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Why can't there be a perfect church

The problem with coming up with the "perfect church" is that no two people are in complete agreement on what that is. Also, the biggest problem with young Christians right now is they think a worship service is supposed to entertain them, and not a ceremony where believers come together for the purpose of worshiping God. If they could come to that understanding there would be a bit less division in the church. There are plenty of other issues, but this, as I see it, is a relatively easy one to tackle.
 
Knotical,
Is it any wonder why Jesus said what he said in the midst of controversy within the church?

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
 
StoveBolts said:
Knotical,
Is it any wonder why Jesus said what he said in the midst of controversy within the church?

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
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Your point?
 
Knotical said:
The problem with coming up with the "perfect church" is that no two people are in complete agreement on what that is. Also, the biggest problem with young Christians right now is they think a worship service is supposed to entertain them, and not a ceremony where believers come together for the purpose of worshiping God. If they could come to that understanding there would be a bit less division in the church. There are plenty of other issues, but this, as I see it, is a relatively easy one to tackle.
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considering they are the ones to take over the church....can't they play the ball the way that suits them? ;) Soccer in the 70's may be compleletly diffrent from what Messi and Co play today. (Just for humor, bro):lol
 
Classik said:
considering they are the ones to take over the church....can't they play the ball the way that suits them? ;) Soccer in the 70's may be compleletly diffrent from what Messi and Co play today. (Just for humor, bro):lol
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Not if they want to be a Bible believing church. Regardless of culture there are still certain aspects of a worship service that should not be messed with. And when it is turned into more of a rock concert, who is worshiping whom? I have attended a fair number of churches in my life-time, from the more open "contemporary" style to the rather conservative. I can tell you with certainty that every time I attended a contemporary service I always left feeling I was missing something. Usually, it had to do with the rather watered down sermon that was preached, but it also had to do with how the congregation was "participating" in the service. It was more of a distraction than a benefit.
 
Fear not! I found it for you: the perfect church!!!

2142301490_9d489a7faa.jpg


It's in Atlanta I think.
 
Knotical said:
Stovebolts said:
Knotical,
Is it any wonder why Jesus said what he said in the midst of controversy within the church?

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Click to expand...
Your point?
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Golly, I don't want to write a book here. My point is that controversy has always been a part of the church because controversy is a part of our world. We can all look around and see things within the church that we believe is wrong and as discouraging as it may seem at times, we can have great comfort in knowing that Jesus is present in those situations.

We see a pattern laid out for issues within the church in Mt. 18. First we confront the individual face to face. If it can't be resolved, we bring a couple of buddies. If it still can't be resolved, we bring the issues to the Elders. Now then, we must respect the Elders of the church assuming that the church has biblical Elders which is a whole other dimension to this topic since most churches don't have Elders that align with the model set forth in scripture. But I regress, the church has a process laid out by Jesus himself on how to deal with issues in the church and he assures us that he is present when two or three come together in His name. So we have to trust that the Holy Spirit is driving the conversation so our hearts should be open to the Word of God.
 
StoveBolts said:
Golly, I don't want to write a book here. My point is that controversy has always been a part of the church because controversy is a part of our world. We can all look around and see things within the church that we believe is wrong and as discouraging as it may seem at times, we can have great comfort in knowing that Jesus is present in those situations.

We see a pattern laid out for issues within the church in Mt. 18. First we confront the individual face to face. If it can't be resolved, we bring a couple of buddies. If it still can't be resolved, we bring the issues to the Elders. Now then, we must respect the Elders of the church assuming that the church has biblical Elders which is a whole other dimension to this topic since most churches don't have Elders that align with the model set forth in scripture. But I regress, the church has a process laid out by Jesus himself on how to deal with issues in the church and he assures us that he is present when two or three come together in His name. So we have to trust that the Holy Spirit is driving the conversation so our hearts should be open to the Word of God.
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Of course there is controversy, however, I was merely pointing out that the quest for the "perfect church" would be impossible even on the superficial level of why someone even attends the service. Some are there to be entertained, it seems, while others are actually there to participate.

We can get into the controversial aspects, but I think a good example has already been made.
 
Knotical said:
Of course there is controversy, however, I was merely pointing out that the quest for the "perfect church" would be impossible even on the superficial level of why someone even attends the service. Some are there to be entertained, it seems, while others are actually there to participate.
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Here's a novel thought... Their has NEVER been a "Perfect church".... But perhaps that's the point since the Church is Perfect. ;)
 
Do you know the hymn: The Church's one foundation Is Jesus Christ her Lord; she is His new creation By water and the Word:....
 
Why can't there be a perfect church
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There will be a perfect Church:

1 Corinthians 13:1-13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

<sup class="versenum"> </sup>Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant <sup class="versenum"> </sup>or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;<sup class="versenum"> </sup>it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

<sup class="versenum"> </sup>Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>For we know in part and we prophesy in part, <sup class="versenum"> </sup>but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
 
There will be a perfect church as soon as there are perfect people to use it :nod
 
Aardverk said:
There will be a perfect church as soon as there are perfect people to use it :nod
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I'm so ashamed to be a christian theses days...arguing with my brethren is no different that arguing with Athiests...

When will we finally get it that this internet divides us. We spend more time arguing then edifying.

We finally have the technology to preach the message around the world from our fingertips but we can't even agree on what the message is...we waste our time bickering.

Do you really think our brethren who are dying out there for the sake of simply reading the Word really bicker about nonsense like musical instruments?

Get real...it's time for us to unite!

Titus 3:10
"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him"

I'm sorry...I cannot take this anymore. I have spent 7 years arguing with atheists, and I'll be damned if I do it with my brothers and sisters...
 
CORE said:
I'm so ashamed to be a christian theses days...arguing with my brethren is no different that arguing with Athiests...

When will we finally get it that this internet divides us. We spend more time arguing then edifying.
..
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I hope that this internet, this forum, educates rather than divides. It certainly reveals difference but we already knew that difference exists. There is, I believe, another issue being revealed that causes squabbling.

I suggest that the problem is one person trying to TELL another person what to believe. They then quote a bit of the Bible or some web-site etc to support their beliefs and get angry and/or insulting if anyone has the temerity to disagree or quote conflicting scripture or facts. That is my take on the root cause of the squabbling - rigid ideas and beliefs rather than recognizing that we can learn more every day of our lives.

Perhaps I am lucky in that I have long accepted that I know nothing. I simply have my own beliefs which I choose to keep quiet about so that no one thinks I an trying to convert them. I am also fortunate that I have no hesitation in discussing anything, I have been in an adversarial profession much of my life and it no longer raises my blood pressure.

Don't go. Try not to think of it as arguing, try to regard it as an education and/or educating others. If we are all better educated, there should be less petty difference - dare I call it bigotry? There are some really good people here and the idiot population is not very high. Don't let them force you out. :sad
 
Aardverk said:
I hope that this internet, this forum, educates rather than divides. It certainly reveals difference but we already knew that difference exists. There is, I believe, another issue being revealed that causes squabbling.

I suggest that the problem is one person trying to TELL another person what to believe. They then quote a bit of the Bible or some web-site etc to support their beliefs and get angry and/or insulting if anyone has the temerity to disagree or quote conflicting scripture or facts. That is my take on the root cause of the squabbling - rigid ideas and beliefs rather than recognizing that we can learn more every day of our lives.
(
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There is nothing new being revealed...

Titus 3:10-11
"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned."

We don't have time to be messing around. We must promote the essentials....anything else should remain on a local level and in private, time permitting.
 
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