Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

[jocor]

.
I've got it !!!
Since there seems to be contention on the exact words used, and the book of Acts was translated to Greek from original Jewish texts, you can believe on the following name to ensure your inclusion in the kingdom of God.
אלוהים אדירים

Adirim Elohim? May I ask what verse in Acts you are mockingly referring to?

 

[JLB]

I offer two.

1) Several church fathers (Papias, Irenaeus, Origen, Eusebius, Jerome and others) state that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew and later translated it to Greek. In the Hebrew Matthew text the name of the Son is called “Yeshua” (written with the Hebrew letters yod-shin-waw-ayin).

2) The NT Greek texts use “Iesous/Iesou” for the Son’s name. “Iesou” was used in the Septuagint (Greek OT) to translate “Jeshua” (Yeshua in Hebrew) the son of Nun.

Neh 8:17 And all the congregation of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and sat under the booths: for since the days of Jeshua the son of Nun unto that day had not the children of Israel done so. And there was very great gladness.

Neh 8:17 και G2532[CONJ] εποιησαν G4160[V-AAI-3P] πασα G3956[A-NSF] η G3588[T-NSF] εκκλησια G1577[N-NSF] οι G3588[T-NPM] επιστρεψαντες G1994[V-AAPNP] απο G575[PREP] της G3588[T-GSF] αιχμαλωσιας G161[N-GSF] σκηνας G4633[N-APF] και G2532[CONJ] εκαθισαν G2523[V-AAI-3P] εν G1722[PREP] σκηναις G4633[N-DPF] οτι G3754[CONJ] ουκ G3364[ADV] εποιησαν G4160[V-AAI-3P] απο G575[PREP] ημερων G2250[N-GPF] ιησου G2424[N-PRI] υιου G5207[N-GSM] ναυη [N-PRI] ουτως G3778[ADV] οι G3588[T-NPM] υιοι G5207[N-NPM] ισραηλ G2474[N-PRI] εως G2193[CONJ] της G3588[T-GSF] ημερας G2250[N-GSF] εκεινης G1565[D-GSF] και G2532[CONJ] εγενετο G1096[V-AMI-3S] ευφροσυνη G2167[N-NSF] μεγαλη G3173[A-NSF]

Neh 8:17 ויעשׂוH6213 made כלH3605 And all הקהלH6951 the congregation השׁביםH7725 of them that were come again מןH4480 out of השׁביH7628 the captivity סכותH5521 booths, וישׁבוH3427 and sat בסכותH5521 under the booths: כיH3588 for לאH3808 had not עשׂוH6213 done מימיH3117 since the days ישׁועH3442 of Jeshua בןH1121 the son נוןH5126 of Nun כןH3651 so. בניH1121 the children ישׂראלH3478 of Israel עדH5704 unto היוםH3117 day ההואH1931 that ותהיH1961 And there was שׂמחהH8057 gladness. גדולהH1419 great מאד׃H3966 very
​

Sounds very far fetched.

Church fathers said..., that some version of Matthew used to be written in such a way.... Blah blah blah.

Then you cite a verse that refers to Joshua from the Old Testament and not the Lord.

You have no biblical proof of there being Yeshua used in the bible instead of Jesus, but you so sure that Jesus is a corrupt name for the Lord.

Then you say all the versions that show Him as God, are corrupt.

You deny Him as the Lord God, who will come with His saints at the end of the age, and you deny Him as being the Alpha and Omega, the first and the Last of the Old Testament and Revelation, and you deny Him as our great God and Savior, and now you claim His name really isn't Jesus.

You have the same basic theology as a Jehovah's Witness. Are you a Jehovahs Witness?

JLB

 

[jocor]

Sounds very far fetched.

Church fathers said..., that some version of Matthew used to be written in such a way.... Blah blah blah.

It is an historical fact that a Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was circulating back then. You can shut your eyes to the truth all you want.

Then you cite a verse that refers to Joshua from the Old Testament and not the Lord.

I cited that verse to show you that the Son's name, as it comes down to us through Greek, is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Yeshua". Just as "Jesus" comes from "Iesus" and "Iesus" comes from "Iesous", so too does "Iesous" come from "Yeshua". I guess this is all too far above your head for you to understand.

You have no biblical proof of there being Yeshua used in the bible instead of Jesus, but you so sure that Jesus is a corrupt name for the Lord.

I offered proof, but you shut your eyes to it.

Then you say all the versions that show Him as God, are corrupt.

Untrue. Some verses are corrupt, but for the most part, it is your interpretation of those verses that is corrupt.

You deny Him as the Lord God, who will come with His saints at the end of the age,

Finally, a truthful statement.

and you deny Him as being the Alpha and Omega, the first and the Last of the Old Testament and Revelation

Partially true. Of the OT, yes. Of the NT, never said that. More lies.

