-
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Why did God say to Moses that he could not see God’s face and that no one could see God and live, yet Jacob saw God face to face and lived?
- Thread starter jmt356
- Start date
- Jan 11, 2020
- 5,827
- 3,486
I'm not sure. In fact I don't know. Sorry.
- Nov 23, 2012
- 15,017
- 4,990
Samson's parents were visited by an angel.
The angel said, "I am," and that his name is beyond understanding.
After he left, the wife said "We are doomed, we have just seen God."
I believe they spoke with and saw the incarnate Jesus, and not God the Father as was the case with Moses.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 40,368
- 8,433
And Hagar saw Him —
Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” Genesis 16:13
And Abram saw Him —
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1
And Moses —
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:6
And Samson’s parents —
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!” Judges 13:22
The short answer is, these were seeing the Son of God, not God the Father.
Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” Daniel 3:24-25
JLB
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,914
- 7,286
This if figurative and must be referenced within its contextual setting.
Truthfrees
Member
- May 24, 2017
- 4,440
- 3,921
did the others see God's face? - they said they did but i believe God - they maybe thought they saw God's face but they couldn't have because God said it is not possible to see God's face and live
- Jul 13, 2012
- 40,368
- 8,433
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!” Judges 13:22
I believe they saw the Son of God.
Who appeared to them as well as Moses and Hagar.
Do you believe the Son of God is God?
JLB
- Nov 23, 2012
- 15,017
- 4,990
Are you saying there are some scriptures you don't believe?
- May 4, 2020
- 2,931
- 1,322
Fascinating question. The Trinity (Father, Son, Spirit) is a mystery and therefore the answer is probably is incomprehensible to some degree. Nevertheless, I'll take a vain attempt to answer.
What do we know ...
We know God is Spirit ... what does that mean ... well, we don't know exactly. We know by negation that this means He has no material organization, that he has neither body nor members of the body such as we have, neither shape or form, neither passions nor limitations, but only a spiritual nature. Therefore, His Divine nature is not visible and therefore it cannot be seen.
We know God's divine nature is omnipresent. This means He is everywhere. Man is not capable of seeing anything that is everywhere because God is too big to see and because He is present with every atom, He is in a sense too small too see.
Conclusion 1: God is not visible so man cannot see Him
Premise 1: Christ is visible.
Premise 2: Christ is God (John 20:28)
Conclusion2: God is visible so man can see Him
Conclusion1 and conclusion2 contradict. One must be wrong .... or something is missing ....
THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION
A RATIONAL SOUL IN CHRIST. Moreover, our Lord Jesus Christ did not have a soul bereft of sense and reason, nor flesh without a soul, but a soul with its reason, and flesh with its senses, by which in the time of his passion he sustained real bodily pain, as himself testified when he said: "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death" (Matthew 26:38). And, "Now is my soul troubled" (John 12:27).
TWO NATURES IN CHRIST. We therefore acknowledge two natures or substances, the divine and the human, in one and the same Jesus Christ our Lord (Hebrews 2). And we say that these are bound and united with one another in such a way that they are not absorbed, or confused, or mixed, but are united or joined together in one person the properties of the natures being unimpaired and permanent.
NOT TWO BUT ONE CHRIST. Thus we worship not two but one Christ the Lord. We repeat: one true God and man. With respect to his divine nature he is consubstantial with the Father, and with respect to the human nature he is consubstantial with us men, and like us in all things, sin excepted (Hebrews 4:15).
THE DIVINE NATURE OF CHRIST IS NOT PASSIBLE, AND THE HUMAN NATURE IS NOT EVERYWHERE. Therefore, we do not in any way teach that the divine nature in Christ has suffered or that Christ according to his human nature is still in this world and thus is everywhere. For neither do we think or teach that the body of Christ ceased to be a true body after his glorification, or was deified, and deified in such a way that it laid aside its properties as regards body and soul, and changed entirely into a divine nature and began to be merely one substance.
Note: Arminians in general believe the divine nature is PASSIBLE
Note2: This is refered to as the hypostatic union by theologians: the union of man and God. This is a mystery to some degree. Christ was called the son of God (divine nature) and son of man (human nature). The human nature of Christ was not all knowing (Mark 13:32 ... Muslims use that as a cudgel), while the divine nature of Christ is all-knowing. The human nature cried and got tired, while the divine nature does neither (Arminians might disagree).
As Christ is a hypostatic union of God and man, so are the Old Testament Theophanies, some of which were mentioned in posts above. Often (always) the name "the Angel of God" refers to a theophany. Joshau 5:13-15; Genesis 22:15-17; Judges 2:2; Hagar, Abraham and Isaac, burning bush, pillar of fire, Jacob's wrestling match, yahda, yahda. All these material beings were mysteriously united with the divine in such a way that they are not absorbed, or confused, or mixed, but are united or joined together in one person the properties of the natures being unimpaired and permanent.
So, the apparent contradiction above proving God can be seen yet cannot be seen is solved to some degree by the doctrine of the hypostatic union.
Aside: Did all the theophanies involve the Second Person and human flesh (or fire or pillar of fire) .... I don't know. Most theologians believe so. I would like to see proof. Why didn't the Father or Spirit form the union. As all three have the save essence and are capable ... perhaps it doesn't matter.
Aside2: Was Melchizedek a hypostatic union? Split decision from what I have read. Just to pick side, I say yes.
Truthfrees
Member
- May 24, 2017
- 4,440
- 3,921
i'm saying people are recorded in scripture saying they saw God - God is recorded in scripture saying they did not see Him- i believe what God says about what people said
- Nov 23, 2012
- 15,017
- 4,990
Everything in the Bible is true.
So there are passages you don't understand.
You believe Jesus is God?
Truthfrees
Member
- May 24, 2017
- 4,440
- 3,921
i think it is perhaps you who don't understand - maybe judge yourself rather than others 1 Corinthians 11:31
Romans 2:1 - Matthew 7:2 -
bye
- Nov 23, 2012
- 15,017
- 4,990
My oh my, you are unable to support believing in Jesus as being God.
What kind of
Christianity runs this forum?
Yes, I'm speaking to you too stovebolts.
- Nov 23, 2012
- 15,017
- 4,990
John 16:8-9
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;
- Sep 26, 2019
- 2,611
- 917
- Sep 26, 2019
- 2,611
- 917
agreed
- Jul 13, 2012
- 40,368
- 8,433
Angels are spirits.
- Sep 26, 2019
- 2,611
- 917
- Jul 13, 2012
- 40,368
- 8,433
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,914
- 7,286
I think your reply is uncalled for.
Similar threads
