Bible Study Who Told you, When you Die you go to Heaven?

[Bro.Tan]

You haven't answered the first questions I asked.
I would like to understand your perspective.
At your post 35 you said, "That verse (2Co 5:6-8) is talking about the mind, not actually the person."
So, please, before we look at other scripture, answer the questions I posed.
On what scriptural evidence do you base that opinion?
Are you saying that, when someone dies, their mind goes to be with Christ?
If not, then what are you saying?
What do you mean by "person"?
Thank you.

2 Corinthians 5: 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: Paul is saying Jesus in Heaven and we on earth. For example: When Parents takes trips out of town and leave their children at home with instruction to follow.

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight The Apostles had the opportunity to walk in faith and in Jesus sight, but we don't. But we have both testaments to read and to follow.

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Paul is talking about being spiritual minded. The only way one can walk in the spirit is, if one walk in the law. Paul said in Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. This is how you become present with God.

Jesus will return real soon and reward us all according to our works (Revelation 22:12). Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but continue to strive for the prize (Philippians 3:13-14).

The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments. The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15).

You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is HOLY, JUST AND GOOD (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[Bro.Tan]

OK.
You are not going to answer the questions I asked.
Got it.
You have a nice day.
Bye.

I thought I did, my apology.

 

[Jim Parker]

I thought I did, my apology.

No, you just quoted a lot of scripture but gave no direct answers.
Since people have different understanding of what a particular passage is telling us, it is impossible to discern what meaning you are attaching to them.
That requires a response like; "By "mind", I mean...."

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd be more concerned about the fact that " in heaven " in Greek uses a primary preposition denoting time / place / state ( of a thing )

In Greek, " in " is

εν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest

Reading " in heaven " ( In Greek ) and thinking heaven is a destination removed from Earth is akin to reading the English phrase:

" he's in trouble " and interpreting it to mean that " trouble " is a place " he " is " in ", when in fact it is the state ( of the situation )

If you just took a bubble bath, and exclaimed " I'm in heaven ", it would be a fine example of the misunderstanding of idiomatic speech in Greek

You've said this before.

I dont understand.....
Who here has said that heaven is a real place?
It most probably is a dimension, as you've stated.
But to the person's there...it would feel like a place.
Where was Paul taken?
2 Corinthians 12:1-6 ?
Surely to him it was a real place.

 

[GodsGrace]

That verse is talking about the mind, not actually the person. Lets go tin 1 Thessalonian 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpof God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So the Lord is coming down and those who asleep or still alive at the coming of the Lord are ascending to meet the Lord in the clouds. Now if people were up in heaven with the Lord then they should be all descending.

What do you mean by the mind?
To you is the mind a part of the ...
Body
Soul
Spirit
?

Also, I believe you're confusing what happens immediately upon death when our soul, and spirit, go to be with God,,,and the physical resurrection at the end of time.

2 Corinthians 5:8b
As opposed to
1 Corinthians 15:42

 

[Bro.Tan]

You've now arrived here I see.

You're a Buddhist as I recall from your engagement with other Christians in forums across the net. You seek to use the scriptures to show they're false while you interject subtly without textual references per say to Gautama's teachings, that are about Buddhism which you believe is superior.

Bro.Tan Post history Google

I pray the moderators here inquire further of your motives.
Buddha is in Hell. Be warned of that. Don't be complicit in teaching the lies that led to that.

Never heard that one before, but in the scriptures its written in Proverbs 15: 14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.

 

[Bro.Tan]

What do you mean by the mind?
To you is the mind a part of the ...
Body
Soul
Spirit
?

Also, I believe you're confusing what happens immediately upon death when our soul, and spirit, go to be with God,,,and the physical resurrection at the end of time.

2 Corinthians 5:8b
As opposed to
1 Corinthians 15:42

What do you mean by the mind?
To you is the mind a part of the ...

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. The bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). Another words we do the thing Jesus did as being whom we follow, and if do those things we have the same mind as christ. Jesus said in Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Also, I believe you're confusing what happens immediately upon death when our soul, and spirit, go to be with God,,,and the physical resurrection at the end of time.

2 Corinthians 5:8b
As opposed to
1 Corinthians 15:42

I'm not confuse, its just you having to understand, that we can not take the word of God from the old testament using Paul writing. Lets go into Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page.

Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

2Corinthians 5:8 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Focus on both verses together, not just verse 8. We not up there where the Lord is, nor is the Lord down here with us now, so we are absent from him, but not our mind. Plus you have to understand when is the first resurrection is...Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice Paul say...then we which are alive and remain, cause some people (saints) will still be alive at the coming of Jesus. So...now, the dead and or the saints thats still alive and didn't die, will meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds. We also read that the Lord will descend, which means the Lord is coming down. The dead is in the grave, so they will be coming from the earth. Lets go into Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's always good to read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation over and over again. I hope this helps.

