Who were the 144,000

[Paul River]

I read the first verse . " Four corners of earth "
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

John sees the angels at the 4 corners of the earth because he is in Heaven! The dialogue that then transpires between these angels at the 4 corners of the earth and the angel that commanded them was clearly in Heaven because the angel that had commanded them ascended from the rising of the sun or the east side of the earth. Where did he ascend from? From the earth! Where did he ascend to? To Heaven!

God's wrath on earth . Unless you have God's wrath taking place in heaven

It is because the 144,000 will appear with the Lamb on Mt Zion in Rev 14:1 where they then carry out their only Biblically defined ministry - Worship.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

So now you admit they do witness for God . The seal of God is for protection and it has to come before their work starts just like we are told in the first 8 verses in Revelation 7 .

This seal of God is given to them after Christ comes in revelation 6.

They are not sent to preach in Israel after Christ comes.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

They are sealed so they can work here on this earth . Being "sealed " is for protection .
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The people who Jesus sends to work are murdered while they are working.

These 144000 are sealed after the work is done.Work is already finished in revelation 7.

 

[hawkman]

John sees the angels at the 4 corners of the earth because he is in Heaven!

Where are we told John is ? We are told in Revelation 4:2 , John was "in the spirit " , that is where John Is at .

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Have you Paul River ever been "in the spirit" ?

 

[hawkman]

The people who Jesus sends to work are murdered while they are working.

The 144,000 , yes I suspect so . The seal of God protects them from the "hurt" God sends .

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

These 144000 are sealed after the work is done.

Before the 1444,000 are sealed they have been living on earth and that is where the "hurt" is to come , "hurt" is to come on the earth , the sea and the trees . God's seal is to protect them from the "hurt" God is sending .

Work is already finished in revelation 7.

Not till verse 7:9 is their work finished . We are told the beginning and the end in chapter 7 but not the extent of their service .

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The 144,000 , yes I suspect so . The seal of God protects them from the "hurt" God sends .

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Before the 1444,000 are sealed they have been living on earth and that is where the "hurt" is to come , "hurt" is to come on the earth , the sea and the trees . God's seal is to protect them from the "hurt" God is sending .

Not till verse 7:9 is their work finished . We are told the beginning and the end in chapter 7 but not the extent of their service .

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The hurt that is falling on the earth is the wrath of the lamb.All of those people who are hiding in the caves of the mountains which they fled to can testify to that.

The 144000 are not sent to preach after the lamb has come in revelation 6.

The great multitude that comes out of the nations are christians in those countries. They hear the gospel from the bible just like us.

 

[hawkman]

The hurt that is falling on the earth is the wrath of the lamb.All of those people who are hiding in the caves of the mountains which they fled to can testify to that.

The 144000 are not sent to preach after the lamb has come in revelation 6.

The "hurt" comes in chapter 8 after the 144,000 are sealed . Notice in the following verses what is harmed , the earth , the trees and the sea . Rev8:7-8

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

The 144,000 were sealed to protect from these very things . Back to Rev7 for the proof of what I say .

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The "hurt" comes in chapter 8 after the 144,000 are sealed . Notice in the following verses what is harmed , the earth , the trees and the sea . Rev8:7-8

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

The 144,000 were sealed to protect from these very things . Back to Rev7 for the proof of what I say .

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

So you believe the stars of heaven falling to the earth,the great earthquake and the heavens departing from the earth doesn't hurt anything?

The wrath of the lamb of God takes place in revelation 6 while men are hiding under the earth.


The 144000 are sealed before the fallout from the heavens.

 

[Paul River]

Where are we told John is ? We are told in Revelation 4:2 , John was "in the spirit " , that is where John Is at .
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Have you Paul River ever been "in the spirit" ?

Yes, I have been transported "in the spirit"

 

[hawkman]

Where does it say they are being sealed in heaven ?
The 144,000 are being sealed while they are on earth for protection while they remain on earth . To preach to the world .

My thoughts are the 144,000 are on earth when they are sealed as I said above . But our problem appears to be John's location during The Book of Revelation . And we are told John is "in the spirit " having a vision on the Isle of Patmos .

Well, we know the narrator John is in Heaven - Rev 4:1

John is having a vision seeing what is going on in heaven and all the other places yet to be spoken about in Revelation .
Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

John sees the angels at the 4 corners of the earth because he is in Heaven!

It is not necessary for John to be in heaven to "see" , John is having a vision as I just established above .

Yes, I have been transported "in the spirit"

Great ! So you have a deeper understanding of what it is to be " in the spirit " and will have no problem understanding where John is .

