Who were the 144,000

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal , Revelation is a book with 22 chapters and it does not end at chapter 6 .

And where does it say they continue to live underground from that day forward never to return above ground ?

It said they were hiding underground not LIVING underground . So what verses in Revelation speak of men after they hid underground ?

Rev9 " men seek death "

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev9 " men killed "

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev9 "the rest of the men"
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev11"any man"
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

PS
The severe earthquake in revelation 11 that takes place at the time the two witnesses come back to life is the same severe earthquake that takes place in revelation 6 when Christ comes.

There are not 5 months after this for the wicked to live in Christs kingdom.The wicked are destroyed out of Christs kingdom when he comes.Not 5 months later.

 

[for_his_glory]

Scripture does not say them who hide under the ground when Christ comes ever come back out of the ground.

Where does it say they come out of the ground?


15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

How do you see these being those who have taken the mark of the beast that are wanting the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Those two verses are speaking about the seventh seal, not the events of the seventh trumpet when the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

How do you see these being those who have taken the mark of the beast that are wanting the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Those two verses are speaking about the seventh seal, not the events of the seventh trumpet when the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

Those who die a martyrs death die before them who took the mark of the beast hide in their caves.

Verse 11 martyrs die.


11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled


Verse 15,sinners hide in their bomb shelters.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;





Also can be compared to Mathew 24 which shows the persecution of the saints takes place before the stars fall from heaven.Same stars that fall in revelation 6.


Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[for_his_glory]

Those who die a martyrs death die before them who took the mark of the beast hide in their caves.

Verse 11 martyrs die.


11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled


Verse 15,sinners hide in their bomb shelters.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;





Also can be compared to Mathew 24 which shows the persecution of the saints takes place before the stars fall from heaven.Same stars that fall in revelation 6.


Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The seven seals that only Jesus is worthy to open starts with the first seal in Rev Chapter 6 an ending with the seventh seal in Rev Chapter 8. These seven seals are not the same thing as the seven trumpets that will sound after the seventh seal is opened as we read in Rev 8:6. With the sounding of the first trumpet carries through to Rev 11:15 with the sounding of the seventh trumpet, which includes all the rest of the end time events up to the return of Christ in Chapter 19 and ends with God ushering down the New Jerusalem from heaven.

Chapter six only explains the first six seals as in a brief scenario of what is about to take place during the timing of Gods seven trumpet and seven vial chastisements. Hopefully many will come back to God through repentance during the time of His fierce wrath upon those of disobedience as God would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Jesus spoke to His Disciples in Matthew Chapter twenty four of those things all of us need to be watchful of before His return as no man knows the day nor the hour of His return. It is not until Chapter eight that we see the seventh seal being opened that begins with the seven trumpets and leads up to the seven vial judgments of Gods fierce wrath. The seventh trumpet begins the full explanation of what happens to those who walk in disobedience to God before the great and terrible day of the Lords return as the powers of heaven will be shaken, Joel 2:30, 31; Luke 21:26.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The seven seals that only Jesus is worthy to open starts with the first seal in Rev Chapter 6 an ending with the seventh seal in Rev Chapter 8. These seven seals are not the same thing as the seven trumpets that will sound after the seventh seal is opened as we read in Rev 8:6. With the sounding of the first trumpet carries through to Rev 11:15 with the sounding of the seventh trumpet, which includes all the rest of the end time events up to the return of Christ in Chapter 19 and ends with God ushering down the New Jerusalem from heaven.

Chapter six only explains the first six seals as in a brief scenario of what is about to take place during the timing of Gods seven trumpet and seven vial chastisements. Hopefully many will come back to God through repentance during the time of His fierce wrath upon those of disobedience as God would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Jesus spoke to His Disciples in Matthew Chapter twenty four of those things all of us need to be watchful of before His return as no man knows the day nor the hour of His return. It is not until Chapter eight that we see the seventh seal being opened that begins with the seven trumpets and leads up to the seven vial judgments of Gods fierce wrath. The seventh trumpet begins the full explanation of what happens to those who walk in disobedience to God before the great and terrible day of the Lords return as the powers of heaven will be shaken, Joel 2:30, 31; Luke 21:26.

The powers of the heavens is shaken when the heavens depart from the earth like a scroll being rolled together.

That's when them in judea flee to the mountains to hide in their caves.They see such a fearful site in the heavens .


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 

[for_his_glory]

The powers of the heavens is shaken when the heavens depart from the earth like a scroll being rolled together.

That's when them in judea flee to the mountains to hide in their caves.They see such a fearful site in the heavens .


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

You can believe your vision, but it comes against scripture as you are mixing up many different events taking them out of order as given the order in scripture as I have shown you with scripture.

 

[hawkman]

Oh well I apologize Paul , I sidetracked the issue at hand that is the 144,000 , it happens .
Just a few more words here and back to the 144,000 .

Have you @Paul River ever been "in the spirit" ?

And your answer was .

Yes, I have been transported "in the spirit"

It is possible to be "transported" in the spirit with out having a vision . Phillip . This is why I asked this next question .

Have you ever had a vision from God ?

It is possible to have a vision without being transported . The vision transpires in your mind , you are the only one seeing it . One vision I saw I was in a room with 3 other people and they saw nothing but I plainly saw letters on a painting , the letters were in my mind superimposed on the painting .

You have asked this question already and I said yes - yes I have had visions from God. And I was completely transported in the spirit.

So you understand the vantage point is in the vision and can change instantly.

 

[hawkman]

Back to the 144,000 .

John sees the angels at the 4 corners of the earth because he is in Heaven!

The vision John was having was a vision of things happening in heaven and now starting in Rev Chapter 7 verses 1-8 John's vision is of things happening on earth . The vision shifts back to heaven in verse Rev7:9 .

