Why Didn't Jesus Know Everything?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Mark 13:32;

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".

If Jesus was really God, then why didn't he know this?

This is a Jehovah's Witness rebuttal question.

Any help here?

 

[farouk]

The Son is in voluntary subjection, though also omniscient. I am sure there are verses that prove both of these.

 

[theword]

That's because the flesh of Jesus wasn't God. Our Creator, who has been invisible forever, was the one who created all the flesh of His servants to have them speak the words He gives us to speak or write. Jesus was the first saint on earth to have God's knowledge to understand what happened during this age and where we're headed in the future. He was created as the "Voice of God" (Word of God, Christ, Kingdom of God, Heaven, etc.) like all the prophets and other saints. But the prophets were still living under the old covenant that all sinners were living under so they didn't receive the knowledge of God that us saints have to know about the future or how God created us. Now we know these things.

 

[smaller]

That's because the flesh of Jesus wasn't God. Our Creator, who has been invisible forever, was the one who created all the flesh of His servants to have them speak the words He gives us to speak or write. Jesus was the first saint on earth to have God's knowledge to understand what happened during this age and where we're headed in the future. He was created as the "Voice of God" (Word of God, Christ, Kingdom of God, Heaven, etc.) like all the prophets and other saints. But the prophets were still living under the old covenant that all sinners were living under so they didn't receive the knowledge of God that us saints have to know about the future or how God created us. Now we know these things.

Chalk up another basic foul.

Dividing God from Jesus is considered a heresy in most Trinitarian understandings. And rightfully so I might add.

As to what Jesus knew or didn't know, the 'didn't know' portion is largely guesswork on the part of the claimers. He may not have disclosed, but that doesn't mean He didn't know.

s

 

[John 8:32]

The Son is in voluntary subjection, though also omniscient. I am sure there are verses that prove both of these.

Here is one verse that supports the voluntary subjection...

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

There are others, this one came to mind immediately.

Also, being all powerful means that He can choose to not know something. Another ability God has is that He can choose to forget something, the harder we try to forget, the more deeply imbedded the memory becomes.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Another question to ask would be Is God Omniscient? It seems to me that oftentimes the believer seems to think that God would somehow be less "God" if He were not omniscient despite the apparent conclusion the scriptures give us that God may not have ever made such a claim about Himself. Could our need to have God fit into our view of what He should be be us sort of making an idol in our own minds of what we want in our god as opposed to accepting and submitting to who GOD actually is?

 

[smaller]

Another question to ask would be Is God Omniscient? It seems to me that oftentimes the believer seems to think that God would somehow be less "God" if He were not omniscient despite the apparent conclusion the scriptures give us that God may not have ever made such a claim about Himself. Could our need to have God fit into our view of what He should be be us sort of making an idol in our own minds of what we want in our god as opposed to accepting and submitting to who GOD actually is?

Open theology (among it's various components) makes the claim that God does not know everything.

The flaw in that claim is that the claimers don't know everything God knows nor do they have all the powers God has nor do they know the fullness or entirety of what God is or consists of, so they really can't logically make the claim they do.

but they do it anyway.

s

 

[Sinthesis]

Mark 13:32;

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".

If Jesus was really God, then why didn't he know this?

This is a Jehovah's Witness rebuttal question.

Any help here?

Jesus was using the context of a Jewish wedding to make a point. Within this pattern it is only the father who determines when the son is to go collect his bride. Thus it is only in His role as the Son of the Father that Jesus didn't know, yet as God Jesus surely did know. This veiling of His knowledge is similar to the way Christ consistantly refered to Himself as the Son of Man to veil His authority. The Trinity is difficult to accept for some people.

 

[Guest]

Jesus is not God the Father, but obtains the characteristics of the Father..and is within the same trinity. Jesus is the son, and deity means what it means. Our minds cannot comprehend the all knowing Father. If you try to understand, insanity lingers at your windowsill. ;)

 

[John Zain]

The Word (the Logos) was/is God (John 1:1).
The Word (the Logos) was with (Father) God in the beginning (John 1:1).
The Word (the Logos) became flesh, i.e. Jesus.
The Holy Spirit (God) played the Role of Jesus' "Father".
Therefore, Jesus was called "the Son of God".
"Son of God" and "Son of Man" are both to be found in the OT.
Jesus = the Son of God = the Christ = the Messiah.

