Why did God create hell?

[conchoreb]

Please don't tell me, "so there would be a place for the unsaved to go when they die".
Let's work on the belief that hell exists, which I do believe. And let's understand that God doesn't send people there, they go there by not accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you disagree I don't really want to discuss it here. What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls.
I know some believe in universal salvation and annihilation (the JWs for the latter) but, again, I don't want to discuss these alternative views of hell and eternal life just any sources that shed light on why the hell of evangelical Christian belief was created.
If this topic is "old hat" accept my apology as I'm new to the Forum.

 

[Barabas]

So Democrats have someplace to get away from Rushbo... :rolling

hell exists, which I do believe. And let's understand that God doesn't send people there, they go there by not accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you disagree I don't really want to discuss it here.

Oooooooo..kay?!?

What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls.

I'm not aware of scriptures that explain in detail why God has such a place, perhaps making the lost stand in line at the DMV was considered too cruel.
How did you come to believe what you believe? Did you not already study this subject to accept it?

 

[Robin]

Hell was "prepared for the devil and his angels" (demons) according to Matthew 25:41, which to some people might suggest that it wasn't intended for humans. But Scripture knows no such God who cannot forsee the future and who must deal with "unintended consequences."

The idea that the unsaved are punished in everlasting fire used to bother me very much, too, especially since I have close family members who probably qualify. If I were God, I would annihilate the unsaved, totally erasing them from existence rather than pour out wrath unpon wrath eternally upon them. But two things strikes me that change my mind about that:

First, God's hatred of evil MUST be at LEAST as lavish as His love. Since His LOVE is boundless, and He loves so deeply and eternally, must not His HATRED be equally everlasting and equally lavish?

Secondly, You and I tend to see humans who end up in hell as "victims," tricked into damnation by Satan. But the Bible is clear that humans, left to their own devices, are wholly evil, desperately wicked, deceitful, and bloodthirsty. There is none righteous. No, not one. Humans who are redeemed in Christ receive MERCY. But humans who receive damnation receive JUSTICE.

JUSTICE is when we get what we deserve! MERCY is when we DON'T get what we deserve. God is under no obligation to grant mercy to anyone! If mercy was His OBLIGATION, then it couldn't be called mercy at all! None of us is ENTITLED to mercy. Quite the opposite!

As humans, we find that view objectionable. But when we disagree with God, it is we who are wrong, not Him. In another post here I described how I went through the Bible - especially the Old Testament - and put a red "X" in the margin to mark an instance where I was offended by God's actions. When I thought He was too harsh, I put an X there. When I felt He had acted randomly or capriciously or that the punishment didn't fit the crime, I put an X in the margin. Each of those Xs represented an area where I disagreed with God.

But as I looked more closely at those stories that so offended me (Nadab and Abihu, for instance, Uzzah who got zapped for trying to steady the toppling Ark during transport, God's orders to kill everything that breathed in Canaan, etc), I found that those who suffered God's wrath deserved it after all (explained in that other post). In fact, I had failed to put one of my red Xs in the margin of the one instance in all of Scripture where a truly innocent Person suffered unfairly.

The one I missed explains it all, and completely changed my mind about eternal hell fire and eternity in God's presence. Only once in all of history has an innocent suffered. The wonder is not that God shows mercy to some and justice to the rest. The wonder is that He would show mercy to anyone at all!

Posted with ForumPilot Freeware v1.1

 

[conchoreb]

To Barabas,
I debated whether or not I should reply as you seemed just a little too flippant in your posting and didn't really answer my question, but I decided to respond anyway.
You said,"Oooooooo..kay?!?" in response to my statement:
"hell exists, which I do believe. And let's understand that God doesn't send people there, they go there by not accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you disagree I don't really want to discuss it here."
I assume your "Oooooooo..kay" was prompted by me saying I didn't want to discuss my belief in hell or that not accepting Christ as one's Savior will send one there.
Well, that was the "ground rule" I put in place so I would get an answer to my question instead of having the discussion get off topic and end up who knows where with no answers forthcoming.
Then you closed your post by asking me:
"How did you come to believe what you believe? Did you not already study this subject to accept it?"
To answer your last question first--of course I've studied the subject and that's what I'm trying to continue doing by posting this question on this forum.
And to answer your first question--"'cause the Bible tells me so." Hell is frequently and clearly, to my satisfaction, mentioned throughout scripture.
*******************************************************************************************************************
To Robin,
Thanks for your excellent answer! Of course, as I read it I realized that I knew most of this, but had lost alot of it in the old "brain files". And though your reply was very helpful it still leaves me wanting answers that I can more easily wrap my mind around, sink my teeth into, whatever.
However, I agree with just about everything you said, though I don't regard the hellbound as victims as God really has no victims. "Unfortunates" would be closer to it.
Again, thanks.

 

[tim-from-pa]

If I were God, I would annihilate the unsaved

That's exactly what He does. Hell Fire is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. The sentence, in other words, is forever.

