Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

[JLB]

What do you suggest. When I'm referring to the Godhead, should I stick with YHWH, and never with Jehovah, or Elohim?

I don't speak Hebrew, so when worshiping, I use Lord, Heavenly Father, Jesus...

The name Jesus, represents all of the fullness of the Godhead.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; Colossians 2:9

I do know the Enemy was thrown out for wanting to be worshiped as God, and he continues to this day to deceive us into worshiping him, in whatever way he can.

I think Yah Hoveh would be more correct, from what I have studied.


Please share with us what your research unfolds.


JLB

 

[Roro1972]

john 15
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. imho

the question in the op title; this verse answers the original question without confusing the person that ask. imho

 

[Tracy J. Harper]

Sounds like you're like David. Just keep it up til the end and you'll meet David and the rest of the saints.

iakov the fool.

We believe in God to be approved by God, and enter into the kingdom of heaven. If we don't know the criteria of entering into the heaven, our belief will be in vain.

 

[Chopper]

I don't speak Hebrew, so when worshiping, I use Lord, Heavenly Father, Jesus...

The name Jesus, represents all of the fullness of the Godhead.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; Colossians 2:9

I do know the Enemy was thrown out for wanting to be worshiped as God, and he continues to this day to deceive us into worshiping him, in whatever way he can.

I think Yah Hoveh would be more correct, from what I have studied.


Please share with us what your research unfolds.


JLB

Thanks for your reply. Basically, I knew some of what you posted before this. I guess I was ignorant of how serious the changes were. I have returned to Genesis for part of my morning Bible studies, and the fourth word in chapter one is "God". Strong's says this

el-o-heem''ĕlôhı̂ymאֱלֹהִים

Total KJV occurrences: 2601Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.el-o-heem''ĕlôhı̂ym

I like the word Elohiym because it is plural and when used to start my morning prayer, I feel it says good morning to all three, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do you feel that's wrong?

 

[jocor]

Yesterday, I met sister Lili, she asked me a question, “Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus? Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the son. Father is greater than Son. Should we pray to the Holy Father Jehovah?
Isaiah 43:10-11, it recorded, ‘…before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.’
And Exodus 3:15 records, ‘…the LORD God … is my name for ever, and this is my memorial to all generations.’
But ‘Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’(Acts 4:12) (kjv) So I'm at a loss whose name I should pray! Can you tell me?”
I didn't answer her question. Because I thought I only prayed to Lord Jesus, and did as what Lord asked me to do, then I can be saved. I was confused about this question. Whom do I need to pray to for being saved?

It doesn't matter whether one directs their prayer for salvation to the Father or the Son. They are both our Saviors and they are united in their desire to save us. Father Yahweh (erroneously called "Jehovah") is the ultimate Savior. Salvation comes from Him (Isaiah 43:11; Hosea 13:4). Yet, He uses others to save people which makes those He uses saviors as well (Judges 6:14-15; 2 Kings 13:5, 25; Nehemiah 9:27; Isaiah 19:20; Obadiah 1:21). The primary Savior the Father is using to save the world is His Son Yeshua (erroneously called "Jesus") (1 John 4:14).

After one is saved, most prayers should be directed to the Father as per "The Lord's Prayer", but it is not wrong to pray to the Son as well. For example, the Son said, "If you abide in me ..." (John 15:7), I can then rightfully pray to the Son by saying, "Master, please show me what it means to abide in you." However, it would be wrong for me to pray to the Son saying, "Master Yeshua, please give me my daily bread," because it is the Father who provides such things (Matthew 6:9, 11).

 

[jocor]

Jehovah is not the name of God, but a perversion.

Pray to your Heavenly Father in Jesus Name.

JLB

The name "Jesus" is a perversion as well. He was born with the Hebrew name "Yeshua" (Yay-shoo-a). There is no letter J and no hard J sound in Hebrew. His name was then rendered "Iesous" (Yay-soo-us) into Greek. This was an attempted transliteration, but Greek has no "sh" sound, so only the s carried over. Greeks also put a "us" suffix on many names, ie; Timotheus. Iesous was then rendered "Iesus" (Yay-sus) in Latin. From there it became "Jesus" when the letter J was invented in the middle ages. Prior to the invention of the letter J, the Son's name was "Iesus" in the 1611 KJV Bible.

 

[Chopper]

It doesn't matter whether one directs their prayer for salvation to the Father or the Son. They are both our Saviors and they are united in their desire to save us. Father Yahweh (erroneously called "Jehovah") is the ultimate Savior. Salvation comes from Him (Isaiah 43:11; Hosea 13:4). Yet, He uses others to save people which makes those He uses saviors as well (Judges 6:14-15; 2 Kings 13:5, 25; Nehemiah 9:27; Isaiah 19:20; Obadiah 1:21). The primary Savior the Father is using to save the world is His Son Yeshua (erroneously called "Jesus") (1 John 4:14).