, and you deny Him as our great God and Savior

I confess him as my great elohim and Savior. Your ignorance of Hebrew and of Yeshua's own words prevents you from seeing him as a lesser elohim than his Father YHWH.

and now you claim His name really isn't Jesus.

It is not a "claim". It is a fact that you are shutting your eyes to.

You have the same basic theology as a Jehovah's Witness. Are you a Jehovahs Witness?

My theology differs greatly from JWs which is why I am not one of them.

Your attempt at slandering me by lying about my beliefs may serve to further your cause, but only at the cost of grieving the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

I offered proof, but you shut your eyes to it.

You offered no scripture that the Lord's name is Yeshua.

You offered no scripture that the Lord's name is not Jesus.

It is an historical fact that a Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was circulating back then. You can shut your eyes to the truth all you want.

It's your opinion that a Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was circulating "back then".

It is not a "claim". It is a fact that you are shutting your eyes to.

Please show us a New Testament scripture whereby the Lord's name is not Jesus.

Your "facts" don't come from scripture.

Here are a few facts from scripture:

• ...looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

Jesus is the great God and Savior.

• Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

The Lord God who will come with His saints is Jesus.

• “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12-13

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, which are references to God.


After reading these scriptures, will you confess Jesus as the Lord God?


JLB

 

[jocor]

You offered no scripture that the Lord's name is Yeshua.

You offered no scripture that the Lord's name is not Jesus.

It's your opinion that a Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was circulating "back then".

Please show us a New Testament scripture whereby the Lord's name is not Jesus.

Your "facts" don't come from scripture.

Good bye JLB. I have endured you long enough.

 

[Chopper]

Jesus is not Hebrew.

Jesus is an English word.

Where does the bible us the word the Hebrew word Yeshua?


JLB

:tongue

 

[Chopper]

That makes no sense. The PRIMARY times we should use "Yahweh" or YHWH" is when referring to the Father.

Ok, my bad, I didn't phrase that very well. you're right.

 

[JLB]

Good bye JLB. I have endured you long enough.

Will you at least acknowledge these scriptures to be the Truth?

• ...looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

Jesus is the great God and Savior.

• Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

The Lord God who will come with His saints is Jesus.

• “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12-13

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, which are references to God.


After reading these scriptures, will you confess Jesus as the Lord God?


JLB

 

[JLB]

:tongue

 

[Eugene]

Adirim Elohim? May I ask what verse in Acts you are mockingly referring to?

I cannot find the original Jewish writings reference to אלוהים אדירים, but other Scripture in Acts are as follows. I’ll learn to copy my sources in the future regardless if I think they are necessary.
Google Translator translates אלוהים אדירים to Jesus Christ.
https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/אלוהים אדירים

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

http://biblehub.com/mod/acts/2.htm אלוהים אדירים
Act 2:38 אנשים אחים מה עלינו לעשות׃ והטבלו כל איש מכם על שם ישוע המשיח לסליחת חטאיכם וקבלתם את כי לכם ההבטחה ולבניכם ולכל הרחוקים לכל אשר

Act 2:21 whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Chopper]

I believe that this thread is "Bible Study" where debate is not allowed. I'm going to drop out of this "discussion". Jocor, thank you for your input.

 

[reba]

.
I've got it !!!
Since there seems to be contention on the exact words used, and the book of Acts was translated to Greek from original Jewish texts, you can believe on the following name to ensure your inclusion in the kingdom of God.
אלוהים אדירים

PERFECT

 

[jocor]

I cannot find the original Jewish writings reference to אלוהים אדירים, but other Scripture in Acts are as follows. I’ll learn to copy my sources in the future regardless if I think they are necessary.
Google Translator translates אלוהים אדירים to Jesus Christ.
https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/אלוהים אדירים

Google translate really screwed up this time as you will see below. אלוהים translates as "God" in the KJV. אדירים translates as "lordly", "mightier" and "famous" in the KJV.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

http://biblehub.com/mod/acts/2.htm אלוהים אדירים
Act 2:38 אנשים אחים מה עלינו לעשות׃ והטבלו כל איש מכם על שם ישוע המשיח לסליחת חטאיכם וקבלתם את כי לכם ההבטחה ולבניכם ולכל הרחוקים לכל אשר

The words אלוהים אדירים are not found in Acts 2:38. The words I highlighted in red are "Yeshua HaMashiach" (Jesus the Christ). So much for Google's translation.

Act 2:21 whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In Acts 2:16, Peter told us he was quoting from Joel. Joel 2:32 says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered:" I totally agree.

 

[JLB]

In Acts 2:16, Peter told us he was quoting from Joel. Joel 2:32 says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered:" I totally agree.