 

[Bro.Tan]

You've said this before.

I dont understand.....
Who here has said that heaven is a real place?
It most probably is a dimension, as you've stated.
But to the person's there...it would feel like a place.
Where was Paul taken?
2 Corinthians 12:1-6 ?
Surely to him it was a real place.

There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds, even space. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. This verse clear states that the earth also is one of those three heaven.

Now lets break some of these heaven up and get some understanding. Lets stay in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. So, now we see that when we look up at the sun, moon and stars, that consider heaven. All nation under the whole heaven is talking about earth, because we know refers to people.

Let take another look at an example of the first heaven which is earth. Deuteronomy 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: Lets take a look at the Third heaven.

Lets go into 2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. The understand I got out of the third heaven is this...Lets go into Matthew 6:
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. So the kingdom thats coming down, which is Jesus, he will make this earth as it is in Heaven. Lets go into Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city weregarnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

This maybe the best example of the Third Heaven. Hope this helps.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds, even space. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. This verse clear states that the earth also is one of those three heaven.

Now lets break some of these heaven up and get some understanding. Lets stay in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. So, now we see that when we look up at the sun, moon and stars, that consider heaven. All nation under the whole heaven is talking about earth, because we know refers to people.

Let take another look at an example of the first heaven which is earth. Deuteronomy 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: Lets take a look at the Third heaven.

Lets go into 2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. The understand I got out of the third heaven is this...Lets go into Matthew 6:
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. So the kingdom thats coming down, which is Jesus, he will make this earth as it is in Heaven. Lets go into Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city weregarnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

This maybe the best example of the Third Heaven. Hope this helps.

Why do you keep saying. "hope this helps". ??
Are you a theologian?

Will answer you from home...

 

[reba]

Bro.Tan The Word given to Paul from our Lord does not contradict the OT...

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Terms of Service

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purposely distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated.

Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of sexual sin and/or homosexual behavior. Do not make statements either by posts or posting URLs to other Websites which advocate activities, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by the christianforums.net Leadership's sole discretion.

 

[Bro.Tan]

I do not if you are Buddhist, Hindu or some other manure religion but you are wrong! The Bible is divided into two groups of scripture for a reason. The Bible that Jesus and the twelve, including Paul taught from are included in the Old Testament, the 26 remaining are the Life Application Commentaries, the only such texts commissioned by God for this purpose.

You are guilty of preaching another gospel by raping the scriptures. You cannot rip one verse and another, yet still two from over here and make up your own Theology, customized to fit your desires.

The Rule of Hermeneutics demands you allow the Light of All Scripture shine upon any scripture, passage of scriptures or collection of scriptures to gain the wisdom it contains.

Bro.Tan The Word given to Paul from our Lord does not contradict the OT...

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Terms of Service

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purposely distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated.

Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of sexual sin and/or homosexual behavior. Do not make statements either by posts or posting URLs to other Websites which advocate activities, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by the christianforums.net Leadership's sole discretion.

I'm confuse, can you please show me what I post wrong?

 

[Bro.Tan]

I looked him up and he is a Buddhist Teachers that is proselytizing. He is wrapped up tightly in Satan, sad.

Why are you lying on me. Show me where you look me up and saw that I am a buddhist.

I do not if you are Buddhist, Hindu or some other manure religion but you are wrong! The Bible is divided into two groups of scripture for a reason. The Bible that Jesus and the twelve, including Paul taught from are included in the Old Testament, the 26 remaining are the Life Application Commentaries, the only such texts commissioned by God for this purpose.

You are guilty of preaching another gospel by raping the scriptures. You cannot rip one verse and another, yet still two from over here and make up your own Theology, customized to fit your desires.

The Rule of Hermeneutics demands you allow the Light of All Scripture shine upon any scripture, passage of scriptures or collection of scriptures to gain the wisdom it contains.

That's all Bible I quoted. Do you even read the Bible a all? You just post accusation?

Why do you keep saying. "hope this helps". ??
Are you a theologian?

Will answer you from home...

NO. I'm a Bible Christian. I teach the uncut word of God.

 

[Bro.Tan]

Bro.Tan The Word given to Paul from our Lord does not contradict the OT...

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Terms of Service

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purposely distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated.

Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of sexual sin and/or homosexual behavior. Do not make statements either by posts or posting URLs to other Websites which advocate activities, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by the christianforums.net Leadership's sole discretion.

I'm confuse, can you please show me what I post wrong?

 

[reba]

I'm not confuse, its just you having to understand, that we can not take the word of God from the old testament using Paul writing.

