Why do you seek and desire to lose your salvation?

[gingercat]

Why are people so ready to tell others that they are not of God's Kingdom? Why do you always try to prove that no one is saved but you and those who believe the same way you do? You may want to try to pry yourself from the internet and read your Bible again.
God loves you, God loves me. God Loves sinners. In fact, Jesus ate with "sinners" and the Pharisees got on Him about it.

There are so many enemies out there, non-Christians who want all to be non-Christians, Athiests who try push their atheism on us all. I don't think The Lord Our Father wants us to fight with each other!!
Accept your differences!! Look instead on what you have in common, which is faith in Our Lord Jesus!!!!!

Christine, it is my conviction that OSAS theology is giving new and young believers false assurance. It is not of God. You are leading them astray. If they don't repent of their unfruitful lives they will not see Jesus. It is a grave sin. Do you know what I am saying?

 

[John the Baptist]

John, you mixed up mine with AV's.

*****
Sorry about that, but the point came across, huh : :wink:

 

[ChristineES]

Why are people so ready to tell others that they are not of God's Kingdom? Why do you always try to prove that no one is saved but you and those who believe the same way you do? You may want to try to pry yourself from the internet and read your Bible again.
God loves you, God loves me. God Loves sinners. In fact, Jesus ate with "sinners" and the Pharisees got on Him about it.

There are so many enemies out there, non-Christians who want all to be non-Christians, Athiests who try push their atheism on us all. I don't think The Lord Our Father wants us to fight with each other!!
Accept your differences!! Look instead on what you have in common, which is faith in Our Lord Jesus!!!!!

Christine, it is my conviction that OSAS theology is giving new and young believers false assurance. It is not of God. You are leading them astray. If they don't repent of their unfruitful lives they will not see Jesus. It is a grave sin. Do you know what I am saying?

I know what you are saying, but I don't agree with it. Maybe someday I will be reading my bible and I will find out that you were right, but for right now, I have read the Word, more than once,and OSAS is what I believe. Jesus did say and I repeat "none shall be snatched from my hand".
I don't think I am saying that young Christians can do whatever they want and still be saved. What I am saying is that if a young person is a true Christian, he or she will not want to those things. But if a person slips, I don't think they are condemned and lose their salvation.

And to who said "that is cute, but it ain't gonna happen" is absolutely correct!!!!

 

[gingercat]

But if a person slips, I don't think they are condemned and lose their salvation. end of quote


If that person never repent they wont be with Him. Thats why you have to make sure that he has to repent! You have to tell him. You dont just say "oh well, you are saved anyway. you are ok." If you love that person you have to tell the whole truth. We have responsibility to each other. You don't sound like you really care about anyone else's walk with the Lord, Christine.

 

[ChristineES]

On the contrary, I care about all people's walk with the Lord. I pray for those who are not saved daily and more than once a day!

I also never said that a person can say " oh well, I am saved anyway either." What I was saying was that if a person accepts Christ is that they will want to repent from their sins, if they slip they will be sorry for it and say so. Just as when I disobeyed my parents as a child, I would always repent of that disobedience. It is the same with God. God is our Parent! Yes, he will be displeased if you don't do his will, but that doesn't mean He will not throw us out of His Family that we are Born-Again into, just as my parents didn't disown me when I disobeyed them.

 

[gingercat]

Christine,

You have to read more than twice to make sure your convictions. twice is not enough to argue with someone who is fighting so hard to keep other believers from straying, Christine.

Besides you dont seem like you are reading your opposers comments.

 

[ChristineES]

I have read the New Testament more than a dozen times since I first became a Christian 23 years ago. If I don't like to read my opposers, then you don't either. You seem bent on everyone believing what you want. Sorry, but that isn't going to happen.
I am done with this thread. I have hard discussing something with someone who can never be wrong or at least see another point of view. : : It seems almost as if you are not reading my posts at all, but instead are trying to get to see things your way (that is okay, but if you do have to stop at some point)
I usually don't get angry, in fact I have been told that I am too nice by a lot of people (and it is not a compliment by them either) But I am angry now.
The Lord loves you, Gingercat, in fact I love you as my sibling in Christ. I hope you can accept that I and others have a different view than yours as I have accepted your view could be true.
God Bless You, and Keep You.