Beyond all of that ...
One of the major reasons why "Jesus" came to earth
was to demonstrate how we are to live our lives:
-- humility (e.g. not insisting on knowing everything)
-- praying to the Father
-- trusting in the Father
-- trusting in the Holy Spirit to perform miracles
etc.

 

[WIP]

Mark 13:32;

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".

If Jesus was really God, then why didn't he know this?

This is a Jehovah's Witness rebuttal question.

Any help here?

I've never questioned this before but my first reaction is because He chose not to. God humbled himself to take on human likeness and therefore be subjected to the same temptations and limitations we have. That doesn't make him any less God but in my mind more so GOD and how much better can he possibly demonstrate his love for us than to humble himself in this way?

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I've heard it said that Jesus is the very embodiment of God's reason for creation and that the passages in John as well as 1st John illustrate that Jesus is the living purpose of God's creation as opposed to its message saying Jesus was in fact God.

 

[Free]

Mark 13:32;

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".

If Jesus was really God, then why didn't he know this?

This is a Jehovah's Witness rebuttal question.

Any help here?

I've never questioned this before but my first reaction is because He chose not to. God humbled himself to take on human likeness and therefore be subjected to the same temptations and limitations we have. That doesn't make him any less God but in my mind more so GOD and how much better can he possibly demonstrate his love for us than to humble himself in this way?

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

^This. This passage is absolutely key in understanding the nature of Jesus.


JW's, like every anti-trinitarian I've had discussions with, pit the humanity of Christ against his deity. They pit passages of Scripture speaking of his humanity, which no trinitarian denies, against those passages which clearly speak of his deity. And then they choose to reinterpret the passages speaking of his deity to mean something else, without any warrant for doing so. They turn Jesus' nature it into an either/or when it is really a both/and.

Just as the trinitarian should not ignore or reinterpret those passages speaking of Jesus' humanity in favor of those speaking of his deity, neither should the anti-trinitarian ignore or reinterpret those passages speaking of Jesus' deity in favor of those speaking of his humanity. Both are equal in error.

 

[Guest]

All the knowledge, power and glory come from the Father. That's why Jesus prayed to the Father. The way Jesus is different from you and I is that, he lived a perfect life and did not sin. Only someone with God deity characteristics can do that.

 

[Brother Mike]

Dividing God from Jesus is considered a heresy in most Trinitarian understandings. And rightfully so I might add.

This have anything to really do with some "Trinity" doctrine? I am sort of confused by some of the answers given. Jesus said Only His Father Knows the day and hour. There was no other scripture given to say Jesus knew then or knows now. We don't want to just assume or add to the Word, and Adding or taking away the Word has nothing to do with a "Trinity" Doctrine, but something we are told not to do and should obey that.

A belief in a "Trinity" Doctrine should be no indication to disobey by adding or removing things from the Word.

Jesus also said about the tree about to be chopped down this.

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.


This being a Parable describing the Spiritual with Natural would have been a very good opportunity for Jesus to say, "I know the end from the beginning and I know this tree will eventually make it for nobody takes anyone from my Fathers Hands."

Jesus did not say that. He said if that person repents, however I give that tree that does not produce fruit help and every chance to get things right (Saved to the utmost). If not, it's cut down.

1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?


When my own wife went off bad, I was told by the Lord to stand in faith for her. (Everyone's situation is different) My question to God was, "Why can't you just tell me if she is going to make it our not?" The answer is in the scripture, God don't know. So the Holy Spirit could not have told me.

I could write another page of these examples, but my point is I don't think this has to do with a Trinity Doctrine but more of a election doctrine.

Mike.

 

[smaller]

Dividing God from Jesus is considered a heresy in most Trinitarian understandings. And rightfully so I might add.

This have anything to really do with some "Trinity" doctrine? I am sort of confused by some of the answers given. Jesus said Only His Father Knows the day and hour. There was no other scripture given to say Jesus knew then or knows now. We don't want to just assume or add to the Word, and Adding or taking away the Word has nothing to do with a "Trinity" Doctrine, but something we are told not to do and should obey that.

Uh, yeah, it is a matter of dividing Jesus from God any way that attempt is made.

A belief in a "Trinity" Doctrine should be no indication to disobey by adding or removing things from the Word.

Jes sayin. We certainly might suppose many things, but a matter that is beyond suppositions is dividing Jesus from God. That is a basic foul.

There are other ways to view those statements than coming to a conclusion of division between The Father and The Son.

