Why do you believe?

[Logan Phipps]

Hello everyone, I am a recent christian turned agnostic. (Please don't try to change my view points) but I would like to know why you believe what you believe? I personally let go of Christianity for many reasons, 1. because I am not intrested in following a god that has no business in helping me or trying to make me better, I have prayed,prayed, and prayed some more, but nothing not one speck of help from him. 2. I was happy when I was an unbeliever, and when I because a christian I was sad, depressed, anxiety ridden and ocd ridden all because if christianity, before this I was fine, but these past few months have been the worst of my life and after a year of faith, I am done. I have given up of the god of Christianity. 3. Too many rules, I have been troubled by soany rules in my life that I simply could not live without worrying about of I was sinning and I got sick of it ang gave it up. I still believe there could be a god, but that god is not knowable and not able to understand. I also do not believe in sin or salvation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Also do you see how y'all argue back and forth over Scripture that is unprovable?

That's another negative aspect that I try not to participate in.

Satan confuses us which leads to argumentation which leads to chaos.

Now I know that y'all will say that "I know in my heart that it's true" but that's hardly quantitative.

That's just your opinion.

It's not so much that we argue, even though there are those that do and should not, but that we discuss our indifference's as we might not always agree with each other, but yet we love and respect one another as none of us will ever know everything, but only that of what God reveals to us by His Holy Spirit.

 

[Garion]

Do you believe in a work based salvation that you have to work for it, or by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves as it is the gift of God?

I'm new here and

It's not so much that we argue, even though there are those that do and should not, but that we discuss our indifference's as we might not always agree with each other, but yet we love and respect one another as none of us will ever know everything, but only that of what God reveals to us by His Holy Spirit.

Oh.... thanks.

 

[skyhigh]

I don't trust what early Christians wrote, I don't know them personally so I have no reason to.

God says to put your faith in HIM not anybody else.

Then you don't trust what is in the Bible. because they compiled it, wrote and decided what was in or out and Holy Spirit inspired.

 

[for_his_glory]

from a Catholics pov, sola scriptura is too rigid. we listen and access more than one source. Pope, Church fathers, Church hierarchy including catholic theologians. And there is the monastic tradition too which has an interesting monastic perspective. You want go broad, go catholic.

Was it you that said you were a Universalist or maybe it was someone else.

Our only source is not any Church, but needs to be that of the Holy Spirit that teaches us all that God wants revealed to us, John 14:26. Are all of us right all the time, no as we are still learning.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm new here and

Oh.... thanks.

Actually I was asking skyhigh that question about work based salvation.

I know you are new here and am glad you are here with us. It might help us to know some of the things your mother has taught you so we can get to know you better

 

[Garion]

No I trust what's in the Bible WITHIN REASON meaning the obvious good stuff like violence,incest,greed etc. are bad.

I trust the obvious stuff because....well... it's obvious AND I can quantify it with my own research.

I don't trust everything in it absolutely though, I will give a great example.

Adam and Eve the tree of knowledge.

The Bible says that Eve tasted from the God's Tree of Knowledge after He told her not to so He kicked them out.

It doesn't say anything about what happened to that stolen knowledge that Eve acquired after she got kicked out.

If you read between the lines? Eve still has that knowledge....God never took it back....the Bible don't say nothing bout that.

 

[Garion]

Sorry I thought that I quoted that for skyhigh.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is why I don't put absolute faith in Scripture.

I believe that there is a great chance that it has been corrupted by satan throughout the ages because there are incongruencies.

I believe that God's should be passed from generation to generation within the family.

I trust my mother with my life and soul which is as it should be.

Satan's ultimate goal is chaos he is achieving this with deceit and misdirection and Scripture may be part of that.

I say this because I've seen people who dedicate their life to Scripture yet they still miss God's point.

That is a fair statement from you. Have you received Jesus by that of the Spiritual rebirth Jesus taught in John 3:5-7 and confess Jesus as written in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If so, then you are His own as this is the basics of God's salvation. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Scripture can be confusing to us at times and this is why it is so important to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who teaches us if we are truly listening.

 

[Garion]

That is a fair statement from you. Have you received Jesus by that of the Spiritual rebirth Jesus taught in John 3:5-7 and confess Jesus as written in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If so, then you are His own as this is the basics of God's salvation. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Scripture can be confusing to us at times and this is why it is so important to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who teaches us if we are truly listening.

Thank you for enlightening me this is why I participate in sites like this.

 

[for_his_glory]

No I trust what's in the Bible WITHIN REASON meaning the obvious good stuff like violence,incest,greed etc. are bad.

I trust the obvious stuff because....well... it's obvious AND I can quantify it with my own research.

I don't trust everything in it absolutely though, I will give a great example.

Adam and Eve the tree of knowledge.

The Bible says that Eve tasted from the God's Tree of Knowledge after He told her not to so He kicked them out.

It doesn't say anything about what happened to that stolen knowledge that Eve acquired after she got kicked out.

If you read between the lines? Eve still has that knowledge....God never took it back....the Bible don't say nothing bout that.

The knowledge Eve had after eating of the tree of knowledge was that they were naked and sinned against God as they were not obedient to His command. The Bible has plenty to say about it if you read Genesis Chapter three. There is no in between the lines as it is very clear what knowledge Adam and Eve had on that day.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Was it you that said you were a Universalist or maybe it was someone else.