 

[ChristineES]

Oh, and by the way, Gingercat, you were right about one thing, I was only reading your posts as I was only talking to you towards the end. But earlier I read all the posts. It just seemed that later everyone was just repeating themselves, so I only skimmed through them.

Smile, Jesus loves you :D

 

[gingercat]

Christine,

I am volunteer evangelist and am very serious about leading people to the Lord. I also know that many people are not serious about following Jesus' teachings. I have been evangelizing about 7 years and have talked many many people. It is so sad that Jesus teachings are not respected. Many people believe they are saved without much of fruit of Christianity. That's why I get angry that people promote that good deed don't count or similar comments. If you love your fellow believers you should encourage them to be obedient to the Lord instead of giving them false assurance that we are saved no matter what we do or don't do. Let's be realistic. Jesus did not die to give us easy salvation. What kind of God do we serve then if OSAS theology is correct?

sincerely

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think you need to worry about that. I am not a preacher or an evangelist. I am so shy I can't even talk out loud to people I don't know. I am very innocent of today's world. I am 40 years old, and I don't know many young folks. I am ignorant of today's world because I keep out of it. I don't want to be a part of it.
I want young people led to Christ, but as The Lord did not give me that talent (to preach, that is) all I can do is set an example to them, which I do try to do. I am no longer angry, and I do understand your challenge of today's youth who seem to think they can do whatever they want. It is , as the saying goes, A Sign of the Times.

Good luck with your work.
I wish you all the best,
Christine

 

[Heidi]

Christine,

I am volunteer evangelist and am very serious about leading people to the Lord. I also know that many people are not serious about following Jesus' teachings. I have been evangelizing about 7 years and have talked many many people. It is so sad that Jesus teachings are not respected. Many people believe they are saved without much of fruit of Christianity. That's why I get angry that people promote that good deed don't count or similar comments. If you love your fellow believers you should encourage them to be obedient to the Lord instead of giving them false assurance that we are saved no matter what we do or don't do. Let's be realistic. Jesus did not die to give us easy salvation. What kind of God do we serve then if OSAS theology is correct?

sincerely

So you don't believe that Christ's death on the cross saves you. Is that correct? :o If so, then what did he die for? Why don't you just do good works like the Jews do? :-?

 

[gingercat]

Heidi, many people already argued about it. You just don't accept it. This is my conviction that OSAS theology is making our God hypocritical. He is not a hypocrite! You are giving yourself easy way out. He says He help you to be perfect and you don't believe Him. Why do you think He says He help us, because He gave us a lot of responsibilities. Those responsibilities are good deeds and His commandments. Don't forget that He also says if you love me keep my commandments. It is amazing that you skip all those responsibilities and His warnings. They are not just a few.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi, many people already argued about it. You just don't accept it. This is my conviction that OSAS theology is making our God hypocritical. He is not a hypocrite! You are giving yourself easy way out. He says He help you to be perfect and you don't believe Him. Why do you think He says He help us, because He gave us a lot of responsibilities. Those responsibilities are good deeds and His commandments. Don't forget that He also says if you love me keep my commandments. It is amazing that you skip all those responsibilities and His warnings. They are not just a few.

So you don't think the Holy Spirit gives us the power to do good works? :o What do you think the fruits of the Spirit are? :o Where do you think we get the Holy Spirit? From the toothfairy? What do you think gives us faith? Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us. Have you even read the bible? :o

It's the Holy Spirit that enables us to do good works, not our wonderful good nature and superior intelligence. "He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion." And that is fact...unless of course you don't beleieve the bible. Once the Holy Spirit enters us as Paul said; "You, however, are not controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you." What do you think that means? That means that once the Holy Spirit is in us, the devil is not stronger than the Holy Spirit and we can't help but do good works!

