Why I Left Scofieldism.

[jasoncran]

How would I know that.. did I miss a post or something ?

i have stated it numerous time on this board.

i merely engage and challenge those that proclaim a date and why isreal is important what the real isreal is and that isnt what we have today.

isreal is a shell of what it is supposed to be.not all of that above prophecies are fulfilled.
epheriam hasnt returned

 

[tim-from-pa]

epheriam hasnt returned

Of course not. They are in the isles yet (Isaiah 49).

The Jewish Rabbi whose picture I posted showing the land of Israel claims scripture says Judah would come back to the land first, so technically, all that land is not to the Jews, but other tribes as well. First, the Jews conquered the land, then Jerusalem, next is the temple as they feverishly make the temple artifacts now and some are made already.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Sadly enough.. the self proclaimed one true church clubs are amillennial and so multitudes have been brainwashed into believing that the church of God is Israel..

You noticed that, too? Nicely said --- it would take me several paragraphs to say the same thing. Yes, I noticed a proliferation of this teaching in recent years. The "replacement theology" is on this wise: the Jews rejected Christ, and anyone who believes now is the recipient of the covenant. Except for one thing---- there is not one covenant, but many, and not all of them have to do with spiritual blessings only as persistent "spiritualizers" try to make it into that in one, nice wrapped up covenant. But when we consider the Abrahamic Covenant, for example, much of that are earthly blessings and such recipients are not necessarily spiritually saved. (The same is with the Davidic Covenant) I don't know why that's such a hard thing to grasp. And in addition, those promises went to a specific lineage (genealogy) of people. I fail to see why God in His Word specifically name a recipient only to have that "spritualized" to mean the church. I mean, look at all the genealogies in the bible, Genesis, Ruth Chronicles, Ezra, the gospels, etc. I fail to understand why God would name them all just to have it go to nameless, Gentile, waifs of people.

 

[Elijah674]

Jason, i have been trying to find a polite way to say "OK you say the above and the scriptures says this now make 'em match but i am not good with words so please know i am not being rude. Show me the conection


Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Hi, NO WAY that 'i' am Jason, ;) but the Bible is CONDITIONAL from start to finish.
OK: The Promised 'LAND' cannot sin! And the promised LAND will be given to the ones who are LED & will meet the Mature Conditions of the Godhead PROMISE.

When the New Jerusalem comes back to earth she will be 'set down in her Promised land!' (Joel 3:13-17)

--Elijah

 

[reba]

Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.




Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Eventide]

You noticed that, too? Nicely said --- it would take me several paragraphs to say the same thing. Yes, I noticed a proliferation of this teaching in recent years. The "replacement theology" is on this wise: the Jews rejected Christ, and anyone who believes now is the recipient of the covenant. Except for one thing---- there is not one covenant, but many, and not all of them have to do with spiritual blessings only as persistent "spiritualizers" try to make it into that in one, nice wrapped up covenant. But when we consider the Abrahamic Covenant, for example, much of that are earthly blessings and such recipients are not necessarily spiritually saved. (The same is with the Davidic Covenant) I don't know why that's such a hard thing to grasp. And in addition, those promises went to a specific lineage (genealogy) of people. I fail to see why God in His Word specifically name a recipient only to have that "spritualized" to mean the church. I mean, look at all the genealogies in the bible, Genesis, Ruth Chronicles, Ezra, the gospels, etc. I fail to understand why God would name them all just to have it go to nameless, Gentile, waifs of people.

I can't remember how long I had been a Christian before I learned the distinction between Israel and the church of God.. and I can't tell you how amazing it is to see the grace of God in this light.. God is going to save Israel in the end.. the Israel of God.. in that Day.. the Day of Jesus Christ... when that nation does look upon the one whom they pierced, and mourn for Him in that Day..

Israel must endure even more awful events.. things like all nations coming against them etc.. it's crazy.. and it'll be the last ditch effort of Satan to destroy the Lord's chosen nation on earth and His leading them to repentance.. and they will be delivered in that Day..

Which will be a thousand years.. the Kingdom of God here on earth, with His annointed King of kings sitting upon the throne of His glory there in Jerusalem, the city of the great King.. and His resurrected Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. in that Day.. the Day of the Lord.

When the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our LORD and of HIS CHRIST.

 

[jasoncran]

reba, I AM NOT saying that the jews will reach the lord through the ot ways, that prophecy is stating the jew will try to reach god and he wont come to them that way.

a false messiah will come and take the place of god, then and only then shall isreal see who the lord is and weap for him as a brother.

read zechariah 14.

also read the account in revalation on har megiddo.(same account)

and include zechariah 9.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I can't remember how long I had been a Christian before I learned the distinction between Israel and the church of God.. and I can't tell you how amazing it is to see the grace of God in this light.. God is going to save Israel in the end.. the Israel of God.. in that Day.. the Day of Jesus Christ... when that nation does look upon the one whom they pierced, and mourn for Him in that Day..

