was a vision of the future, because you haven’t given one?

Looking at the context:

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.
Mat 17:4 And Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah."
Mat 17:5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."
Mat 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified.
Mat 17:7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, "Rise, and have no fear."
Mat 17:8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
Mat 17:9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, "Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead." (ESV)

Everything there happened at that point in time. Jesus’s telling the disciples not to say anything about it all until his resurrection in no way whatsoever means that the event was speaking of something future. That would make no sense.

We also have the following:

Mat 22:31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:
Mat 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living." (ESV)

That last statement cannot be true if Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were not alive.

 

[Apousía]

I'd be more concerned about the fact that " in heaven " in Greek uses a primary preposition denoting time / place / state ( of a thing )

In Greek, " in " is

εν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest

Reading " in heaven " ( In Greek ) and thinking heaven is a destination removed from Earth is akin to reading the English phrase:

" he's in trouble " and interpreting it to mean that " trouble " is a place " he " is " in ", when in fact it is the state ( of the situation )

If you just took a bubble bath, and exclaimed " I'm in heaven ", it would be a fine example of the misunderstanding of idiomatic speech in Greek

 

[Cygnus]

When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven?

It may not happen in the way you presented it but,
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (2nd Cor 5:8)

Isn't the Lord currently in the 3rd heaven?

 

[Bro.Tan]

On what basis, precisely, can you claim that this was a vision of the future, because you haven’t given one?

Looking at the context:

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.
Mat 17:4 And Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah."
Mat 17:5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."
Mat 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified.
Mat 17:7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, "Rise, and have no fear."
Mat 17:8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
Mat 17:9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, "Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead." (ESV)

Everything there happened at that point in time. Jesus’s telling the disciples not to say anything about it all until his resurrection in no way whatsoever means that the event was speaking of something future. That would make no sense.

We also have the following:

Mat 22:31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:
Mat 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living." (ESV)

That last statement cannot be true if Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were not alive.

Jesus says in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[reba]

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A forum for Bible study discussions.
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Reba,

do go to arguing ... it will result in removal or thread closing..

State your opinions hopefully with scripture back up... maybe even a time or two but dont go to the ARGUING
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[for_his_glory]

God breathed life (spirit) into us, Genesis 2:7, that made us a living soul and what goes back to God when this physical body dies (returns to the dust of the ground) is that very spirit of life God gave us, Ecclesiastics 12:7. Only those of faith under the old covenant (OT) and those of faith under the new covenant through Christ Jesus (NT) will God take that spirit back and reserve it until Christ returns. At that time we are raised with a new glorified body, 1Corintians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, and then we are given back that spirit of life to have everlasting life with the Father.

According to John 3:13 no one has ever ascended into heaven other than Christ. Scripture says we sleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. Those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life will be raised to everlasting life with God and those who names are not found will face Gods Great White Throne Judgment and will be cast into the lake of fire, Revelations 20:11-15.

 

[for_his_glory]

Enoch, Moses and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach that when they were seen (not Enoch) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 says we who have died are only asleep unto the coming of the Lord in the clouds and those who are asleep before us who are still alive will be taken up first and we who are alive will meet them in the clouds. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
(Does not say where God took him)

Heb 11:5 by faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.

2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere)

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him saying:
Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong, 2 Chronicles 21:12

 

[Kidron]

Who told us that we as Christians will be in Heaven after we die?
The Judgement seat of Christ.
The Great White Throne Judgment.

And then, Jesus and Paul both said we would be in heaven.
As a matter of fact we as believers, born again, are CURRENTLY seated in Heavenly Places in Christ.
And Paul told you that "to be absent from the Body, is to be present with the Lord".
And where is the Lord?
Right.

 

[Bro.Tan]

Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.

Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.

2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.

Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth.

Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about. Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

 

[Jim Parker]

Preachers are misleading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth. When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

2Co 5:6-8 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

That says that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord.
I assume that means believers only.
Being present with the Lord would be what we refer to as "heaven."

iakov the fool

 

[1Genesis]

'Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?" Acts 7:49

"and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

 

[Bro.Tan]

2Co 5:6-8 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

That says that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord.
I assume that means believers only.
Being present with the Lord would be what we refer to as "heaven."

iakov the fool

That verse is talking about the mind, not actually the person. Lets go tin 1 Thessalonian 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpof God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So the Lord is coming down and those who asleep or still alive at the coming of the Lord are ascending to meet the Lord in the clouds. Now if people were up in heaven with the Lord then they should be all descending.

 

[Jim Parker]

That verse is talking about the mind, not actually the person.

On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?

Lets go tin 1 Thessalonian 4: 13

No. lets not. Let's stay in context which is 2 Corinthians. Paul stated that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (for believers)

1 Thessalonian 4 is about the resurrection of the Body. It says nothing about any part of the person being being away from the body.In fact, nowhere does Paul say anything about the mind traveling outside the body.

Paul does not separate out the mind as a separate part of of the person. HE describes the person as being spirit, soul and body.
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now if people were up in heaven with the Lord then they should be all descending.

Some people's souls are already in heaven right now.

Rev 6:9-11 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus describes the condition of the rich man who died and was buried and, while buried, he was also experiencing the torment of fire in Hades. So, his body was in the grave and his soul was in Hades. (Luke 16:19:31)
That is what Paul is talking about; being absent from the body but present with Christ indicates that the body is dead and the soul is with Christ.


iakov the fool

 

[Bro.Tan]

On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?

No. lets not. Let's stay in context which is 2 Corinthians. Paul stated that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (for believers)

1 Thessalonian 4 is about the resurrection of the Body. It says nothing about any part of the person being being away from the body.In fact, nowhere does Paul say anything about the mind traveling outside the body.

Paul does not separate out the mind as a separate part of of the person. HE describes the person as being spirit, soul and body.
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Some people's souls are already in heaven right now.

Rev 6:9-11 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus describes the condition of the rich man who died and was buried and, while buried, he was also experiencing the torment of fire in Hades. So, his body was in the grave and his soul was in Hades. (Luke 16:19:31)
That is what Paul is talking about; being absent from the body but present with Christ indicates that the body is dead and the soul is with Christ.


iakov the fool

Let's go into Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job is telling us everyone that is dead is still dead until the second coming of the Lord.

Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about. Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.


You reading events that haven't happened yet, that's prophesy. Those are vision in Revelation 6 and in Luke 16. Future...Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. They were given white robes. What does this mean? Let's let the Book tell us.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

[Jim Parker]

Let's go into Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job is telling us everyone that is dead is still dead until the second coming of the Lord.

Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about. Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.


You reading events that haven't happened yet, that's prophesy. Those are vision in Revelation 6 and in Luke 16. Future...Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. They were given white robes. What does this mean? Let's let the Book tell us.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Please answer the questions I asked edited reba

On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?

 

[Bro.Tan]

Please answer the questions I asked edited reba

On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?

Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page.

Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

 

[Jim Parker]

Let's find another witness.

You haven't answered the first questions I asked.
I would like to understand your perspective.
At your post 35 you said, "That verse (2Co 5:6-8) is talking about the mind, not actually the person."
So, please, before we look at other scripture, answer the questions I posed.
On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?
Thank you.