But those who haven't received the Holy Spirit, but try to believe Jesus on their own effort do indeed have to fear losing their salvation! So I can see why you are worried because you have a lot to worry about. But those of us who have received the Holy Spirit believe Jesus when he said; "No one can snatch them our of my hand." You obviously don't have the faith to believe him. So yes, my friend, your salvation is in grave doubt. And doubt is from the devil, but faith is from God.

 

[gingercat]

So you don't think the Holy Spirit gives us the power to do good works?

This is too discussed many many times. Why are you repeating the same thing over and over? Are you trying to wear me out? You can ask some other of your opponents. I am not so young any more to waste on repititions.

Good day Hidey

 

[Heidi]

So you don't think the Holy Spirit gives us the power to do good works?

This is too discussed many many times. Why are you repeating the same thing over and over? Are you trying to wear me out? You can ask some other of your opponents. I am not so young any more to waste on repititions.

Good day Hidey

Because you haven't answered it. Again, do you think the Holy Spirit gives us power to do good works, yes or no.

 

[gingercat]

Because you haven't answered it. Again, do you think the Holy Spirit gives us power to do good works, yes or no.

Yes, I have, may be not to you but to someone else. You just like to argue. You have done that to me many times. I have to put you on ignor list again.

good day heidi

 

[Dave...]

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Drew]

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I have always believed that texts such as these do not have sufficient precision or resolution, in and of themselves, to rule out the possibility that a possible act of "free will" acceptance is involved in the salvation process. In defence of this possibility, I will point out that the text identifies faith as a "gift", and the very way we use the concept of a "gift" necessarily entails an act of free-will acceptance. If faith is truly a gift as this concept is commonly used, the recipient has to have the in principle capability to freely reject the offer.

Even if this argument is not accepted, there is still the very real problem that one can construct a perfectly coherent model of the salvation process that is true to this text and also to the position that man has to freely accept the "faith" that definitely does originate in God (and not in us). The issues here are a little subtle, but such is the nature of this problem.

The argument sort of goes like this: I can lack a certain faculty, say the capability to understand quantum mechanics - I can be completely incapable of understanding the concepts, given my mental constitution. But even in such a state, I can indeed recognize the existence of this lack of capability - I do not need to know any quantum theory to come to a recognition of my ignorance. I could then freely ask for help, say from a physics professor, who would then provide me with the knowledge and training that might enable me to eventually understand the theory.

In short, there is an important conceptual distinction between the content of faith - which is indeed given to us by God - and the capability to recognize a need for this faith and ask freely for such faith to be given to me. The Ephesians text simply does not clearly state that we do not have this "capability" to recognize our need for faith and act freely on it. The text does, of course, rule out the possibility that we can construct such a faith of our doing.

 

[soma]

gingercat you are right on.

Many preach about God's grace then they just sin, thinking they are saved by grace alone. These external Christians often just sit and do nothing. They feel they are better off doing nothing, than failing and being condemned by the people around them. Their attention is not on God, but on their own actions. I feel in your case salvation is accepted as a gift from God so you are free to put your attention on Him. He can then help you look for the needs of others and proceed to meet those needs, or in other words - to do "good works." We are Christ's servants. He is remaking us, and everything good we do as His creation is to His credit and not to our's. He is changing us from selfish creatures that only look out for ourselves into ones who care more about others than ourselves. By saving us by His grace, Jesus frees us from ourselves. Look at the tree and the fruit. People who talk without good works are repeating lines not living the word. They often condemn others for their work.

1 JOHN 4:18, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love."

 

[Heidi]

Because you haven't answered it. Again, do you think the Holy Spirit gives us power to do good works, yes or no.

Yes, I have, may be not to you but to someone else. You just like to argue. You have done that to me many times. I have to put you on ignor list again.

good day heidi

Then since you agree that the Holy Spirit gives us the power to do good works, then how can one ever lose his salvation? Unless of course, he thinks the devil is stronger. If so, then he is wrong and those who receive the Holy Spirit can never lose their salvation. Subject closed...unless of course, you simply like to argue. ;-)