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Why do you seek and desire to lose your salvation?

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AVBunyan

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It is one thing to defend a truth but to go to the great lengths that some of you go to defend the “Lose-it†belief tells me that many of you that you just want and desire to be able to lose your salvation.

Instead of going to the apostle God sent to teach the body of Christ truths to you today (Paul) where the saint’s position and security is clearly expounded you go all over the bible to places where the body of Christ is not even in existent!

Instead of believing clear passages such as, Phil. 1:6; Eph. 1:13; II Tim. 1:12; Col. 2:10; Gal. 2:16, 20; Eph. 2:8, 9; Rom. 8:38, 39 which were written to the body of Christ for this day and age you go to….

Ex. Matt 24 and others like it – enduring to the end – context future tribulation - no Calvary yet - body of Christ not formed or present yet. Gal. 5 – fallen from grace – these folks were seeking to be justified by the law; Revelation – tribulation book; Hebrews – Jews trying to enter into a future rest (land); Ezekiel; Gospels, again no Calvary yet - body of Christ not formed or present yet and many other passages.

You find the words faith, enduring, works, believe, obey in other places besides Paul and apply them doctrinally to you and justification today and when you find them in Paul the context is not justification or positional truth but practical truths.

Bottom line – instead of taking clear passages from Pauline truths meant for the body of Christ meant for the redeemed saint today you find obscure, suspect passages elsewhere that don’t apply to the blood-bought saint in the body of Christ. Oh, the passages are clearly there but they are clearly not doctrinally for the blood-bought saint today.

Now – let’s get mean here. Do you know why many of you folks would rather seek to climb Mt. Everest without oxygen instead of taking a leisurely walk around the block? I’ll give you my opinion.

1. You really want to think you can lose it so you can stand before God with all your filthy rags and good works and tell God, “Look Lord, I kept the faith, I endured, I obeyed – look at all I did that others didn’t do. Now, I know you helped me but my you couldn’t have done it without me and my faith and my obedience and my enduring!†And while you are standing there proud as a peacock and puffed up as a bull frog in heat expecting a big pat on the back the Lord for all your efforts God will kick you and you worthless baggage of works and faith out into the lake of fire.

2. I think many of you who seek to prove you can lose it never had it in the first place – you can’t see the truth of the gospel for it has been hid from you – II Cor. 4:3.

You had better quit trying to convince people a saint can lose it and start begging God to show you the true gospel that Christ died for your sins and get justification settled!

God bless 8-)
 
What's sad is that people who believe they can lose their salvation don't believe that Christ's death saved us. So since they don't believe that, then there is no hope for them because he can't be crucified again. :sad
 
Heidi said:
What's sad is that people who believe they can lose their salvation don't believe that Christ's death saved us. So since they don't believe that, then there is no hope for them because he can't be crucified again. :sad


Heide,

Salvation is not one time confession. It is life long loyalty to Him. He tells us that if you love Him keep His commandments. If you stop keeping His commandments you will lose it. This is so simple. OSAS is just gimmick to give people false assurance. :roll:
 
gingercat said:
Salvation is not one time confession. It is life long loyalty to Him. He tells us that if you love Him keep His commandments. If you stop keeping His commandments you will lose it. This is so simple. OSAS is just gimmick to give people false assurance. :roll:
One thing about you ginger is that you sure do prove conclusively your point with scripture and sound reasoning :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
AVBunyan said:
gingercat said:
Salvation is not one time confession. It is life long loyalty to Him. He tells us that if you love Him keep His commandments. If you stop keeping His commandments you will lose it. This is so simple. OSAS is just gimmick to give people false assurance. :roll:
One thing about you ginger is that you sure do prove conclusively your point with scripture and sound reasoning :roll: :roll: :roll:

AV,

What did I say that not biblical? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
Heidi said:
What's sad is that people who believe they can lose their salvation don't believe that Christ's death saved us. So since they don't believe that, then there is no hope for them because he can't be crucified again. :sad

I dont believe in any way the doctrine of eternal security. The Church doesnt teach it either. But the central thing that the Church does teach is the Jesus Christ died for our sins and that he rose again. Your statement is ridiculous, esp. because we make up 25 percent of the WORLD. Protestants cant compare with that. The MAJORITY of christianity says your wrong. Not just a couple catholics and gingercat. So, in conclusion, the only reason I dont despair always is because Christ died for my sins and he forgives time after time.
 
belovedwolfofgod said:
The MAJORITY of christianity says your wrong.
Take the majority of christainity and flush it them down the drain - the majority is worldly, ignorant, fleshly, and most likely lost - Why would I want to be conformed to this majority of this modern day Christianity?

