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Why Christians Fail to Receive Healing

As I recall, his disciples could not cast out a demon. Jesus informed them that this could not be accomplished without first fasting and praying. In short, they could have had faith to move mountains, but without fasting they would never accomplish their goal.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of spiritual matters, but I can tell you it's a dangerous thing to think you have all the answers.

Unfortunately, all the apostles were martyred save one, so we have no such evidence of them dying by anything other than "natural causes". However, I can cite the OT where David was praying for his infant to live. God said no, it was his punishment and no amount of prayer could have changed that, yet another example of what I'm talking about. I also remember Jesus healing a blind man. If you only went by the example of David's infant dying, you might assume the man in question sinned as well or his parents which was the reason he was blind. Jesus said neither. He said that he had been made blind specifically for the very purpose of being healed that very second in order to show God's glory. So what if his parents had had "faith" to heal but got no response for some 30 or 40 years? What would someone like you tell them? Would you have told them that they don't have enough faith? If so, they would no doubt begin to wonder if they had enough faith for salvation as well and perhaps lost faith altogether.

I know a man who as prayed for many, hundreds at least over the last 40 yrs., the Lord has healed instantly, over a space of time, and some were not healed and some died. He tells it straight up, he does not know why they did not receive their healing. He does not blame them for lack of faith, or for sin, or anything at all. He believes it is God perfect will for all His children to be well and live but he's an honest man and just says I don't know. And when I say healed like from cancer, blindness, deafness, Aspergers, bi-polar, etc. The Lord heals more than we know but your right that not all receive and no honest person can say they know why.
 
We have seen all of Mark 16:17-18 except the snakes, and all of Matthew 10:7-8 except the part about the lepers. We have friends and family by marriage who see it all very frequently.EDITED

Matthew 10 - takes place before the resurrection. The Holy Spirit has not been given to all believers at this time. Jesus was very clearly telling the 12 that they were to go out and perform these signs and wonders and only to the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel.
but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, [h]preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven [i]is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.

Mark 16 - 14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These [d]signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.â€

The account in Mark is after the resurrection. Now all believers received the Holy Spirit. Here we see Jesus again sending out the 11 now, to preach to ALL creation, salvation and baptism. And those who have believed will...they will...they will... So the you has now become the they.

I believe this scripture is also very clear in who shall now do these things as well as the disciples.

You don't like the WoF people but I see you doing much the same thing. Taking very clear scripture pulling out verses here and there to fit with what you believe. Please don't do that. There are scriptures that show that not just the disciples were called to do these things and to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Use those clear scriptures only as proof.

I believe we have this authority straight from the mouth of Jesus and don't see anywhere that it was ever suppose to stop until the perfect comes and that is Jesus. When Jesus comes back there will be no need for the gifts.
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9part; 10 but wh For we know in part and we prophesy in but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror [e]dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the [f]greatest of these is love.

This is the apostle Paul talking the man who probably received more revelation knowledge directly from the Lord than any man who ever lived and yet we see he says WE know in part, not you know in part.

I know many teach this perfect has come they say it is the Bible but that just ring true to me. Face to face with the Bible? Mo face to face with Jesus, either at His second coming or when we stand before Him.
Are we to say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are childish things? But compared to then we are children now.
Are there still not unsaved Jews and Gentiles alike who are not saved that when they see these things they believe? Yes there are. Are there not still sick who need healing?
Did Jesus not care about the unsaved Jews now like He did when He sent out the 12. There are Messianic Jews right now who are operating in the gifts and with other signs and wonders around the world and Jews are still getting born again.
We see the church in Corinth. (unrulely as they were, Paul straightened them out on order) operating in the gifts. He never said, Jesus never said these gifts were for one or two generations. Or that only the apostles could lay hands on the sick, no he told the elders to in the church.

So that's all I've got right now it's 2am here. If anyone sees that I am clearly in error in my interpretation please feel free to advise me. But I'll tell you this I don't think anyone except the Holy Spirit could rip this teaching from me. When I received it I was in a Baptist Church that the gifts were gone and what was done now was from Satan. I was a baby like 2 months old had never heard of the gifts, never read the Bible about the gifts, never been in a Charismatic Church of any kind. It was just me, Bible and the Holy Spirit. But that's another story...not for here.
 
Matthew 10 - takes place before the resurrection. The Holy Spirit has not been given to all believers at this time. Jesus was very clearly telling the 12 that they were to go out and perform these signs and wonders and only to the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel.
but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, [h]preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven [i]is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.

