Why do you hate?

[Cat]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

 

[jasoncran]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

you confess the hatred of sin with hatred of the sinner, the former is good, as christian must abhor that which is evil, but cling to that wich is good.
i'm a former homosexual, i thank the lord for the christian who told me about the romans 1 chapter, she did it in love and told me that the lord says it sin, and the he will forgive me if repent.
we dont hate the sinner. some do and that's wrong

all sin is sin and all sin is evil.

 

[Blazin Bones]

It's a dangerous thing making generalizations. Just as it isn't true that "atheists" hate Christians and God, it isn't true that "Christians" hate homosexuals, fornicators, theifs, etc.

There are always some who do not fit this bill, but to generalize and assume something to be true isn't fair. So, Please, before you call us all hateful, please try to realize if it isn't always true for those who believe as you do, it isn't always true for those who believe as we do.

 

[JoJo]

I agree, generalizations are unfair. But Bones, does it bother you that this is the impression we might be giving off? Do we look like hypocrites?

 

[follower of Christ]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

So we only love our neighbor by ignoring the fact that their sin is going to take them straight into hell ?
Wouldnt it be loving them more to teach them how to avoid all that ?

 

[sheshisown]

Cat~

I have a question which I think may assist me in understanding your conception of Christians better...

Are you equating disapproval of a certain lifesytle with hatred of a person? Is disapproval the same as hatred in your estimation?

Just wondering if I am hearing what you are saying ~ or not.

Thanks~ sheshisown~ :shades

 

[GojuBrian]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

I'm sorry, do you know me?

 

[Cat]

you confess the hatred of sin with hatred of the sinner, the former is good, as christian must abhor that which is evil, but cling to that wich is good.
i'm a former homosexual, i thank the lord for the christian who told me about the romans 1 chapter, she did it in love and told me that the lord says it sin, and the he will forgive me if repent.
we dont hate the sinner. some do and that's wrong

all sin is sin and all sin is evil.

You say you're a former homosexual, I doubt that very much. In my eyes you're still gay (cause in my eyes homosexuality is not a sin, it's completely natural, and it is not a choice (nor a demon) but it's sexual orientation), you just choose not to be what you are supposed to be.
But obviously, this is what I think.

So, a sin is bad. And if you repent you will be forgiven?. So are you saying that anyone can commit a sin, and then as long as they repent, it's ok?

It's a dangerous thing making generalizations. Just as it isn't true that "atheists" hate Christians and God, it isn't true that "Christians" hate homosexuals, fornicators, theifs, etc.

There are always some who do not fit this bill, but to generalize and assume something to be true isn't fair. So, Please, before you call us all hateful, please try to realize if it isn't always true for those who believe as you do, it isn't always true for those who believe as we do.

I didn't call you all hateful, I said it seemed to me; based on personal experiences of the christians I know. I know a few, have met a fair few, and through what they have said and their reaction to certain topics, have based my opinion. Don't take it the wrong way.

I agree, generalizations are unfair. But Bones, does it bother you that this is the impression we might be giving off? Do we look like hypocrites?

I agree generalizations are bad, as I mentioned previously, I was basing what I said on my own personal experiences with christians.
But yes, when discussing things with friends and family, chritians can give the impression of being hypocrites, and narrow minded, and in some cases extremists.

So we only love our neighbor by ignoring the fact that their sin is going to take them straight into hell ?
Wouldnt it be loving them more to teach them how to avoid all that ?

I would say, shouldn't you love thy neighbour by actually loving them? Teaching them about something you believe is one thing, but surely you can accept them as being their own individual with their own beliefs? And if they happen to have different views to you, should you not accept them? See their uniqueness, and love them for who they are? Not who you think they should be?

Cat~

I have a question which I think may assist me in understanding your conception of Christians better...

Are you equating disapproval of a certain lifesytle with hatred of a person? Is disapproval the same as hatred in your estimation?

Just wondering if I am hearing what you are saying ~ or not.

Thanks~ sheshisown~ :shades

Not quite. Lifestyle is a choice, where as, for example, homosexuality, is not a lifestyle, it is not a choice, it is natural sexual orientation. And if you disapprove of it, it appears to me that you do indeed hate the person, for something they do not choose.

I'm sorry, do you know me?

No, I don't know you, but you don't know me either.
And all I'm doing is asking questions, is that bad?

 

[Blazin Bones]

It's a dangerous thing making generalizations. Just as it isn't true that "atheists" hate Christians and God, it isn't true that "Christians" hate homosexuals, fornicators, theifs, etc.

There are always some who do not fit this bill, but to generalize and assume something to be true isn't fair. So, Please, before you call us all hateful, please try to realize if it isn't always true for those who believe as you do, it isn't always true for those who believe as we do.

