Who were the Nephilim & Giants in the OT?

[JLB]

It depends on how one understands “sons of God”. I believe both you and I are “sons of God”. But I do not believe in the same manner as Genesis 6.

The Jews do not interpret verse 2 as sons of. God.
Rashi gives two rationale for this verse.
1. These are of Princes and the Judges.
2. Princes which go as messengers for God, and represent God.
I especially like the reference to Moses. We understand Moses was a man and a great Prophet. However, many saw Moses as a God and God tells Moses this.
Exodus 4:16 NET
16 He[au] will speak for you to the people, and it will be as if[av] he[aw] were your mouth[ax] and as if you were his God.[ay] 17 You will also take in your hand this staff, with which you will do the signs.”[az]

Here is a translation of Genesis 4:2 with commentary from Rashi.

That the sons of the nobles saw the daughters of man when they were beautifying themselves, and they took for themselves wives from whomever they chose.		בוַיִּרְא֤וּ בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם כִּ֥י טֹבֹ֖ת הֵ֑נָּה וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר בָּחָֽרוּ:
the sons of the nobles: Heb. בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים, the sons of the princes (Targumim) and the judges (Gen. Rabbah 26:5). Another explanation: בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים are the princes who go as messengers of the Omnipresent. They too mingled with them (Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer, ch. 22). Every אֱלֹהִים in Scripture is an expression of authority, and the following proves it (Exod. 4:16): “And you shall be to him as a lord (לֵאלֹהִים)”; (ibid. 7:1): “See, I have made you a lord (אֶלֹהִים).”

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your diligent study concerning this dreadful subject.



My only question still remains.


How did these sons of God, if they were in fact human, survive the flood to continue producing Nephilim giants, afterward?




JLB

 

[JLB]

By the power of the Holy Spirit which convicts the world of her sins, thus the one being convicted has a choice. They can harden their heart or they can repent of their sins and become born again.

I’m just now seeing this. Sorry for the late reply.

Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Matthew 13:24-29


Tares, sons of the wicked one, will never be “wheat”, sons of the kingdom. It’s another seed altogether, and can never produce the intended crop, ever.


He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. Matthew 13:37-40

• the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

JLB

 

[Link1983]

It depends on how one understands “sons of God”. I believe both you and I are “sons of God”. But I do not believe in the same manner as Genesis 6.

The Jews do not interpret verse 2 as sons of. God.
Rashi gives two rationale for this verse.
1. These are of Princes and the Judges.
2. Princes which go as messengers for God, and represent God.
I especially like the reference to Moses. We understand Moses was a man and a great Prophet. However, many saw Moses as a God and God tells Moses this.
Exodus 4:16 NET
16 He[au] will speak for you to the people, and it will be as if[av] he[aw] were your mouth[ax] and as if you were his God.[ay] 17 You will also take in your hand this staff, with which you will do the signs.”[az]

Here is a translation of Genesis 4:2 with commentary from Rashi.

That the sons of the nobles saw the daughters of man when they were beautifying themselves, and they took for themselves wives from whomever they chose.		בוַיִּרְא֤וּ בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם כִּ֥י טֹבֹ֖ת הֵ֑נָּה וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר בָּחָֽרוּ:
the sons of the nobles: Heb. בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים, the sons of the princes (Targumim) and the judges (Gen. Rabbah 26:5). Another explanation: בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים are the princes who go as messengers of the Omnipresent. They too mingled with them (Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer, ch. 22). Every אֱלֹהִים in Scripture is an expression of authority, and the following proves it (Exod. 4:16): “And you shall be to him as a lord (לֵאלֹהִים)”; (ibid. 7:1): “See, I have made you a lord (אֶלֹהִים).”

We are called in the Bible as sons of man. Angels are called the sons of God. Also Adam and Jesus is called sons of God. Because they were born of God and not of man. You and I are sons of man.
But because of Jesus we are reunited with God.
So then under the new covenant we are indeed the sons of God in Christ. Because He is. A son of God is also a god..

I think itbis important to understand not only the who or what, but also understand the why.
Essential to understand questions we have. For example the study of nephilim and many other happenings throughout history.
M

 

[JLB]

To all


Thank you for your time and effort in this thread.


I am bowing out.


God bless.



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your diligent study concerning this dreadful subject.



My only question still remains.


How did these sons of God, if they were in fact human, survive the flood to continue producing Nephilim giants, afterward?




JLB

Good morning. I hope your day goes well.
As I’ve stated earlier, there are three views on this topic. Please see this link.

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1987422/jewish/Nephilim-Fallen-Angels-Giants-or-Men.htm

You ask an interesting question. However, regardless of which of the three views one takes, I don’t believe the Bible gives us a straight forward answer. If I were to ask you the same question, I do not believe you could point me to a specific passage which directly answers your question. However, regardless of which view one holds, I do believe a reasoned response from scripture could be given.