Mark 16 - 14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These [d]signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

The account in Mark is after the resurrection. Now all believers received the Holy Spirit. Here we see Jesus again sending out the 11 now, to preach to ALL creation, salvation and baptism. And those who have believed will...they will...they will... So the you has now become the they.

I believe this scripture is also very clear in who shall now do these things as well as the disciples.

You don't like the WoF people but I see you doing much the same thing. Taking very clear scripture pulling out verses here and there to fit with what you believe. Please don't do that. There are scriptures that show that not just the disciples were called to do these things and to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Use those clear scriptures only as proof.

I believe we have this authority straight from the mouth of Jesus and don't see anywhere that it was ever suppose to stop until the perfect comes and that is Jesus. When Jesus comes back there will be no need for the gifts.
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9part; 10 but whFor we know in part and we prophesy in but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror [e]dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the [f]greatest of these is love.

This is the apostle Paul talking the man who probably received more revelation knowledge directly from the Lord than any man who ever lived and yet we see he says WE know in part, not you know in part.

I know many teach this perfect has come they say it is the Bible but that just ring true to me. Face to face with the Bible? Mo face to face with Jesus, either at His second coming or when we stand before Him.
Are we to say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are childish things? But compared to then we are children now.
Are there still not unsaved Jews and Gentiles alike who are not saved that when they see these things they believe? Yes there are. Are there not still sick who need healing?
Did Jesus not care about the unsaved Jews now like He did when He sent out the 12. There are Messianic Jews right now who are operating in the gifts and with other signs and wonders around the world and Jews are still getting born again.
We see the church in Corinth. (unrulely as they were, Paul straightened them out on order) operating in the gifts. He never said, Jesus never said these gifts were for one or two generations. Or that only the apostles could lay hands on the sick, no he told the elders to in the church.

So that's all I've got right now it's 2am here. If anyone sees that I am clearly in error in my interpretation please feel free to advise me. But I'll tell you this I don't think anyone except the Holy Spirit could rip this teaching from me. When I received it I was in a Baptist Church that the gifts were gone and what was done now was from Satan. I was a baby like 2 months old had never heard of the gifts, never read the Bible about the gifts, never been in a Charismatic Church of any kind. It was just me, Bible and the Holy Spirit. But that's another story...not for here.
If we assume that the scripture is only for those it was addressed to the Bible is not written to any of us. Jesus spoke to His disciples and the Jews, the epistles were written to specific churches.
If the woman in Matthew 15:21-21 took Jesus' word and that of the apostles given DIRECTLY to her she would have received NOTHING. http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49324&p=753384#post753384
Please read 2 Timothy 3:16-17; it says ALL. Be it to us according to our faith.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not necessary to do what Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 say. It says those who BELIEVE not those who have the gifts and those who have "freely received" in Matthew 10:7-8. Jesus was not speaking of the Holy Spirit at that point in Matthew, just the power of the gospel.
Jesus blessed you with a revelation of the gifts. What are you doing about His revelation? Have you received the Acts 2:4 experience with the initial evidence of speaking in new tongues?
You feel about what Jesus has revealed to you the same as I feel about divine healing and why he allows Christians to go the medical system.
It is for the hardness of their hearts. They are paying a horrible and unnecessary price for that hardness which is one reason I post what I do about divine healing. Some will receive.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41834&highlight=
 
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Have you received the Acts 2:4 experience with the initial evidence of speaking in new tongues?

Exactly WHAT new tongue? What you people in the "Word of Faith" movement (or what ever it is called these days) call a "new tongue" is only gibberish to me.
I've been there, in one of those churches, back in the early '90's.

When you can show me someone who suddenly speaks in a known language, call me, until then, it's nothing more than delusion and dishonesty.

God is not the author of confusion, is He?
 
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Exactly WHAT new tongue? What you people in the "Word of Faith" movement (or what ever it is called these days) call a "new tongue" is only gibberish.
I've been there, in one of those churches, back in the early '90's.

When you can show me someone who suddenly speaks in a known language, call me, until then, it's nothing more than delusion and dishonesty.

God is not the author of confusion, is He?
When you can show me someone who suddenly speaks in a known language, call me, until then, it's nothing more than delusion and dishonesty.
1 Corinthians 13:1New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Tongues is ALWAYS one of the above and not known to the speaker.

Here is the scripture: Acts 2:4, Acts 2:38-39, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:1-6.
1 Corinthians 14:4-5 and 14-18.
Purpose of praying in tongues: Jude 20, 1 Corinthians 14:2, 1 Corinthians 14:16-17, Ephesians 5:18, Romans 8:26-27.
No, God is not the author of confusion. If one does not understand what the Bible says about tongues it can be confusing.
 