The majority has never been right!!!
 
AVBunyan said:
belovedwolfofgod said:
The MAJORITY of christianity says your wrong.
Take the majority of christainity and flush it them down the drain - the majority is worldly, ignorant, fleshly, and most likely lost - Why would I want to be conformed to this majority of this modern day Christianity?

The majority has never been right!!!

AV, the majority believe OSAS. Why do you think you have so many churchgoers believing that they are saved without much of fruit of christianity? :sad
 
AV, the majority believe OSAS. Why do you think you have so many churchgoers believing that they are saved without much of fruit of christianity?

I would say that the majority doesnt care. The majority doesnt believe in OSAS. The majority of prots maybe, but not Christianity.
 
gingercat said:
AV, the majority believe OSAS.
Do the research on all major denominations and what they believe - the majority DO NOT believe OSAS - they are off on how the sinner is justified before God so therefore they are off on OSAS.

Ths issue is not OSAS but justification.
 
AVBunyan said:
gingercat said:
AV, the majority believe OSAS.
Do the research on all major denominations and what they believe - the majority DO NOT believe OSAS - they are off on how the sinner is justified before God so therefore they are off on OSAS.

Ths issue is not OSAS but justification.

They may not know the term "OSAS" but they sure act like it. What else do you think they believe they are saved without fruit of christianity?
 
What many people are doing is trying to mold God into their own image, and then, and only then will they say "now I will worship you." This is the worst form of idolatry.

There is a difference between someone who honestly gets it wrong and someone who is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. In this day and age, most people start out believing that we can lose salvation because that's what most churches teach. People who love the truth will seek for it beyond what is comfortable for them. They will seek diligently in His Word, always looking for more.

We all need to understand that we all have it in us to wilfully deceive ourselves, even convincing ourselves that we are not. The hardest obstacle to overcome is to recognize that in ourselves, and second, is to constantly be aware of this fact and fight with everything we have to overcome that and search for the truth as honestly as possible.

I started out believing that a person could lose their salvation because that's what I was told in the beginning, and the little I knew about scripture seemed to back it up. But as I grew in my understanding, God's Word proved otherwise, and continues till this day to build a stronger and stronger foundation under the fact that Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith, and that it is all of His Grace, therefor all of Him. Blessed be the name of our Lord.
 
I have always believed and will continue to believe that once someone is saved that cannot lose their salvation. I won't put any scriptures down, since so many others have already did very well already. I am not sure why people want for people to lose their salvation once they have it, I for one can't fathom it.
 
Dave and Christine,

OSAS thology is very dangerous theology because it leads people astray by giving them false assurance. I know hundreds of people that say they are saved and have no proof of their faith. Why do you keep on insisting this theology that gives new and young Christians false assurance?

You are saying that many people believe they lose their salvation? I believe it is the opposite. Even the Catholics say they dont believe in OSAS but their lives are not showing much fruit of Christianity. I believe they are following OSAS thology too.

We have reposibility to lead our fellow believers to be obedient to the Lord. If the message we preach is not achiving that then it is not of God but the devil's.
 
Dave... said:
Did I kill this thread? Sorry. :sad

******

John here:
As Adam was 'Once Saved' so must his 'saved' seed be. This is where but few arrive. Recreation IN Christ. 2 Cor. 3:3 brings us right back into the perfection's Covering of the Righteousness of Christ! This is first required.The John 3:3 Born AGAIN Truth. OK.

In all teaching there are but few who are at this stage of JUSTIFICATION of Rom. 8:1. The others have not gotten this far as yet. Regardless of if it being the ones with no desire, or the ones that just will not 'give up' their stubborn will yet.

But lets just consider how these ones that are supposed to now be 'led' of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:14) arrived this far, and why they now as Adam & Eve required CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT or MATURITY.

First: They were created PERFECT! And then needed Total surrender after their fall for being re/created. (Covenant REQUIRED Hebrews 13:20) But why did they FALL? Why were they tested? Why was a tree of FORBIDDEN fruit placed right there in the 'midst' of the Garden of Eden? They were OSAS up to this point? as perfect as any could be! But always saved goes onward, into maturity huh! Nahum 1:9! (or as Cain!)

Now, we see that these 'few' ones above are right back to the PERFECTION of Adam! Decisions to make, testing to be passed! (Both have now a death decree of dying bodies documented) So we are talking of the spiritual Life.

In today's setting for the saved, we see the REQUIRED commandment of Christ in Matt. 28:18-20. Verse 20 lets one 'see' of perhaps the biggest FATAL problem of the professed minister of Christ. That of NOT teaching ... "Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU.." (why do you suppose that is?)