Thank you for finally admitting that Jesus is YHWH.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

The words אלוהים אדירים are not found in Acts 2:38. The words I highlighted in red are "Yeshua HaMashiach" (Jesus the Christ). So much for Google's translation.

Jocor, you do realize that regardless whichever bible translates original languages to another, their effort only produces what they believe to be the closest sounds, or letters of the new language don’t you? Some of this reminds me of straining out gnats and camels. Somehow I just believe My Father knows Who I have believed on.

trans·lit·er·ate
transˈlitəˌrāt,tranz-
verb
past tense: transliterated; past participle: transliterated

1. write or print (a letter or word) using the closest corresponding letters of a different alphabet or language.

"names from one language are often transliterated into another"

ACTS 2:38 Excerpt in many translations:
ASV the name of Jesus Christ
BBE the name of Jesus Christ
CBE the name of Jesus Christ
CJB the authority of Yeshua the Messiah
CSB Jesus the Messiah
DBY the name of Jesus Christ
ESV the name of Jesus Christ
GNT the name of Jesus Christ
GNTA the name of Jesus Christ
GW the name of Jesus Christ
HNV the name of Yeshua the Messiah
JUB the name of Jesus Christ
KJV the name of Jesus Christ
NAS the name of Jesus Christ
NIV the name of Jesus Christ
NKJV the name of Jesus Christ
NLT the name of Jesus Christ
NRV the name of Jesus Christ
OJB in the Shem of Yehoshua HaMoshiach
RHE the name of Jesus Christ
RSV the name of Jesus Christ

 

[jocor]

Somehow I just believe My Father knows Who I have believed on.

Of course He knows who you have believed on. Have I ever said differently? This is not a matter of questioning one's salvation, but of embracing truth over error. The Father desires for us to worship Him in truth (John 4:23-24). Based on what I know of the history behind the name "Jesus" and the true name given to him at birth, I can no longer use it when referring to my Savior except to clarify for those I am conversing with if they don't understand.

All the Bible versions you listed that transliterate "Iesous" to "Jesus" have failed in their responsibility. "Iesous" transliterates in English to Yay-soos, not Jee-sus. Strong's writes the transliteration as "ee-ay-sooce" (same as Yay-soos, just written differently). The problem is, "Iesous" is NOT the correct transliteration of "Yeshua". Greek does not have an "sh" sound. Therefore, they could not bring the sound "Yeshua" into Greek. However, in English we do have the "sh" sound and can easily transliterate the Hebrew "Yeshua" to English as "Yeshua". That is what I choose to do. If someone else chooses not to and continues to use "Jesus" after being shown the truth, I will not be offended. That is between them and their Creator. My job is to sow seeds of truth and hope they bear fruit.

Also, keep in mind that no one prior to the 17th century ever heard the name "Jesus". It didn't exist. Why would anyone want to continue using a name that was invented about 400 years ago instead of restoring the Savior's true name to their lips?

 

[JLB]

The problem is, "Iesous" is NOT the correct transliteration of "Yeshua".

Yes because Yeshua is not a biblical word, for the Lord.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

It is an historical fact that a Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel was circulating back then. You can shut your eyes to the truth all you want.

At the present time there 28 known MSS of Hebrew Matthew copied by Jewish scribes in the Middle Ages. One of them has been preserved in the British Museum Library. I first heard about them was from Nehemia Gordon who is a Karaite Jew.

 

[Bar Elohim]

The Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God.

Just pray to God. Don't complicate it by over-analyzing. An angel will make sure your message gets to the right hypostases.

iakov the fool

Is God His name or job description? Like King David... David is his name, King is His job description... Gods name is JESUS!

 

[Bar Elohim]

I don't speak Hebrew, so when worshiping, I use Lord, Heavenly Father, Jesus...

The name Jesus, represents all of the fullness of the Godhead.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; Colossians 2:9

I do know the Enemy was thrown out for wanting to be worshiped as God, and he continues to this day to deceive us into worshiping him, in whatever way he can.

I think Yah Hoveh would be more correct, from what I have studied.


Please share with us what your research unfolds.


JLB

Jesus told the woman at the well, that we are to worship "God" in the Spirit, and the truth. One of the gifts given to believers who have received the Spirit, is to pray in the Spirit. For the Spirit prays the perfect will of the Lord. 1 Cor.14. Romans 6 we are told we don't know how to pray. as we should. So why do as Paul suggests and pray in the Spirit, and learn from the Spirit how to pray as we should?
Thing is the flesh profits nothing. So, unless it is the Spirit doing the praying through us, we usually pray our own desires, rather than His... 1 John, says we can have the "assurance " that we will have what is prayed, if what we pray is the will of the Lord.