How about explaining this quote

Is English your first language? Some times thoughts get distorted intranslation

 

[Bro.Tan]

How about explaining this quote

Is English your first language? Some times thoughts get distorted intranslation

God had Peter to warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

All I was explaining is that Paul was saying something different then the Prophet David, I was quoting. Sometime Paul writing can be confusing, but when we read in other areas in the Bible we see Paul was saying something different. The person post a verse that look like people was in heaven that Paul said, so I post another verse of Paul show the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 show when the Lord will raise the dead and those who are still alive from the earth, so they couldn't be in heaven with him. Because the Lord is coming down and the dead is coming up.


This is what I quoted at first which started the whole thing...

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page.

Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

 

[Runner]

Wow, I'm agog at the vitriol being spewed at Bro.Tan on this thread. A Buddhist troll? A Heathen? Really? I thought questioning someone else's Christianity was the ultimate no-no.

This thread may have veered off track to the point that it belongs on one of the debate forums (Theology?), but I've read all of Bro.Tan's posts on this thread and find them remarkably lucid even if I don't agree with them. It would never have occurred to me for a moment to question his Christianity, his sincerity or his English-language skills. Compared to many posts on these forums, his sound like a Harvard graduate's - but the posts of those with whom we agree, or who agree with us, are never attacked at the level of questioning the poster's Christianity or language skills.

Martin Luther once taught that the condition between death and the resurrection is “a deep and dreamless sleep without consciousness and feeling” (Althaus, 414-416). Some churches more mainstream than the Jehovah's Witnesses have likewise believed this or something close to it. I don't believe it for a variety of reasons, but it should hardly receive the foaming-at-the-mouth response Bro.Tan is receiving here.

As to what Bro.Tan meant by his cryptic statement about Paul, I understood him to mean that you have to look to what the OT says, not to what Paul says the OT says. But whatever he meant, I think any offense he has committed (if any) is trumped by the way he has been treated here. (I gave you your very first "Likes," Bro.Tan, simply for the thought and effort that went into your first two posts.)

 

[reba]

Do a internet search for Bro Tan... and you can find most anything... There is a bro tan that is SDA one that is Buddhist even a tanktop..
Labeling a guy we/you dont understand is not a good thing..I agree Runner .
I am not 'getting" what he is saying... I hope to gain some understanding...

 

[Runner]

Do a internet search for Bro Tan... and you can find most anything... There is a bro tan that is SDA one that is Buddhist even a tanktop..
Labeling a guy we/you dont understand is not a good thing..I agree Runner .
I am not 'getting" what he is saying... I hope to gain some understanding...

Try Googling "Runner." Unless it's a golf forum, it isn't me. I've actually done it and been aghast at some of what my fellow "Runners" post.

 

[Jim Parker]

OFF TOPIC

 

[Runner]

Identifying a person who is preaching heresy is not "vitriol." It is identifying lies.

You seem to specialize in the straw man fallacy - mischaracterizing what a person has actually said in order to give yourself a convenient target. My statement about "vitriol" very clearly referred to calling Bro.Tan a Buddhist troll and a Heathen and questioning his Christianity in clear violation of the terms of the site.

Neither you nor I is the arbiter of what constitutes heresy or should be disallowed on this site. What Bro.Tan is urging does appear to be the SDA understanding of the afterlife. The SDA are not uncontroversial, but (to quote the Wikipedia article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Criticism):

While critics such as Hoekema have classified Adventism as a sectarian group on the basis of its atypical doctrines, it has been accepted as more mainstream by Protestant evangelicals since its meetings and discussions with evangelicals in the 1950s. Notably, Billy Graham invited Adventists to be part of his crusades after Eternity, a conservative Christian magazine edited by Donald Barnhouse, asserted in 1956 that Adventists are Christians, and also later stated, "They are sound on the great New Testament doctrines including grace and redemption through the vicarious offering of Jesus Christ 'once for all'". Walter Martin, who is considered by many to be the father of the counter-cult apologetics movement within evangelicalism, authored The Truth About Seventh-day Adventists (1960) which marked a turning point in the way Adventism was viewed: "... it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and be a true follower of Jesus Christ despite heterodox concepts ..." - Walter Martin, Kingdom of the Cults.
​

I don't know or care squat about the doctrines of the SDA, but it seems to me that Bro.Tan is presenting a lucid, Bible-based position regarding the afterlife that can be addressed on its own terms. The fact that you believe you have a solider understanding of this particular doctrine is your opportunity to present the Biblical truths as you understand them. Squawking about heresy and suggesting Bro.Tan's posts are so contrary to the "basic tenets of the faith" that he should be held in violation of the TOS is the sort of approach that suggests to me weakness rather than strength - and frankly, your latest posts on this thread do strike me as a bit "vitriolic."