NOW: Lets say that we are sincere! And we do not know that the minister that taught [part truth] was doing so? But we HAVE ACCEPTED CHRIST as completely as we have KNOWLEDGE. [WE ARE BORN AGAIN!] But, are we MATURE?? No, absolutely NOT!
And we are in as serious 'danger' of becoming as Cain was, with his Fruit sacrifice instead of Christ's commanded Seventh-day Sabbath one, as seen in comparison of Gen. 4:6-7's free choice!

We are only saved as was Adam. Day by day! We have the ERNEST of the Holy Ghost only. There is to be a day of CLOSING to come! (see Acts 3:19) We too need our CHARACTER DEVELOPED in testing! But how does Christ do this?

Can we fall? Did Cain? Read Gen. 4:6-7 again & again!

OK: Now back to us that are Born Again. What happens? Remember that both Adam & Eve could have told Christ that they too were Once Saved Always Saved, and that we just KNOW that, that IS THE TRUTH! But was it? And were they??? And are we?? Hardly!!

Notice ONLY the positives of these Holy Spirit Inspired Words in Heb. 6:1-5. And 'in' the [POSITIVES ONLY].

"... were ONCE ENLIGHTENED" and "HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT" (CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS) and "WERE [MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST]" (Born AGAIN for sure!) and [HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWER OF THE WORLD TO COME].." (again the Everlasting Gospel of Christ and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS! Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9) Both Adam & Eve were Clothed with the Righteous Garments of the Master!

NOW: Ask yourself HONESTLY as one 'LED BY THE HOLY GHOST', what did a PERFECTLY CREATED ADAM need more than these GIVEN POSITIVE TRAITS above??? Again think of the Matt. 28:20 verse? There [are] things NOT being taught to these ones who have accepted Christ, they are not taught ALL THINGS pertaining to Christ' COMMANDED WORD! (unless you do not believe His Words? and if that were the case, we would not be Born Again in the first place! see Acts 5:32)

This is what the 'persons' problem is, in ALL of fallen creation. But 'Few' get a reborn life. And among these we see many 'folds' and their 'folds' teaching of part Truth with the rest being untruth. And instead of living John 10:16 & Rev. 18:4, we see for the most part..

I have tasted the good Word of God! I feel great! I know that I am OSAS! I have tasted of the POWERS of the world to come! (we just 'feel' the POWER, huh?) And [I WAS MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT]!
And yet, there is the Eternal Documented Everlasting Gospel verse in Hebrews 6:6 to follow the verses 1-5!!
So? What more do I need!! This IS the QUESTION! Was this ENOUGH? or does God REQUIRE a person to have a CHARACTER MATURED in Christ'? God say's Yes & the evil one say's no! See
2 Cor. 3:3's EPISTLE! AND SAFE THROUGHOUT ETERNITY TO SAVE??Read Nahum 1:9


That IS what it is ALL about, & the Master leaves the D-E-C-I-S-I-O-N up to you to make! (as did He Cain!) And that includes the one that has not yet been Born Again in the first place, or the one that has, but still refuses to be 'led' into more MATURITY to be safe to save throughout ALL OF ETERNITY! See Hosea 4:6.

The simple bottom line Truth is.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" :fadein: And if not? That is your :sad 'free' decision to make.
 
Why do you seek and desire to lose your salvation?



AV, if you are seeking salvation you won't lose it. Why do you twist around non-OSASers' logic?

There are so many tricks and gimmicks and theology to seduce people into their denomination. OSAS theology is nothing but being used to lure people into their churches.
 
gingercat said:
OSAS theology is nothing but being used to lure people into their churches.
You are way off Ginger - you can't prove that - that was a poor statement.

Why not deal with what I've posted earlier?

My sincere desire is not to win a debate or argument but for people to see:

1. That salvation comes by way of what Christ did at Calvary alone.
2. This salvation is a free gift.
3. By obtaining this great salvation by grace alone one can have assurance and comfort in Christ.
4. Then they can let Christ live for them - Rom. 5 and Gal. 2:20

God bless
 
90% of the greatest and most fruitful evangelists, missionaries, writers and preachers of the past believed justification by faith alone which carries with it OSAS. This can not be denied.

Look at your modern "evangelists, preachers, writers" - Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, Oral Roberts, Joel Osteen, Ken Hagin, faith healers, etc. - all these guys believe you can lose it and these men are not holy men whatsoever and are an abomination.

I believe the above men are dead in trepasses and sins.

I'll follow those who believe justification and OSAS - you are in agreement with the latter. :o

God bless 8-)
 
John the Baptist said:
The simple bottom line Truth is.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" :fadein: And if not? That is your :sad 'free' decision to make.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
 
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