I didn't call you all hateful, I said it seemed to me; based on personal experiences of the christians I know. I know a few, have met a fair few, and through what they have said and their reaction to certain topics, have based my opinion. Don't take it the wrong way.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So when you said "You hate gay people", you were not addressing Chrisitans in general? You cannot make a General statement about Christians hating gays and then say you were not saying I, a Christian, am not hateful with such an earlier blanket statement.

I agree, generalizations are unfair. But Bones, does it bother you that this is the impression we might be giving off? Do we look like hypocrites?

It depends JoJo. If we are giving this idea because a person sees calling sin, sin as hate, then no. A sinner will see anyone who calls out thier sin as hateful. Take the Pharisees and Jesus for example.

If we are giving this idea because of something like the Texas issue with the dragging of a homosexual man several years back, than it bothers me deeply. I would Indeed call those people Hypocrits to their face, because yes Homosexuality is a sin, but so is attempting to murder a man.

 

[handy]

Hi Cat, welcome to the forum.

I wanted to point something out here in your posts:

You said, "Teaching them about something you believe is one thing, but surely you can accept them as being their own individual with their own beliefs? And if they happen to have different views to you, should you not accept them? See their uniqueness, and love them for who they are? Not who you think they should be?"

and then you said to Jason:

"You say you're a former homosexual, I doubt that very much. In my eyes you're still gay (cause in my eyes homosexuality is not a sin, it's completely natural, and it is not a choice (nor a demon) but it's sexual orientation), you just choose not to be what you are supposed to be."

So, in a sense you are rejecting what Jason is sharing about himself, something that those of us who have known Jason for a while now know to be true. But, because it contradicts what you believe about homosexuality, you don't accept what he has to say regarding himself. In effect you have told Jason, "You are wrong about what you believe about yourself, I know better than you what you are."

This is the same sort of attitude that is often condemned as "hatred" on the part of non-Christians against Christians. However, you know (as do I) that you didn't mean anything at all "hateful" towards Jason. It wasn't "hate" that brought you to reject what Jason has to say regarding himself, it was your own firmly held convictions. Christians have firmly held convictions as well.

Part of a Christian's firmly held conviction is the fact that if folks stay in a place of unbelief and unrepentance towards God, their future eternal life is at stake. Just as you believe firmly that Jason is gay, in spite of the fact that he just told you he was but no longer is, I believe firmly that if you remain in a state of unbelief and unrepentance, you will not share eternal life with God.

This is where hatred or love can win the day. If we dialog together, asking sincere questions of each other, respecting each other and refrain from assuming things about each other, we can more fully examine why we believe the way we do and hopefully, even if no one changes their own minds, be able to come away with better knowledge of each other.

But to come to a Christian forum and ask "Why do you hate" would be like me going to an atheist forum and asking "Why do YOU hate". Neither isn't the best way to start off a new relationship.

But, no matter. I'm glad you're here and hope that while you are here (for however long you stay) you will ask sincere questions and be open to the answers.

 

[Rick W]

Opposition isn't hate.
A different viewpoint isn't hate.

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

Opposition isn't hate and I believe you said so.
"disapprove of so much"
What I want to know is how did that get to, "You hate gay people "?

Narrow-minded?
I call it integrity, sticking with what one believes having the right of religious expression.
Hypocrisy?
I wouldn't point fingers so fast until you've walked yourself by a set of morals you honestly believe aren't your own but are worth the effort to follow.

I'll allow this thread to continue as long as you understand that your opposition to Christian morals or Christianity in general won't be misconstrued as hate as you've been so careful to point out.
However,
I also expect the same respect to be shown in like kind toward those who have a different point of view or basis for their moral beliefs than you do.

 

[TheCatholic]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.
You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

Disapproving of something does not equate into "Hate". Liberals love to sling the word "Hate" around like a weapon.

The reason why you have no problem with homosexual issues is because since you do not believe in a god, you have no higher moral authority than yourself and your own opinions. Christians, however, believe morality comes from a higher source, God, and we are therefore bound by that morality.

Stop slinging that word "Hate" around. It only poisons the debate. I think homosexual activity is un-natural and immoral. But I do not "hate" homosexuals as people.

 

[handy]

I was thinking of this thread and thinking of hate vs. love, and especially of hypocrisy. It reminded me of a painting I had seen a number of years back, a painting based upon William Booth's (he of Salvation Army fame) vision of the church and the lost.

I know that a lot of atheists and other non-Christians believe that Christians should just tolerate everyone and simply mind their own business. Any pointing out of someone's "sin" is by nature hypocritical because we all know that Christians sin as much as anyone else does.

We believe that those who die in their sins, who never repent and ask for forgiveness, (and yes, that was a question you asked Cat, those who ask for forgiveness will be forgiven) will spend eternity in hell rather than with God. We believe that this is a critical issue.