Israel must endure even more awful events.. things like all nations coming against them etc.. it's crazy.. and it'll be the last ditch effort of Satan to destroy the Lord's chosen nation on earth and His leading them to repentance.. and they will be delivered in that Day..

Which will be a thousand years.. the Kingdom of God here on earth, with His annointed King of kings sitting upon the throne of His glory there in Jerusalem, the city of the great King.. and His resurrected Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. in that Day.. the Day of the Lord.

When the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our LORD and of HIS CHRIST.

Yes I agree with you.

You were lucky to finally see the truth. For me, I was brought up in an evangelical environment that always laid emphasis on Israel's role in the past and in prophecy. Even as a child, many lessons were geared to OT stories---- sometimes I get the feeling some churches rather truncate the OT and have only the NT. That's what I call the "Gentilization" of the bible (i.e. to ignore parts of it, especially the OT).

 

[reba]

Thanks Jason! :yes

 

[warhorse]

Friends! Recommended website!


Why I Left Scofieldism

http:// Why I left Scofieldism


No future return of Jews to Palestine predicted in the Bible; the 1948 founding of "Israel" not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just a secular event.
No Christian Zionism. No Zionism needed. Only return of Jews to Jesus Christ. Jews will be blessed by God, with or without a homeland, and will be saved only in Christ. God blesses even those who are not yet saved, by Christ's blood. God makes His sun to shine on all, the just and unjust alike.


In Erie PA Scott H.

Much of scolfeids notes from came from John darby the originator of dispensationalism, and the pretribe debacle. It has done great harm to the church.

 

[Eventide]

Much of scolfeids notes from came from John darby the originator of dispensationalism, and the pretribe debacle. It has done great harm to the church.

IMO Amillennialism is much worse.. as if this present evil world is the kingdom of God.. or that Satan is bound..

 

[warhorse]

IMO Amillennialism is much worse.. as if this present evil world is the kingdom of God.. or that Satan is bound..

There is plenty of scriptural support for the millinial kingdom, without dispensationalism or the pre-trib fable. Dispensationalism is the reason why the end times seems so confusing. Once it is cut out of the way, it all falls into place.

 

[Eventide]

There is plenty of scriptural support for the millinial kingdom, without dispensationalism or the pre-trib fable. Dispensationalism is the reason why the end times seems so confusing. Once it is cut out of the way, it all falls into place.

I can't imagine how anyone could believe that this present evil world is the kingdom of God, or worse.. that the god of this world is bound and that the nations are not deceived.. but this is what happens when the mystery pertaining to Israel is ignored and people are taught that the church of God is 'spiritual Israel'..

Amillennialism is what makes the end times so confusing.. because without the distinction between Israel and the church.. there's nothing but confusion. Rightly divide the truth between the Israel of God and the church of God and then end time events are rightly centered upon the future repentance and restoration of Israel.. which is a biblical fact supported by mountains of OT and NT scripture.

 

[warhorse]

I can't imagine how anyone could believe that this present evil world is the kingdom of God, or worse.. that the god of this world is bound and that the nations are not deceived.. but this is what happens when the mystery pertaining to Israel is ignored and people are taught that the church of God is 'spiritual Israel'..

Amillennialism is what makes the end times so confusing.. because without the distinction between Israel and the church.. there's nothing but confusion. Rightly divide the truth between the Israel of God and the church of God and then end time events are rightly centered upon the future repentance and restoration of Israel.. which is a biblical fact supported by mountains of OT and NT scripture.

1) I do not hold an amillinial position, its premillinial.
2) The church of God did not replace Israel as Gods chosen peaple.
3) The promise was never given to national israel, it was given to abraham and his seed by faith.

Romans 4v8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Eph 3v4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Gal 3v24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

4) It is the church who serves christ in the millinial kingdom because the promise was always by faith.

 

[ada]

I can't imagine how anyone could believe that this present evil world is the kingdom of God, or worse.. that the god of this world is bound and that the nations are not deceived.. but this is what happens when the mystery pertaining to Israel is ignored and people are taught that the church of God is 'spiritual Israel'..

Amillennialism is what makes the end times so confusing.. because without the distinction between Israel and the church.. there's nothing but confusion. Rightly divide the truth between the Israel of God and the church of God and then end time events are rightly centered upon the future repentance and restoration of Israel.. which is a biblical fact supported by mountains of OT and NT scripture.

Very good Eventide i support your posting and the thread starter with all of my heart.
All the israel firsters of the criminal terrorist state of israel and their christian zionist supporters
as the money greedy international talmudic jews who hates Jesus and the gentiles are terribly wrong.

Why is this why are they so badly deceived?
Why are they all supporting an industrial military complex and their criminal partners who are killing and
destroying Gods creation far beyond what Jesus Christ teaches in his sermon on the mount.
Why are they confused between earthly welfare, shelters, land and treasure in heaven, spiritual fullness and the temple of God?

