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Why I Left Scofieldism.

S

Scotth1960

Member
Friends! Recommended website!


Why I Left Scofieldism

http:// Why I left Scofieldism


No future return of Jews to Palestine predicted in the Bible; the 1948 founding of "Israel" not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just a secular event.
No Christian Zionism. No Zionism needed. Only return of Jews to Jesus Christ. Jews will be blessed by God, with or without a homeland, and will be saved only in Christ. God blesses even those who are not yet saved, by Christ's blood. God makes His sun to shine on all, the just and unjust alike.


In Erie PA Scott H.


 
I agree with in part. Scofield went too far but lets not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Modern Israel is of God but not for the reasons dispensationalists teach.

Before we can understand the significance of modern Israel some honesty is needed from both sides of the debate concerning her homeland return. Firstly, it is a miracle. Jews and Christians of all points of view need to acknowledge this, if for no other reason than it happened! Jerusalem was indeed trampled underfoot for nearly two millennia then in our modern era, against impossible odds, came out from under gentile control. Is this not fulfillment of Jesus’ word? (Luke 21: 20-24) Has there ever been a nation who, after nineteen hundred years of non-existence, reappeared in their country of origin as an independent, sovereign state?

On the other hand, God was under no obligation to do it! Yes, we need to acknowledge that God has done it, but there is no reason to accept the error of dispensationalism which claims God is duty bound to his word to restore the geographic boundaries promised to Abraham. (Genesis 15:18-21) The promise given concerning the land was already fulfilled so God is under no obligation to fulfill it again. (1 Kings 4:20-21) Besides, this matter of national boundary is secondary to the main purpose of his covenant with Abraham, the object of which was to include the Gentiles, so this is the priority that should be stressed, not incidentals about how big Israel’s territory might eventually get.

Both sides need to moderate their positions and ask instead, if God has done it yet was under no obligation to do it, why did he do it at all? The answer is grace, and the biblical basis for modern Israel is not Genesis 15 but is found in Acts 17:26-27:
“From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him.â€
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This scripture may not impress unbelievers but Christians who wish to refute Zionism should take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to Israel in end-time prophecy. The fact is it is God – not the United Nations, not the Balfour declaration, not dispensationalists, not Zionists themselves – it is God who has established Israel in her homeland in these modern days just as he does with all nations according to his will!

Cyberseeker
 
Cyberseeker said:
I agree with in part. Scofield went too far but lets not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Modern Israel is of God but not for the reasons dispensationalists teach.

Before we can understand the significance of modern Israel some honesty is needed from both sides of the debate concerning her homeland return. Firstly, it is a miracle. Jews and Christians of all points of view need to acknowledge this, if for no other reason than it happened! Jerusalem was indeed trampled underfoot for nearly two millennia then in our modern era, against impossible odds, came out from under gentile control. Is this not fulfillment of Jesus’ word? (Luke 21: 20-24) Has there ever been a nation who, after nineteen hundred years of non-existence, reappeared in their country of origin as an independent, sovereign state?

On the other hand, God was under no obligation to do it! Yes, we need to acknowledge that God has done it, but there is no reason to accept the error of dispensationalism which claims God is duty bound to his word to restore the geographic boundaries promised to Abraham. (Genesis 15:18-21) The promise given concerning the land was already fulfilled so God is under no obligation to fulfill it again. (1 Kings 4:20-21) Besides, this matter of national boundary is secondary to the main purpose of his covenant with Abraham, the object of which was to include the Gentiles, so this is the priority that should be stressed, not incidentals about how big Israel’s territory might eventually get.

Both sides need to moderate their positions and ask instead, if God has done it yet was under no obligation to do it, why did he do it at all? The answer is grace, and the biblical basis for modern Israel is not Genesis 15 but is found in Acts 17:26-27:

This scripture may not impress unbelievers but Christians who wish to refute Zionism should take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to Israel in end-time prophecy. The fact is it is God – not the United Nations, not the Balfour declaration, not dispensationalists, not Zionists themselves – it is God who has established Israel in her homeland in these modern days just as he does with all nations according to his will!

Cyberseeker
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Dear Cyberseeker, If God did establish modern Israel in her own borders for a purpose, then, for what purpose? To bring her back to Jesus Christ? If not, it is against God's purposes. Israel, as all Gentile nations, need to come to Christ in Christ's Church. Outside of His Church, God doesn't have a plan that has been revealed to all. His plan is to make all people One Body, the Church. The Church is in Christ, and Christ is in the Church. True, Christ said there would be wheat and there would be weeds. But Christ permits and allow both to grow up until the great Harvest of souls at His Second Coming. Even in the Church, there is an admixture of light, and darker elements. That doesn't mean Christians should neglect the Church. It just mean people remain human, and subject to sinning, whether they join the Church, or they do not. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
PS Modern Israel in its Zionism persecutes Christians and does not want to hear the saving Gospel of our LORD GOD and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST. How can, therefore, such Zionism be in the will of God? Outside of the Gospel there is no salvation. Zionism cannot save Israel. Only Jesus Christ can.
True, Jews have a covenant to live in their own land; but they cannot remain secure in their unbelief; those are truly Abraham's seed who have faith in Christ. The same message and offer of salvation is in Christ Jesus only and is offered to Israel and all the Gentile Nations. In Christ and in Israel shall all the earth and nations be blessed.