This painting illustrates the fact that it is the Christian who adopts a "tolerant" and a "live and let live" attitude, never sharing Christ, never expressing a concern over someone's true condition who is the true hypocrite and the one who is the most selfish and unloving.

 

[JoJo]

Perhaps there is a fine line between opposition and hate. Maybe we step over that line when we start using insults, mockery, sarcasm, name-calling, patronizing questions, slanderous assumptions, stereotype and other methods that demean a person's intelligence and character to get our points across.

 

[RND]

Disapproving of something does not equate into "Hate". Liberals love to sling the word "Hate" around like a weapon.

The reason why you have no problem with homosexual issues is because since you do not believe in a god, you have no higher moral authority than yourself and your own opinions. Christians, however, believe morality comes from a higher source, God, and we are therefore bound by that morality.

Stop slinging that word "Hate" around. It only poisons the debate. I think homosexual activity is un-natural and immoral. But I do not "hate" homosexuals as people.

See, we can agree on some things. :o

 

[seekandlisten]

This painting illustrates the fact that it is the Christian who adopts a "tolerant" and a "live and let live" attitude, never sharing Christ, never expressing a concern over someone's true condition who is the true hypocrite and the one who is the most selfish and unloving.

While I liked the insertion of that painting I would have to say I get a different meaning from it.

 

[TheCatholic]

Disapproving of something does not equate into "Hate". Liberals love to sling the word "Hate" around like a weapon.

The reason why you have no problem with homosexual issues is because since you do not believe in a god, you have no higher moral authority than yourself and your own opinions. Christians, however, believe morality comes from a higher source, God, and we are therefore bound by that morality.

Stop slinging that word "Hate" around. It only poisons the debate. I think homosexual activity is un-natural and immoral. But I do not "hate" homosexuals as people.

See, we can agree on some things. :o

 

[RND]

I have noticed that a lot of christians seems to disapprove of so much.

That's probably because there is so much to disapprove of.

As an atheist (I don't hate god, I just don't believe), I accept people for who they are, I try not to judge people, and I do what I can to help them if I can.

That's outstanding! Sounds like you'd make a fine Christian. Now, would you be willing to die for someone that hated you?

You may say I'm judging or hating christians, but I'm not, I'm trying to understand.

I wouldn't say that about you. I would say you are doing like everyone else, including a lot of Christians, and that is over-generalization.

You hate gay people because "it says so in the bible", yet you don't hate people who have sex with women during their periods, yet it says so in the bible. I could go on.

That's a rather broad and inconsistent with your argument statement. If God Himself doesn't hate gays then what gives me the right to hate them?

So, why do you hate/disapprove of certain people, and not others?

Man, that's the seemingly age ole question isn't it? I suppose if more people chose to look at the life of their Savior they would have that answer. Jesus didn't hate the woman caught in adultery, or her accusers. He was kind, caring and compassionate with both the accusers and the accused. God's like that.

And aren't you supposed to "love thy neighbour"?

All the time. Of course, loving them involves gently telling them of their error or danger they may be headed into. For example, you may not approve of what someone else is doing but certainly you would tell them if they were getting ready to step off a cliff, right?

Say, you'd be a great candidate for the four questions!

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43065

 

[handy]

Perhaps there is a fine line between opposition and hate. Maybe we step over that line when we start using insults, mockery, sarcasm, name-calling, patronizing questions, slanderous assumptions, stereotype and other methods that demean a person's intelligence and character to get our points across.

I have to agree with you here, JoJo. We do need to be mindful of the instruction to speak the truth in love. I think that there can be a full year's worth of in-depth study as to just what exactly that means, because a lot of Christians certainly think that it's OK to really rip and ream someone, thinking that as long as the message is "truth" then it's "love" to do so.

 

[TheCatholic]

Perhaps there is a fine line between opposition and hate. Maybe we step over that line when we start using insults, mockery, sarcasm, name-calling, patronizing questions, slanderous assumptions, stereotype and other methods that demean a person's intelligence and character to get our points across.

I have to agree with you here, JoJo. We do need to be mindful of the instruction to speak the truth in love. I think that there can be a full year's worth of in-depth study as to just what exactly that means, because a lot of Christians certainly think that it's OK to really rip and ream someone, thinking that as long as the message is "truth" then it's "love" to do so.

Hmmmm. Well, not to go back and forth, but if that is the case, then one could argue that homosexuals are the biggest haters of all, because some of the language & rhetoric I have heard come from them and from the left in genral is downright abominable.

Remember the horrible disgusting things that homosexual judge said about Carrie Prejean just because she gave an honest answer regarding her peronal opinion? You tell me: From which direction did the "hate" come from? It did not come from Carrie Prejean, it came from the homosexual judge spewing all that foulness on his video blogs.