This is a fascinating aspect of scripture. That is, that scripture draws us into the narrative and causes us to ponder certain portions.

Now then, if sons of God were simply the direct line from Adam, they would have been considered nobility. After all, God is a Monarchy, not a democracy. Thus, Adam, being a son of God, his direct offspring would be considered nobles.

NIV Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

From the article:

Explanation 3: Fallen Humans​

Finally, there others who take a different approach and explain benei elokim to mean people who were—at least to begin with—on a spiritually high level. They are later called nephilim, for they or their descendants (or both) fell from their spiritual heights, became corrupted, and eventually brought G‑d’s wrath upon themselves by robbing, murdering and raping without hesitation.15

We end up with several reasons why these beings are called nephilim:

1. Because they fell from their greatness.16

2. Because they caused the world to fall.17

3. Because they caused the hearts of people to fall, trembling before their great stature.18

4. Because they fell from heaven—although not without their consent.19

5. Nephilim is Hebrew for “giants”—which they were, either in stature, in authority or in spiritual greatness.20

Post flood, If we go back to Genesis with Abraham, he meets a certain Priest Melchizedek. We need to understand that this takes place in what is later called Jerusalem but more specifically, where Solomon builds the Lords Temple. Many believe Melchizedek is Shem, Noah’s son. Regardless, we understand Melchizedek is a great man of God that even Levi paid tithes through Abrams loins.
Fast forward 430 years and the land of Canaan is as corrupt as before the flood. Just as the earlier narrative from chapter 3 goes east, so does Canaan after Israel leaves the land for Egypt.

What happened to Melchizedek? Surely he had children, surely he had followers. What had become of these great spiritual people that once occupied the promise land and how did the sin increase so dramatically that they now offer their own children to their false gods who rule over them inflicting terror?

Perhaps, if the view that the Nephelim are those either directly descended from Melchizedek or esteemed followers of his, then it was these who caused the people in Canaan to fall.

 

[stovebolts]

To all


Thank you for your time and effort in this thread.


I am bowing out.


God bless.



JLB

We posted at the same time, so sorry for my last reply.

 

[stovebolts]

Bible speaks of there being "giants" also after the flood.
The nephilim. A human and angel breed.
Some seem to have survived. Is what i think...
Why came the flood? Why did angels mate with humans? Only because they were beautiful?... i don't think so.
Sons of God is in this matter talking about angels. Every scripture on this makes it pretty clear..
We should always read the full context.
Generally speaking

Hi Link.
For me, it’s not as clear as you make it out to be.
That being said, I do understand how you and many others come to your conclusions.
Personally, I think there is room on this site for all three views. Where we run out of room, is when one supports any form of the heretical Serpent seed doctrine because it devalues human life.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Bible speaks of there being "giants" also after the flood.
The nephilim. A human and angel breed.
Some seem to have survived. Is what i think...
Why came the flood? Why did angels mate with humans? Only because they were beautiful?... i don't think so.
Sons of God is in this matter talking about angels. Every scripture on this makes it pretty clear..
We should always read the full context.
Generally speaking

There's no proof that fallen angels are the sons of God in Genesis 6.
If we look at Job, we have a clearer understanding.
It states that angels presented themselves before the Eternal and with them was Satan the devil (Job 1:6, see also 38:7). Clearly, the righteous spirit beings are being referenced as "sons" and not Lucifer.

 

[Link1983]

There's no proof that fallen angels are the sons of God in Genesis 6.
If we look at Job, we have a clearer understanding.
It states that angels presented themselves before the Eternal and with them was Satan the devil (Job 1:6, see also 38:7). Clearly, the righteous spirit beings are being referenced as "sons" and not Lucifer.

Yes. I actually understood this today after post by Stovebolts. Pointing out the same facts.
So I never thought about it before today.
That they might have been sons of God before they committed high treason. And therefore by their own free will chose satan as their new God or "father"
So then fallen angels are to be more correct this time; sons of satan.
In a sense the same way as man did the same sin.
I stand corrected. Thanks to mature belivers.
And I always believe that we ought to be careful about agreeing with the Bible through study and by revelation with help from THS.

 

[Link1983]

Amen.
Please share.

I agree. There is no correlation.
Two different subjects..

 

[Link1983]

Yes, great ones, like Donald Trump.

Who does God choose to do His will on earth?

 

[Link1983]

I'm into something else right now, but Chuck Missler does a very good job at explaining the Nephilim and all with scriptures too, so this is a good place to start is his video and he has loads more on his site...

Yes!! He is great! Bible teacher. At least on hard subjects.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Who does God choose to do His will on earth?

 

[JLB]

The Dawn of CRISPR Mutants

An anthropologist dives into the world of CRISPR genetic engineering to explore the hope of redesigning our species for the better.

www.sapiens.org