Paul River , do you have any questions about where John is ?

 

[Paul River]

Paul River , do you have any questions about where John is ?

It doesn't matter where his physical body is, John's mind and vision are in Heaven and his vantage point is from that perspective.

 

[hawkman]

It doesn't matter where his physical body is

Well yes it does , you said his vantage point was heaven as If he was in heaven looking down . John was having a vision to see what was going on in heaven .

John's mind and vision are in Heaven and his vantage point is from that perspective.

John's mind is where it shall remain as long as John is alive , in his body . John's mind is not in heaven . John is seeing a vision into heaven .

Paul River , do you understand what it is to have a vision ?

Have you ever had a vision from God ?

 

[hawkman]

The 144000 are sealed before the fallout from the heavens.

Yes , as I explained earlier the angels at the 4 corners of the earth are halted at the beginning of chapter 7 so that the 144,000 of God's servants can be sealed before the destruction to the earth the trees and the sea of Chapter 8 .

 

[for_his_glory]

To start with John was given all these visions while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos being in the Spirit as he never ascended up to heaven, Rev 1:9-11. According to John 3:13 no one has ever ascended up to heaven other then Jesus.



Revelation 7:1-8 - 144,000
John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshiping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.
(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4. Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Yes , as I explained earlier the angels at the 4 corners of the earth are halted at the beginning of chapter 7 so that the 144,000 of God's servants can be sealed before the destruction to the earth the trees and the sea of Chapter 8 .

Well,that would be protection from the wrath of God.
They are not sealed so as to preach the gospel at that time because at that time,it's to late.Judgement day has already arrived.

Everyone who had taken the mark of the beast all all hiding underground at that point.
Everyone who believed the gospel is being rained on.

 

[hawkman]

.Judgement day has already arrived.

Give me the Judgement Day verses , please .

Everyone who had taken the mark of the beast all all hiding underground at that point.

At some point they come back out . And we read in chapter 9 where the people without a seal of God are stung by the Locusts out of the pit . The 144,000 were sealed in chapter 7 the Locusts can not harm them ! !

Revelation 9​

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Give me the Judgement Day verses , please .

At some point they come back out . And we read in chapter 9 where the people without a seal of God are stung by the Locusts out of the pit . The 144,000 were sealed in chapter 7 the Locusts can not harm them ! !

Revelation 9​

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Scripture does not say them who hide under the ground when Christ comes ever come back out of the ground.

Where does it say they come out of the ground?


15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[hawkman]

Shilohsfoal , Revelation is a book with 22 chapters and it does not end at chapter 6 .

Scripture does not say them who hide under the ground when Christ comes ever come back out of the ground.

Where does it say they come out of the ground?

And where does it say they continue to live underground from that day forward never to return above ground ?

It said they were hiding underground not LIVING underground . So what verses in Revelation speak of men after they hid underground ?

Rev9 " men seek death "

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev9 " men killed "

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev9 "the rest of the men"
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev11"any man"
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

[Paul River]

John's mind is where it shall remain as long as John is alive , in his body . John's mind is not in heaven . John is seeing a vision into heaven .
Paul River , do you understand what it is to have a vision ?
Have you ever had a vision from God ?

You have asked this question already and I said yes - yes I have had visions from God. And I was completely transported in the spirit. But still not the point! This is the description of being caught up in the spirit within the scripture. John is called up into Heaven by the glorified Messiah in Revelation 4:1 - "After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” John is then "caught up in the spirit" into Heaven Rev 4:2

The Apostle Paul's description of this experience: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak." (2 Cor 12:2-4)

Paul could not determine if he was physically there or if it was just his spirit. This has been my experience - I was completely enraptured/lost by my vision.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal , Revelation is a book with 22 chapters and it does not end at chapter 6 .

And where does it say they continue to live underground from that day forward never to return above ground ?

It said they were hiding underground not LIVING underground . So what verses in Revelation speak of men after they hid underground ?

Rev9 " men seek death "

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev9 " men killed "

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev9 "the rest of the men"
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev11"any man"
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

I didn't say they live underground.Them who go underground during the great tribulation die underground.Those bomb shelters don't save them.Those caves don't have the power to deliver them from the wrath of God.


There are no verses in the bible say that them who hide underground from.christ come back out of the ground .
You would have to rewrite revelation for it to say that them who are hiding from Christ underground come out of the ground.





12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?




Is it here you say they stand and all go up out of the ground to live in the kingdom of heaven?