The 144,000 are sealed on earth and remain there for their service to God . They presence is proved again in Rev9 .
"men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads" , no need to mention this unless the sealed servants are still at work on earth .

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

[eddif]

Back to the 144,000 .

The vision John was having was a vision of things happening in heaven and now starting in Rev Chapter 7 verses 1-8 John's vision is of things happening on earth . The vision shifts back to heaven in verse Rev7:9 .

The 144,000 are sealed on earth and remain there for their service to God . They presence is proved again in Rev9 .
"men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads" , no need to mention this unless the sealed servants are still at work on earth .

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

hawkman
I seem to have missed all this discussion.
The OP seems missing now.

You have any time to discuss this more?

Care to discuss:
The seals? When the seals were applied?Both sides of the river?

I was wondering about the 144,000 and this came up on search.

Maybe for_his_glory will tolerate me. LOL

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Back to the 144,000 .

These comments are what I often mention, but with a few new ideas.

Sealed with?:
Promises (covenant?)
Mark on forehead?
Pile of stones?
White garment
Belief in Abraham’s bosom
Tongues of Natuons
Signs at gentile inclusion
Add another/subtract another?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Ephesians 1:13 kjv
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is sort of :
(Signed, sealed and delivered)

When Judas delivered Jesus to authorities, the delivery was sealed with a kiss.

I have wondered for years what the seals were. What I have now is a hint of what they are. I have a dim view of (seals).

Comments?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

They are sealed so they can work here on this earth . Being "sealed " is for protection .
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

I agree

In Ezekiel those who mourned over the sins of Israel were marked on the outer forehead.

At Pentecost the law was placed in their minds.
The old covenant was external, the new birth was internal.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Shilohsfoal , Revelation is a book with 22 chapters and it does not end at chapter 6 .

And where does it say they continue to live underground from that day forward never to return above ground ?

It said they were hiding underground not LIVING underground . So what verses in Revelation speak of men after they hid underground ?

Rev9 " men seek death "

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Rev9 " men killed "

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev9 "the rest of the men"
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Rev11"any man"
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

I agree again

Those protected in the grave are sort of alive till the resurrection. (Lazarus and rich man).
Abraham’s bosom allows Jesus to visit and seal the Old Testament saints.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

hawkman
I seem to have missed all this discussion.
The OP seems missing now.

You have any time to discuss this more?

Care to discuss:
The seals? When the seals were applied?Both sides of the river?

I was wondering about the 144,000 and this came up on search.

Maybe for_his_glory will tolerate me. LOL

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Hi eddif I always tolerate you as it's not tolerating you, but helping you learn as I like your enthusiasm for looking for truth and understanding. You can always ask me anything and hopefully we can find truth together

 

[hawkman]

You have any time to discuss this more?

Sure we can .

Care to discuss:
The seals? When the seals were applied?Both sides of the river?

Ok , you lost me , "Both sides of the river ." explain please and we will proceed .

 

[eddif]

Sure we can .

Ok , you lost me , "Both sides of the river ." explain please and we will proceed .

Well you will probably already know this is a loaded statement.
On the Egypt / wilderness side it was round and round the mountain and death.

On the promissed land side of the river, it was to be better if they followed instructions.

And, I guess the spinal fluid river. The mindset is different on either side of it too. Secular reasoning rays left brain reasoning is different. I know my left hand does not know how to write. The New Jerusalem has a tree on either side of the river clear as crystal. King David’s left handed warriors fit in somewhere. We do not fight against flesh and blood.

You made a lot of symbolic statements in this thread. I already made some comments, and would like everyone to discuss symbolism a little more.

I will go back and read again. The physical and the spiritual can be parallel.

Romans 1:20

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

I wonder if Starns? Has a video.
eddif

 

[eddif]

I wonder if Starns? Has a video.
eddif

Starnes died in 2018.

the ceberal spinal fluid has a pump that circulates the fluid. Much like He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure.

IMHO the 144,000 spread the Jewish oracles of God to the nations. If the nations listened they prospered. If they did not listen they suffered. Their offspring were those from the nations at Pentecost.
Ezekiel tells the story.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This is speaking about the 144000.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


Scripture does not say they preach to the world.

Yes, these 144,000 are the firstfruits of the great multitude. They are but a sample of the whole harvest, i.e. reaping of the earth in chapter 14. One question I'd like to ask is, what do you think about them being "virgins not defiled with women"? It seems extremely misogynistic against women if you read it in a strictly literal way. Not only would it imply that all women are lustful harlots responsible for "defiling men", but it would exclude all fathers, all who are sexually experienced, despite any other virtues, only celibate monks who've never touched a woman are qualified. This doesn't make any sense. I tend to believe that this is referring to the Great Harlot of Babylon and her offsprings of abomination in Rev. 17, not literal women.

 

[eddif]

One question I'd like to ask is, what do you think about them being "virgins not defiled with women"? It seems extremely misogynistic against women if you read it in a strictly literal way. Not only would it imply that all women are lustful harlots responsible for "defiling men", but it would exclude all fathers, all who are sexually experienced, despite any other virtues, only celibate monks who've never touched a woman are qualified. This doesn't make any sense. I tend to believe that this is referring to the Great Harlot of Babylon and her offsprings of abomination in Rev. 17, not literal women.

The conversation the disciples had with Jesus about (why parables) is the answer.
Isaiah 6, Matthew 13, Mark 6, etc.

The physical difference in male and female
is not about what creation is about.

The imagery of humans is so we can understand the Godhead:
Romans 1:18 kjv
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed itunto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Secrets hidden from the foundation of the world require revelation to be understood.

The seed is the word if God
The ground is men’s hearts

The physical/literal has levels of understanding.

Mississippi redneck
eddif