This being a Parable describing the Spiritual with Natural would have been a very good opportunity for Jesus to say, "I know the end from the beginning and I know this tree will eventually make it for nobody takes anyone from my Fathers Hands."

and your validation of that parable is what?

There are correct methods of approach for all parables as well.

It's not like we have to make things up through personal suppositions to get through the text.

Good theology students are familiar with certain rules. Some have no clue.

So a discussion of basic groundwork is always in order.

When my own wife went off bad, I was told by the Lord to stand in faith for her. (Everyone's situation is different) My question to God was, "Why can't you just tell me if she is going to make it our not?" The answer is in the scripture, God don't know. So the Holy Spirit could not have told me.

I gave up trying to personally guess my way past God. It was usually proven to be my 'lesser' personal imaginations.

I could write another page of these examples, but my point is I don't think this has to do with a Trinity Doctrine but more of a election doctrine.

You are welcome to imagine that dividing the knowledge of Jesus from God isn't a Trinity foul.

Many will not see it that way.

No offense to you, but that general method will always get rightfully cut short. There really are other ways to see it without making basic violations.

s

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

WIP nailed it. No one really needs to know the date or the hour anyway. Not the Angels, not Jesus, only the father. This does not detract from the trinity. That Jesus is part of the trinity, but doesn't know the day & hour means nothing. Think of how a family works. The dad is making a surprise party and want one of his sons to help prepare for it. The son does not need to know the details of the party and the exact time it will take place, merely what needs to be done in order to make the preparations for it, and his role in the preparations.

This wouldn't make the son not part of the family at all. The dad is just the only one to know the exact time the party will take place is all. The son knows of the party, and what he needs to do to help and do his part, and that's it. Pretty simple really. Not a big deal at all.

(So glad to see the site back up again!! Yay!)

A father and a son are 2 separate people.
Are God the father and Jesus 2 separate beings?

 

[Free]

WIP nailed it. No one really needs to know the date or the hour anyway. Not the Angels, not Jesus, only the father. This does not detract from the trinity. That Jesus is part of the trinity, but doesn't know the day & hour means nothing. Think of how a family works. The dad is making a surprise party and want one of his sons to help prepare for it. The son does not need to know the details of the party and the exact time it will take place, merely what needs to be done in order to make the preparations for it, and his role in the preparations.

This wouldn't make the son not part of the family at all. The dad is just the only one to know the exact time the party will take place is all. The son knows of the party, and what he needs to do to help and do his part, and that's it. Pretty simple really. Not a big deal at all.

(So glad to see the site back up again!! Yay!)

A father and a son are 2 separate people.
Are God the father and Jesus 2 separate beings?

It depends on who you ask. Some say that the early church Fathers believed they were separate beings, yet somehow the same God. Most Evangelicals believe that there is only one being that is God but three distinct persons.

 

[jasoncran]

good luck trying to understand the trinity. I say that as I was once a non-Trinitarian.

 

[Brother Mike]

jasoncran

good luck trying to understand the trinity. I say that as I was once a non-Trinitarian.

Thank you Jason, I trust you know what is going on about this thread and I now assume it's about protecting some Doctrine called the "Trinity" I am just the opposite. I use to be trinitarian, and only by something the Holy Spirit said to me made me check into things more. We often just run with the pace without question, and my Church does believe in this "Trinity" concept.

Jesus is the Word of God, Jesus is God, is what I always said and one day I was thanking Jesus for something, then said excuse me your God and felt sort of awkward calling Jesus God. He is the Father God After all that came in flesh. The Lord ask then, "Do you know who I am?, I am not my Father." It was one of those Holy Spirit moments where just a few words and all the blanks are filled in seconds that would have taken years to put together. If Jesus is a split personality of God, or just a different manifestation of "ONE" God then we have no advocate. Unless God just argues with a 1/3 of himself.

If there is a Son of God, then there are two thrones seated by God the Son, and God the Father. The son came for us, by whom all things were made.

So, being a scripture person I see that.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Jesus does not know, I can't find another scripture saying He knows when later and..................

Joh_14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, so I have scriptural comparison that the Father knows things the Son does not yet. These are scriptures, not some doctrine. To say Jesus does know, would be to say Jesus Lied. To say Jesus found out later would be to say that 1/3 Part of God is not keeping up on things and I am sure Trinity folk won't say that. They have to go into a Jesus was flesh theory, but Jesus was still God in the flesh so that won't wash either.

If Jesus said He don't know, then the Words of the Master, My King are good enough for me.

Mike.