Why I cringe when people say it's all about choice.

[childeye]

Re: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak..

Let's try it like this..

Which is better..

To sin, or not to sin..?

Now, you claim that people are forced to sin... and you claim that you do not sin..

See how obvious it is that you're better...

No it's not obvious at all. But only one who believes in free will would think that way. While it's better to not sin, if one takes that as their own accomplshment via free will so as to glory over others, then it is not better that he does not sin.

And this is shown over and over in scripture, that God chooses the lowly and despised over the wise and prudent so as to destroy such vanity. The prostitute whose sins are many, enters in ahead of the Pharisees whose sins are few, because those forgiven much Love much and those forgiven little love little. And those who slandered Paul were believers in free will, for they were slandering Paul, saying that he was preaching that we should do evil so that good would come from it. Indeed this thread is precisely about such a vanity as free will.

But you do not sin... so how does that work.. don't you have flesh like the rest of us ?

Yes of course I have flesh, but over the years it has died in Christ as I walked more and more in the Faith, both on the Left and on the Right. There are two ways that I see this faith in God's Spirit bearing fruit, one is we forgive others whatever they do to us, return good for evil, turn the other cheek, Love our enemies, go the extra mile, don't judge except to be merciful and understanding, etc... The other is we give charity, care for the elderly, the orphan, visit prisoners, tend to the sick, etc... But all of these things are accomplished through the Spirit of Christ which gives glory to God for such a Love. If we do it to promote ourselves before God and men via free wills, we will fall into sin because of such vanity.

That is why good brothers like you that understand this, might cringe when I say I don't sin. Because the battle is our pride which we are walking away from in Christ, and they are concerned I may have set myself up for a fall if perhaps I slip and take some glory unto myself. But since all glory is God's, I will temper a fall that comes from the left with that which would come from the right. Which is, if I say I sin just to avoid falling into pride and being exposed a liar in front of God and men, this also is pride. The bible calls this false humility. So I say or rather the Spirit of Truth says, I don't care, let me fall either on the left or the right unto God's glory. For if there is any pride hidden in me I want to see it, and be corrected.

Now you say you sin and are in Christ, I don't actually believe you on the left but I do on the right. You don't answer my question and find excuses for yourself to avoid it. But I am your servant so I will demure from the question. I already know your answer anyway.

I believe it 100%... I simply believe the rest of scripture as well... scriptures like Romans 7 which says that sin dwelleth in me.. or Hebrews which speaks of the sin which so easily besets us... and then the scriptures which teach us that the flesh always wars with the Spirit of Christ in us etc..

Are those scriptures applicable to you ?

Indeed it is applicable as I have just described above. For there is a journey between, 1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. And also, 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So once again, your flesh never wars with the Spirit of Christ in you ? You also say that you don't blame others for their sin.. so who do you blame ?

I said I don't sin not I am incapable. I blame no one lest I add to the problem...

If I am seeking to establish the cause of something, I might say the wind is responsible for knocking down my fence. My wife might say, "you should have strengthened that fence years ago and your procrastination is responsible". But if in fact the wind was responsible and there is no way to prove to my wife otherwise, I may stand accused unjustly and yet perhaps I am justly accused since no one actually knows. Now in this place of the unknown is the opportunity that the devil uses to play one person's doubts against anothers in an atmosphere of pride and fear. So the devil would build upon this. Hence my wife afterward, feeling she's the responsible one, started pestering me about fixing everything, out of fear of what might go wrong next due to my perceived laziness. This would demean me in her eyes, and her in mine. I then sought to get away from the house to escape her badgering and find some peace. She then interpreted this as trying to get out of work which only served to enforce her sour image of me, which in turn made me only want to be away from her all the more, etc... etc... fights, feelings hurt, etc...etc... misery, drinking, found some other girl treated me like a million bucks, jealousy, hatred, divorce, etc...All because the wind blew my fence down.

Ok, you can't be wrong about God's character... and yet you claim that others are forced to sin while you're not.. so how does that happen.. did you get a special pass or something..?

I never said I was not forced to sin. I already have said as flesh I am only cappable of sin due to the nature of the carnal mind and I have done my fair share of sin.

Yes, but we all got a special pass in that Christ paid the price for our sin so that sins may be forgiven, and in that he said the sick need a dcotor and forgive them for they know not what they do. For he partook of flesh and blood so that he may put away sin once and for all.

I don't want anything.. this is a discussion where people typically share their views on matters. It would help if you'd explain how you came to the place of not sinning while others are forced to sin.

So you like to correct people.. wouldn't it be better to show them how you came to not sin while they're forced to sin..? Isn't that the bottom line here ?

I came to not sin by believing in the Christ, trusting in his words regarding all he says as the Truth from heaven. Knowing sin is a slavery of the will as Christ has said is countermanded by saying we have free wills. I have begun this thread so as to try and articulate exactly that.

 

[childeye]

And some think that 'i' am hard to understand.

Yes Elijah I have often not understood what you say, and I take you at your word that you do not understand me. So let's bridge the gap as much as possible. I am saying that the Eternal Spirit of God is Love and is the ultimate power. We all are moved by this power to do what is moraly good. Do you agree with that?

 

[Elijah674]

Yes Elijah I have often not understood what you say, and I take you at your word that you do not understand me. So let's bridge the gap as much as possible. I am saying that the Eternal Spirit of God is Love and is the ultimate power. We all are moved by this power to do what is moraly good. Do you agree with that?

You say: We [all] are moved by this power to do what is moraly good. Do you agree with that?

No, we still do not see eye to eye on this. There is only a 'remnant' that are seen here at this ending point. + we do not know who any one of these are. We cannot read hearts or motives, and the wheat + tares grow together. And I am not talking about any outright open sinning denomination of Rev. 17:1-5

--Elijah

 

[childeye]

You say: We [all] are moved by this power to do what is moraly good. Do you agree with that?

No, we still do not see eye to eye on this. There is only a 'remnant' that are seen here at this ending point. + we do not know who any one of these are. We cannot read hearts or motives, and the wheat + tares grow together. And I am not talking about any outright open sinning denomination of Rev. 17:1-5

--Elijah

So I still think you misunderstand my question. Let me rephrase. Do we agree that without the power of Godly Love in a man he can do nothing morally pleasing to God?

I don't see how not knowing who any of these tares are, has anything to do with this question.