Our only source is not any Church, but needs to be that of the Holy Spirit that teaches us all that God wants revealed to us, John 14:26. Are all of us right all the time, no as we are still learning.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.[/QUOTE

Nope you were thinking of me. I'm partly a universalist.

 

[Garion]

The knowledge Eve had after eating of the tree of knowledge was that they were naked and sinned against God as they were not obedient to His command. The Bible has plenty to say about it if you read Genesis Chapter three. There is no in between the lines as it is very clear what knowledge Adam and Eve had on that day.

There aspects of the real world that you aren't aware of I think.
But you will God said somewhere that we don't understand now but one day we will.

 

[skyhigh]

No I trust what's in the Bible WITHIN REASON

Reading the Bible from a sceptical, atheistic pov is bound to be disappointing.
Your "reason" will be disappointed often because there are literary devices used which express a spiritual truth rather than actual fact. of course there are facts as well but it will be hard to know exactly which are which unless you get help from an educated theologian to understand it better.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you HeisRisen2018

Just curious, how can one be only partly? Does that mean you accept some of their teachings, but reject the full of who they are?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Thank you HeisRisen2018

Just curious, how can one be only partly? Does that mean you accept some of their teachings, but reject the full of who they are?

It basically means that I've come to know that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and because He did that a lot more people will be in Heaven than expected.

 

[for_his_glory]

There aspects of the real world that you aren't aware of I think.
But you will God said somewhere that we don't understand now but one day we will.

There are many things we do not understand yet, but we fully understand that of what Adam and Eve. They were disobedient to God and this is why the world is in such a sinful state today as through the generations many have walked away from God in disobedience as they have become lovers of self as they walk in their own will and not the will of God.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Just think how beautiful this world would be if everyone turned back to God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Reading the Bible from a sceptical, atheistic pov is bound to be disappointing.
Your "reason" will be disappointed often because there are literary devices used which express a spiritual truth rather than actual fact. of course there are facts as well but it will be hard to know exactly which are which unless you get help from an educated theologian to understand it better.

Sorry, but even educated theologians argue among themselves so why believe what they teach. Our teachings need to be from those who have the anointing of the Holy Spirit to teach us as all truths come by Gods Spirit and not mans doctrines. This is why it is so important to Spiritually discern what spirits are teaching us as one is error and the other is truth, 1 John 4:1-6.

 

[for_his_glory]

It basically means that I've come to know that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and because He did that a lot more people will be in Heaven than expected.

Even Satan knows that Jesus died and God raised Him again. Does that mean Satan will be in heaven also, no. It's only through that of John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10 and understanding that of Ephesians 2:8, 9 that we are saved and have eternal life with the Father.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Even Satan knows that Jesus died and God raised Him again. Does that mean Satan will be in heaven also, no. It's only through that of John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10 and understanding that of Ephesians 2:8, 9 that we are saved and have eternal life with the Father.

Well obviously Satan won't be there, but you asked what I believed so let's leave it at that.

 

[OzSpen]

you


you mean like scripture for instance?
we trust what early Christians wrote. Jesus made Peter the Rock of the Church, handed him the key and it has been an apostolic succession since then. Jesus had to leave someone in charge, otherwise the Word couldn't be passed down with any authority. And who wrote New testament? The Early Christian Church of course

It is not only Scripture and determining its reliability. What about the Early Church Fathers (ECF)? What do we find?

GNOSTICISM

c. 140 Valentinus begins teaching Gnostic views in Rome

144 Marcion is excommunicated for Gnostic-like views

c. 175 Basilides espouses Gnostic teachings in Alexandria

c. 180 Irenaeus writes Against the Heresies, opposing Gnosticism

c. 450 Gnostic sects diminish....

QUARTODECIMANISM

c. 155 Polycarp and others from Asia Minor advocate Nisan 14 as date of Easter

c. 190 Pope Victor insists on Sunday observance and tries to stamp out Quartodecimanism (“14th-ism”), though Irenaeus advocates tolerance

325 Council of Nicea accepts Alexandrian method of determining Easter

400 Rome begins using Alexandrian method....

MONTANISM

c. 157 Montanus begins prophesying that the Heavenly Jerusalem will soon descend in Phrygia, in Asia Minor

170s Montanism develops ecstatic and ascetic practices

c. 190 Montanism condemned by church councils in Asia Minor

c. 207 Tertullian converts to Montanism

c. 400 Montanism wanes but survives in pockets....

MONARCHIANISM

c. 190s Monarchianism (emphasizing God’s monarchia, “unity”—not the three persons) spreads

c. 200 Noetus condemned at Rome for Patripassianism (“the father suffers-ism”), the teaching that the Father suffered as the Son

268 Council of Antioch deposes Paul of Samosata and condemns Sabellianism (i.e., modalism: Father, Son, and Spirit are temporary manifestations of the same being) [source: Heresy in the Early Church: Christian History Timeline].​

How do we know these ECF were promoting heresy? By what standard do we judge the correctness or falsehood of this theology? By the Pope's standard or Scripture's standard or some other standard?

Oz