After one is saved, most prayers should be directed to the Father as per "The Lord's Prayer", but it is not wrong to pray to the Son as well. For example, the Son said, "If you abide in me ..." (John 15:7), I can then rightfully pray to the Son by saying, "Master, please show me what it means to abide in you." However, it would be wrong for me to pray to the Son saying, "Master Yeshua, please give me my daily bread," because it is the Father who provides such things (Matthew 6:9, 11).

jacor, I'm very interested on your "erroneously called" Jehovah & Jesus. I don't think I'm moving away from the OP so I'd like your take on this matter. JLB really startled me with his two posts, # 17 & 18. I'm a student of the Old Testament and I have been using the name Elohiym, "To the God most high Elohiym" when I start a prayer in the morning. Should I not use that name?

 

[jocor]

Thanks for your reply. Basically, I knew some of what you posted before this. I guess I was ignorant of how serious the changes were. I have returned to Genesis for part of my morning Bible studies, and the fourth word in chapter one is "God". Strong's says this

el-o-heem''ĕlôhı̂ymאֱלֹהִים

Total KJV occurrences: 2601Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.el-o-heem''ĕlôhı̂ym

I like the word Elohiym because it is plural and when used to start my morning prayer, I feel it says good morning to all three, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do you feel that's wrong?

When referring to Father YHWH, "Elohim" is not a plural in number, but in majesty. As per the definition you provided, it can be used as a "superlative". The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, Volume 1, p. 44, says, "The plural ending is usually described as a plural of majesty and not intended as a true plural when used of God. This is seen in the fact that the noun elohim is consistently used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular."

 

[jocor]

jacor, I'm very interested on your "erroneously called" Jehovah & Jesus. I don't think I'm moving away from the OP so I'd like your take on this matter. JLB really startled me with his two posts, # 17 & 18. I'm a student of the Old Testament and I have been using the name Elohiym, "To the God most high Elohiym" when I start a prayer in the morning. Should I not use that name?

It is perfectly acceptable to use "Elohim" when addressing the Father. I do not consider it a "name", but a title meaning "Mighty One." I believe our Father revealed His name as "YHWH" (phonetically transliterated in English as "Yahweh".

 

[JLB]

Do you feel that's wrong?

I personally don't use the word Elohiym, but it certainly is a reference to the Godhead, Who is our Family.

I guess I don't fully trust the "transliterations" that come from the Strongs, enough to try and pronounce Hebrew words that I'm not familiar with and don't use as my primary language.

I haven't found Yahweh or Yeshua in the bible either.

If a person doesn't confess Jesus as Lord, the Lord God, Who is: YHWH, our great God and Savior, the Great I AM, the Alpha and Omega, I don't trust very much of what they say.

Paul says this -

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

Verse 13 is a direct quote from Joel 2:32

Confessing Jesus as Lord, YHWH , the Lord God who became flesh and died for our sins.

Confessing Jesus as Lord, YHWH is in fact obeying the Gospel, and what those of Judaism refused to do.

Paul goes on to say - 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?


There were those who believed in Him, but wouldn't confess Him as Lord.


Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; John 12:42



JLB

 

[JLB]

When referring to Father YHWH, "Elohim" is not a plural in number, but in majesty.

This is a man made idea from Judaism, and is not true.

Elohiym is Plural, and refers to gods or the Godhead.


JLB

 

[jocor]

This is a man made idea from Judaism, and is not true.

Elohiym is Plural, and refers to gods or the Godhead.

JLB

Please explain that "man made idea from Judaism" in light of Exodus 7:1:

And YHWH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohim) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
​

Is Moses a triune Godhead to Pharaoh or was he simply made "a mighty one" to Pharaoh?

 

[JLB]

It is perfectly acceptable to use "Elohim" when addressing the Father. I do not consider it a "name", but a title meaning "Mighty One." I believe our Father revealed His name as "YHWH" (phonetically transliterated in English as "Yahweh".

Jesus is YHWH, the Lord God.

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Zechariah 12:10

and again

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

It is Jesus who is Coming with His saints at the end of the age, to Gather His people at the Resurrection/Rapture.


God the Father has given His only begotten Son His Name.


9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11

and again

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. John 17:11

It is the name of Jesus that we have protection from the Enemy.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Please explain that "man made idea from Judaism" in light of Exodus 7:1:

And YHWH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohim) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
​

Is Moses a triune Godhead to Pharaoh or was he simply made "a mighty one" to Pharaoh?