Man does not have an immortal soul. He's like my computer here (hardware, software and power in lieu of body soul and spirit). When my computer "dies", it ceases to exist. In order for it to come back to life it has to be resurrected by my fixing the problem.

Same with a human being. "The soul that sins shall die". Without Christ, there is no afterlife whatsoever, but Jesus said that ALL people will be resurrected--- some to life and some to damnation. Then those who are damned will be burned up and then forever lost and gone. That's the intrinsic meaning of the word "perish" and the "second death".

If one suffers conscious eternal torment in hell, then they are ALIVE, but tortured. The bible says that such people, however, will DIE. If i was smart, I'd place a wager for anyone to prove otherwise in these uncertain economic times because I'd know I'd win.

Now as for the Devil and His angels, they are not people, but immortal spirit beings so they can be burning forever, but Satan wants people to think that his fate is also their fate.

 

[Paidion]

And let's understand that God doesn't send people there, they go there by not accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you disagree I don't really want to discuss it here.

What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls.

I know some believe in universal salvation and annihilation (the JWs for the latter) but, again, I don't want to discuss these alternative views of hell and eternal life just any sources that shed light on why the hell of evangelical Christian belief was created.

What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls.

Since you do not want to discuss any of the matters which might answer your question, then I can confidently predict that you are not going to find an answer.

 

[conchoreb]

Paidion,
Why do you say that? I want to discuss my question: WHY DID GOD CREATE HELL?
Is that difficult for everyone to grasp? I don't want to discuss if hell exists. I don't want to discuss what it takes to go there. I WANT TO DISCUSS WHY GOD CREATED HELL!
Why you think diverging from the question will answer the question is beyond me.

 

[Paidion]

Let me give you a little analogy which help you see that your request with these exclusions is self-defeating:

Somebody please tell me why Jesus died.

I don't want to discuss theories of atonement. I don't want to discuss how people get saved. I don't want to discuss the nature of sin. I don't want to discuss the consequences of sin.

All I want to know is why Jesus died!

 

[guibox]

Yes concho,

It is hard to answer your question when in doing so we are forced to reject biblical evidence to the contrary that can explain or revise your statement. You can't argue your point without bringing all this other stuff in. When we look at your question and search the scriptures, we can find no answer because the very question you have opens up a can of worms.

Why indeed would God create such a place?
If God created hell, He did it before the world began. That means that He created a place deliberately for punishment, KNOWING that man would sin. There is no reformative purpose for hell..only pain and suffering.

If this is the case, than we must conclude that God WANTS to punish sinners in hell for there is not logical or rational reasont to create it. Now couple that with the belief that man was created with an immortal soul and we have another strike against God.

He creates a place for no reason but punishment, He creates it before man sinned and gives man immortality to suffer it knowing that the majority of the human race would 'choose' hell.

This goes against the very nature of God and the salvation history of man and sin.

The wages of sin is death - Romans 6:23

When man sinned he brought eternal death on his head. Had it not been for the atoning sacrifice and resurrection of Christ, man would have stayed dead for ever.

All of these terms are biblical terms that describe the fate of the wicked: The fires at the end of time 'consume', 'bring to ashes', 'waste away', 'burn up', 'devour' the wicked until they 'have never been', 'are no more', 'consume away into smoke'.

The fires at the end of time are called 'hell'.They were PREPARED for the devil and his angels (If I tell you that I've got a meal all prepared, that can mean that it is formulated in my head and ready to go), but that doesn't mean that it is a place that God created already and has prepared RIGHT NOW. This is a midieval Catholic belief that has no biblical merit; that sinners 'souls' go to hell at death and are being tormented right now. You see, fire comes down out of heaven to destroy the earth and cleanse the earth from sin so 'a new heaven and a new earth' can be made. Sinners are merely caught in the crossfire and are destroyed along with it. This is what Revelation 14:10-11 and Revelation 20 are describing. The final, end time judgment where sinners are tormented for a time but are eventually annihilated.

 

[conchoreb]

Why I put parameters around what to discuss was because I didn't want a prolonged and tangential discussion outside the limits I asked for. Now, that may be "narrow" on my part and I'm certain it is frustrating to those who want to share their thoughts on hell--if it exists, and if it exists what is its nature and purpose, etc., etc. But I was mainly hoping that someone could point me to either biblical, or perhaps more helpfully to some theological works that would answer the question that is the subject of this topic--not just personal opinion no matter how well informed it may be.
I would hope all can appreciate my position. Perhaps a forum by its very nature is not where I need to pursue this information but it seemed like a good place to start.
I guess, though it sounds unfriendly, (and it's not meant to be my brethren!) I didn't want to hear from/argue with those who disagree with the beliefs I described. Again, I just wanted an answer to my question using the guidelines I put down.

 

[Nick]

I have to agree with Paidion, it is very hard to answer your question with the "guidelines" you have put down. Perhaps you could open up your mind a bit and be willing to explore other ideas to find your answer. Sometimes there is another way to do things.