I know what the bible says about it, the point is that what is going on in the "WOF" movement is not what is described in the Bible.
As such gifts disappeared long ago.
 
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I know what the bible says about it, the point is that what is going on in the "WOF" movement is not what is described in the Bible.
It is gibberish, as such gifts disappeared long ago.
EDITED

The scriptures are clear and cannot be challenged! I will pray in the spirit and I will pray in my understanding also.

Sorry if some dont like it? But I thank my God I pray in tongues more than you all.

The time is coming when every believer will be baptised in the Fire of the Holy Spirit. For this is a commandment of Christ!
 
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The time is coming when every believer will be baptised in the Fire of the Holy Spirit. For this is a commandment of Christ!

But the believer is already baptized in this lifetime, others will refuse his salvation. Hi Mitspa.
 
13 Though I speak with thetongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
 
13 Though I speak with thetongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Love, faith and obedience are NEVER separated in the Bible. All 3 go together or none at all. Hebrews 11:6, 1 Corinthians 13:1, John 14:15-16, John 14:21-22, John 14:23-24, 1 John 5:1-3
 
But I thank my God I pray in tongues more than you all.
With all due respect, Mitspa, do you think this statement is a bit presumptuous? Painting with too broad a brush can be dangerous I think. Just a thought.

Carry on.
 
Right you are.

But they CAN be interpreted a thousand ways, many of them WRONG.
Which is why Jesus said disciples need the Holy Spirit baptism.
John 16:13-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.[a]
 
With all due respect, Mitspa, do you think this statement is a bit presumptuous? Painting with too broad a brush can be dangerous I think. Just a thought.

Carry on.
Of course you know that its a quote of Paul. But it does relate to how I personally feel very thankful for the gift of spiritual prayer.
And I have come to respect many on this forum and attempt to honor their faith and love of God. It is painful to me to hear from these same people such harsh words about that which I honor and that which is so evident in scripture. I do try to keep from needless offense and to look into scripture and others views in an honest way? Sometimes I seem to fail but I do love those in whom I see the love Of God. I ask that the same respect be given to the "charismatic" groups as that which is shown to other groups? I hope that those who love God and His word would at least allow that we can debate the scriptures without some of the more offensive statements that seem to be very common on the forum?
 
Right you are.

But they CAN be interpreted a thousand ways, many of them WRONG.
I agree that many make many mistakes in the proper use of the gifts and how certain scriptures are interpreted.

I do not understand it all! and very well may never have a full understanding of the fullness of these gifts.

But that the gift of "tongues" or praying in the spirit is not understood by the natural mind is clear and evident.

Whether everyone who claims to have this gift has the true gift, i doubt very much and have seen much that seems more along the lines of confusion than a divine plan of God.

but the real is very real and clearly defined in scripture.
 
Of course you know that its a quote of Paul. But it does relate to how I personally feel very thankful for the gift of spiritual prayer.
And I have come to respect many on this forum and attempt to honor their faith and love of God. It is painful to me to hear from these same people such harsh words about that which I honor and that which is so evident in scripture. I do try to keep from needless offense and to look into scripture and others views in an honest way? Sometimes I seem to fail but I do love those in whom I see the love Of God. I ask that the same respect be given to the "charismatic" groups as that which is shown to other groups? I hope that those who love God and His word would at least allow that we can debate the scriptures without some of the more offensive statements that seem to be very common on the forum?

I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention.

I just know from personal experience that when I use words like "all, always, never,..." I often times end up pulling my foot out of my own mouth.
 
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

This highlite comes from my personal life.....brought to mind by this thread......The 2 Grandmothers I was blessed both were Christians. Both spoke in tongues.... As people go one was kinder more loving. Did stuff for other folks , had more compassion . Did not make a highly public showing of tongues.. Gave of herself, all those wonderful attributes we like to see in Christians .. The other one bragged about being Spirit filled. Believed one was not saved with the 'evidence' . She was flat out grumpy... Growing older this verse and the life lesson have come together.
 
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BTW, I don't believe in speaking in tongues; I'm not from a Pentecostal background; but....

Just wondered now; since a lot of young people like to get tongue bars pierced in (seems to be the fashion), does it affect speaking in tongues? I never made the connection before now, but I suppose some people must have thought about it, if it's a problem, anyway.
 
BTW, I don't believe in speaking in tongues; I'm not from a Pentecostal background; but....

Just wondered now; since a lot of young people like to get tongue bars pierced in (seems to be the fashion), does it affect speaking in tongues? I never made the connection before now, but I suppose some people must have thought about it, if it's a problem, anyway.
Farouk will you consider changing your user name to.....
bth_BUNNY.jpg
 
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