Man is three, yet functions as one, just as God is three and functions as one.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7


Are you saying that the Godhead, Elohiym is not Three?

Are you saying man was not created in the image and likeness of Elohiym ?

Then God [Elohyim] said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Genesis 1:26

Moses sure seemed to think that Elohiym meant more than One Person.

Are you calling Moses a false prophet?



JLB

 

[jocor]

God the Father has given His only begotten Son His Name.


9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11

and again

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. John 17:11

It is the name of Jesus that we have protection from the Enemy.

JLB

Philippians 2:9 does not have "the" ("the" name) in the Greek text. He gave him "a name". Verse 10 may say "Jesus" in our English Bibles, but that is NOT the name he was given at birth since the letter J did not exist in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek when the Son was named in Matthew 1:21 (nor did the J sound exist). And "Jesus" is not the name of the Father.

As for John 17:11, you are supposed to cite the Bible version you are using if it is not the KJV. The KJV reads;

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
​

It is the disciples that were given to the Son, NOT the Father's name as your perverted version reads. BTW, if you quoted the NASB, "the name" is written in italics meaning it is not in the Greek text.

 

[jocor]

Man is three, yet functions as one, just as God is three and functions as one.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7


Are you saying that the Godhead, Elohiym is not Three?

Are you saying man was not created in the image and likeness of Elohiym ?

Then God [Elohyim] said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Genesis 1:26

Moses sure seemed to think that Elohiym meant more than One Person.

Are you calling Moses a false prophet?

JLB

Nice try JLB. Do not try to turn this into a theological discussion so you can get me thrown off the forum.

I am saying MOSES is not a triune GODHEAD simply because "elohim" was applied to him. The word "elohim" is plural when the context and surrounding grammar calls for it. It is singular when the context and surrounding grammar calls for it. Since the word "elohim" is primarily used of our Father YHWH WITH singular pronouns, verbs and adjectives, the sense is singular even though the actual word is in a plural form (the plural of majesty - a superlative).

 

[JLB]

I am saying MOSES is not a triune GODHEAD simply because "elohim" was applied to him.

Moses wrote for us the truth about Elohyim.

Are you saying man was not created in the image and likeness of Elohiym ?

Then God [Elohyim] said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Genesis 1:26

Moses sure seemed to think that Elohiym meant more than One Person.

Is Us a plural word meaning more than one person or not?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Nice try JLB. Do not try to turn this into a theological discussion so you can get me thrown off the forum.

I am saying MOSES is not a triune GODHEAD simply because "elohim" was applied to him. The word "elohim" is plural when the context and surrounding grammar calls for it. It is singular when the context and surrounding grammar calls for it. Since the word "elohim" is primarily used of our Father YHWH WITH singular pronouns, verbs and adjectives, the sense is singular even though the actual word is in a plural form (the plural of majesty - a superlative).

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26


In this context, is Elohyim singular or plural ?


JLB

 

[Chopper]

It is perfectly acceptable to use "Elohim" when addressing the Father. I do not consider it a "name", but a title meaning "Mighty One." I believe our Father revealed His name as "YHWH" (phonetically transliterated in English as "Yahweh".

Thank you very much. My Son uses YHWH Yahweh all the time except when referring to our Heavenly Father.

I personally don't use the word Elohiym, but it certainly is a reference to the Godhead, Who is our Family.

I guess I don't fully trust the "transliterations" that come from the Strongs, enough to try and pronounce Hebrew words that I'm not familiar with and don't use as my primary language.

I haven't found Yahweh or Yeshua in the bible either.

If a person doesn't confess Jesus as Lord, the Lord God, Who is: YHWH, our great God and Savior, the Great I AM, the Alpha and Omega, I don't trust very much of what they say.

Paul says this -

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:8-13

Verse 13 is a direct quote from Joel 2:32

Confessing Jesus as Lord, YHWH , the Lord God who became flesh and died for our sins.

Confessing Jesus as Lord, YHWH is in fact obeying the Gospel, and what those of Judaism refused to do.

Paul goes on to say - 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?


There were those who believed in Him, but wouldn't confess Him as Lord.


Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; John 12:42



JLB

I accept what you say. Now that we're getting technical, Jesus is not correct either. Yeshua is correct. Hebrews don't have a J.

 

[JLB]

I accept what you say. Now that we're getting technical, Jesus is not correct either. Yeshua is correct. Hebrews don't have a J.

Jesus is not Hebrew.

Jesus is an English word.

Where does the bible us the word the Hebrew word Yeshua?


JLB