I do not think God created hell, but he just does not dwell there. Hell is the only place that God is not. Anywhere that God isn't, is going to be the worst place you can think of - the complete opposite of heaven. So just by not being there and Satan being there, hell existed.

 

[mutzrein]

Let me give you a little analogy which help you see that your request with these exclusions is self-defeating:

Somebody please tell me why Jesus died.

I don't want to discuss theories of atonement. I don't want to discuss how people get saved. I don't want to discuss the nature of sin. I don't want to discuss the consequences of sin.

All I want to know is why Jesus died!

Jesus died that man might have life.

 

[XTruth]

Wow, Conchoreb, sorry for the people who can't just stick to the topic of the thread. I completely understand your intent and objections. Don't let this discourage you from this forum. It is a good forum.

 

[guibox]

What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls..

Okay...but unfortunately, you are not going to get much more than speculation and human philosophy.Here are reasons given for you questions. Biblically there isn't much to support the notion that God created hell, or blatantly for what purpose.

Matthew 24:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

This text tells us that 'hell' was ultimately for the devil and his angels. When this was 'prepared' or in what fashion is not told by us in the text. The context of Matthew 24 is at the very end of time and Revelation 20 gives us the impression that the final judgment of fire is dished out at the end. We can assume, based on complete lack of evidence to the contrary) that the fire is 'prepared' at the end of time and not from the foundation of the world.

Other than that, you are not going to get an answer biblically for the question, 'Did God create hell and why?' Most theological wranglings are more to the nature of hell as to why it was created but perhaps we can deduct some reasons..

Other reasons

A sin against and infinite God deserves an infinite punishment- Because man sinned against God and because God is holy, than their must be a punishment that is eternal as well. Sin is so awful that there must be an equally horrible punishment. God is just, therefore, this hell that was created is just. Matthew 25:46 is used by many to support this argument and eternal torment.

God is God and we are not to question Him - Many say that it is not our place to question hell. It is there, we don't really know why it is there (except simply for punishment)God is sovereign and hell is fully just as God can do know evil. It is not our place to question God's motives.

Sadly, conch...that's it. There is nothing really there that gives credence to an affirmative to your question. I have not gone into the problems even with the above criteria. Suffice it to say, that the doctrine of hell and eternal torment is mostly derived from an esiegesis of the text (going from the inside out without taking context into consideration) and not an exegetical comparison with like passages.

If you want to know more, please PM me as I wil respect your desire to keep this thread on track. I find it interesting (but not surprising) that those who believe in hell haven't come forth with anything plausible to defend this or answer your question.

 

[Joe67]

Please don't tell me, "so there would be a place for the unsaved to go when they die".
Let's work on the belief that hell exists, which I do believe. And let's understand that God doesn't send people there, they go there by not accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. If you disagree I don't really want to discuss it here. What I want is biblical, or at least bible scholarship, sources explaining why God created such a place for the unsaved instead of just annihilating their souls.
I know some believe in universal salvation and annihilation (the JWs for the latter) but, again, I don't want to discuss these alternative views of hell and eternal life just any sources that shed light on why the hell of evangelical Christian belief was created.
If this topic is "old hat" accept my apology as I'm new to the Forum.

conchoreb,

I have read all the posts through this time, though I am quoting your first.

Before we can understand "why", which means "purpose"; we must know the "what" of a thing. From the content of your posts, it appears that your knowledge of the "what" of hell is from a minimal amount of Scriptural exposure. The dead body of Jesus our Lord is the summation of all that can be known of hell. Study those Scriptures that bring to view the dead body. Christ is all and in all. Digest Psalm 139 and especially verses 7 and 8. God will reveal his sure mercies of David to us as we partake of the Word in the Psalms and Moses and the prophets and above all Jesus' teachings and the words of the apostles he sent out in his name.

Beware of old wife's tales and vain jangling. Legalism stumbles in the darkness and philosophy spoils the faith of the children. Keep your feet on the ground. Mercy and grace will deliver us from hell and death.

Joe

 

[Nick]

There are some things, (like how and why questions) that the bible doesn't answer. This I believe is not because God doesn't want us to know about it, but because we don't need to know about it, or not just yet. The power of God is enormous and that is the biggest understatement ever, but we are not like God in that way, and the idea might be too big for us to get our heads round. Thee are some things that we just can't know.

 

[conchoreb]

Joe,
A minimal exposure to Scripture? Define minimal? I've read through the Bible cover to cover more than once and am currently doing so again. I've studied the Word in a less structured way on a daily basis for many years.
I don't agree that the "what" is necessary to understand the "why". I realize that a straight answer is hard to come by.

 

[conchoreb]

nick-29
Your most recent post I can accept.
Your earlier post suggesting I "open up my mind" I found patronizing. Also, in that post you said you didn't think God created hell, He just wasn't there. True He isn't there but He created everything! Lots of scripture backs that up but the one that came immediately to my mind was John 1:3

 

[duval]

Why did God create hell?? The Bible is always its own best commentary, God created it for the devil and his angels-----Matt.25:41

 

[conchoreb]

I agree Duval. Now what about man?