 
Scotth1960 said:
Friends! Recommended website!


Why I Left Scofieldism

http:// Why I left Scofieldism


No future return of Jews to Palestine predicted in the Bible; the 1948 founding of "Israel" not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just a secular event.
No Christian Zionism. No Zionism needed. Only return of Jews to Jesus Christ. Jews will be blessed by God, with or without a homeland, and will be saved only in Christ. God blesses even those who are not yet saved, by Christ's blood. God makes His sun to shine on all, the just and unjust alike.


In Erie PA Scott H.
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I will ad just one verse to this:

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
 
God's Word says ......Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Scofield says this...

.......3a least saying I will open my mouth 1 The gathering of the tares into bundles for burning does not imply immediate judgment At the end of this age v 40 the tares are set apart for burning but first ths wheat is gathered into the barn John ziv 3 1 Thes iv 14 17 The parable of the Mustard Seed prefigures the rapid but unsubstantial growth of the mystery form of the kingdom from an insignificant beginning Acts i 15 ii 41.....
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Daddy always had Scofield Bibles every couple years a new one. They were visiting us we were talking scripture Mom said Beck, Scofiel says 'tares' and the Scripture says first the 'wheat' i was in disbelief.. Well out came the Bibles ....That is when i found out ...just because words are printed along side scripture does not mean they are true or correct....Dad came in from where ever he was and into it again....God had been blessing Dad and showing him His Word God's Word apart from Scofeild. Praise God for His liberity
 
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We know according to the scriptures that all twelve tribes of Israel will exist when the Lord comes again and then sits upon the throne of His glory. Matthew 19 makes it perfectly clear that in the regeneration that His Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 25 makes it clear that the Lord will sit upon the throne of His glory when He comes in His glory..

Romans warns Christians to not be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel lest we become wise in our own conceits.. that they (the nation of Israel) is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.. but sadly enough.. many do ignore this.

Israel is the only nation on earth which is not considered Gentile.. and that's what Gentile means.. not Israel. And we know that all Israel shall be saved when the deliverer comes from Zion and turns godliness from JACOB.. remember Jacob, the one who wrestled with God all night, and then in the morning of that Day the sun rose upon him.. Paul tells us that the night is far spent and that the Day is at hand.. and that's the day of the LORD.. the Day of Jesus Christ.

One of the largest stunmblingblocks in Christendom today is confusing the Israel of God with the church of God.. two entirely different entities.. one is earthly and has earthly ordinances, and the other is heavenly.. for our citizenship is in heaven..
 
the word for gentile in hebrew is goyum,meaning nations and those that arent of the seed of abraham.


but if you really want to techinical.

not all of the tribes were purely abrahamic stock

ie the half tribes of manasseh and ephraim

the seed of moses(ethopian blood) and also the lineage of david has two gentiles in them. rachab, and ruth.
 
jasoncran said:
the word for gentile in hebrew is goyum,meaning nations and those that arent of the seed of abraham.


but if you really want to techinical.

not all of the tribes were purely abrahamic stock

ie the half tribes of manasseh and ephraim

the seed of moses(ethopian blood) and also the lineage of david has two gentiles in them. rachab, and ruth.
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What's your take on the mystery concerning Israel in Romans 11:25-29 ? What do you think that GENTILE means in that context ?
 
Eventide said:
What's your take on the mystery concerning Israel in Romans 11:25-29 ? What do you think that GENTILE means in that context ?
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surely by now, you know that i believe in the return of isreal to her land

the verses at a glance

isiah 65
ezekiel 38.

theres a lot more

add zechariah 14

and jesus spoke this to jerusalem

baruchaba beshem adonai. they shall not see him till they say that!
 
Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Deu 1:7 Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all the places nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.

Deu 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.


Jos 1:3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.
Jos 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.
 
Here's the biblical boundaries to the land of Israel as specified in the bible:

Israelmap2.jpg
 
jasoncran said:
and its interesting that the hebrews never took all that land.

its stated why in judges.
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Jason, i have been trying to find a polite way to say "OK you say the above and the scriptures says this now make 'em match but i am not good with words so please know i am not being rude. Show me the conection


Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 
Scotth1960 said:
No future return of Jews to Palestine predicted in the Bible; the 1948 founding of "Israel" not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just a secular event.
Click to expand...
Agree.

The fundamental point here, I believe, is this:

The promise of the land of Palestine to the nation of Israel was really just a "fore-shadowing" of the promise of all of creation to the church.
 
jasoncran said:
surely by now, you know that i believe in the return of isreal to her land

the verses at a glance

isiah 65
ezekiel 38.

theres a lot more

add zechariah 14

and jesus spoke this to jerusalem

baruchaba beshem adonai. they shall not see him till they say that!
Click to expand...

How would I know that.. did I miss a post or something ?
 
Sadly enough.. the self proclaimed one true church clubs are amillennial and so multitudes have been brainwashed into believing that the church of God is Israel..
 
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