Because they made to many compromises, care not whom Jesus warned them for and did not take heed for the true will of God.
They made a contract with the children of the devil so God gave them strong delusion to believe their lies.
Moreover i think it is also they never really repent their sins to God, and rather listen to fleshly israel billionaires and their established evangelists.
So they are together heralding their messiah the coming antichrist.

 

[jasoncran]

Very good Eventide i support your posting and the thread starter with all of my heart.
All the israel firsters of the criminal terrorist state of israel and their christian zionist supporters
as the money greedy international talmudic jews who hates Jesus and the gentiles are terribly wrong.

Why is this why are they so badly deceived?
Why are they all supporting an industrial military complex and their criminal partners who are killing and
destroying Gods creation far beyond what Jesus Christ teaches in his sermon on the mount.
Why are they confused between earthly welfare, shelters, land and treasure in heaven, spiritual fullness and the temple of God?

Because they made to many compromises, care not whom Jesus warned them for and did not take heed for the true will of God.
They made a contract with the children of the devil so God gave them strong delusion to believe their lies.
Moreover i think it is also they never really repent their sins to God, and rather listen to fleshly israel billionaires and their established evangelists.
So they are together heralding their messiah the coming antichrist.

i hope that you realise that the "talmudic jews" also put together the entire ot during the 400 yr silence of God tween malachi and the arrival of christ. the talmud was an oral tradition first.

are these guys right today? no. but theres so such thing as a non-talmudic jew.

christian identity movement i see.

 

[ada]

i hope that you realise that the "talmudic jews" also put together the entire ot during the 400 yr silence of God tween malachi and the arrival of christ. the talmud was an oral tradition first.

are these guys right today? no. but theres so such thing as a non-talmudic jew.

christian identity movement i see.

You can't compare apples to oranges.The one site is obligated to destroy Christianity
and gathered most of the earthly wealth and power, masked behind the alleged Gods
chosen and philanthropy using antisemitism as a protection racket for their criminal and
mafia activities, the other site is a small front of Christian fundamentalists of about
50000 people whose belief is a heresy.

 

[jasoncran]

You can't compare apples to oranges.The one site is obligated to destroy Christianity
and gathered most of the earthly wealth and power, masked behind the alleged Gods
chosen and philanthropy using antisemitism as a protection racket for their criminal and
mafia activities, the other site is a small front of Christian fundamentalists of about
50000 people whose belief is a heresy.

really, so i should hate muslims , and germans because a small lot did me wrong. that isnt what you say. orthodox jews, and reform use the talmud. interesting what you learn when you ask. i have family as i am jewish btw that arent saved and some are talmudic jews.

are they evil to you? and they dont kill.lie and steal. no,sir you preach hate.you arent the first to say this here. let me guess. jews are responsible for 9-11, and all things wrong and so is the adl a criminal organistation.

 

[ada]

really, so i should hate muslims , and germans because a small lot did me wrong. that isnt what you say. orthodox jews, and reform use the talmud. interesting what you learn when you ask. i have family as i am jewish btw that arent saved and some are talmudic jews.

are they evil to you? and they dont kill.lie and steal. no,sir you preach hate.you arent the first to say this here. let me guess. jews are responsible for 9-11, and all things wrong and so is the adl a criminal organistation.

First no one is without sin and so am i. But its a fact that the most filthy full of hatred book in the world is the talmud. Far worse than the koran by the way.If you call me a hater therefor go ahead that is your problem. I am just telling what i am obligated to and that is truth.I know why you can't stand this but you can't put me in a mental prison yet. This is not the place to list up quotes of the talmud or indicate to books or show all the atrocities they have done in the last century.But if you unbiased do a research on your own what happened with all their staged revolutions and as a consequence the death of millions you get an other point of view.The same people are still in charge but Jesus will crush their system to dust when he finds enough is enough.

 

[jasoncran]

First no one is without sin and so am i. But its a fact that the most filthy full of hatred book in the world is the talmud. Far worse than the koran by the way.If you call me a hater therefor go ahead that is your problem. I am just telling what i am obligated to and that is truth.I know why you can't stand this but you can't put me in a mental prison yet. This is not the place to list up quotes of the talmud or indicate to books or show all the atrocities they have done in the last century.But if you unbiased do a research on your own what happened with all their staged revolutions and as a consequence the death of millions you get an other point of view.The same people are still in charge but Jesus will crush their system to dust when he finds enough is enough.

the talmud? really. you know i talk to jews.and i have read some of the talmud. last century eh, you mean like the holocaust? the stalinist, mao purges? so the jew named karl marx is to blame, he didnt preach violence if i recall.

stalin wasnt a jew but a georgian. mao chinese, lenin wasnt a jew. one cant blame all the worlds problems on the jews. they didnt do it all. some of them are bad

btw jesus celebrated the TALMUDIC holiday called festival of lights.just because some or alot of the world happen to be jews doesnt mean the ENTIRE faith is hate. yes they arent saved but debating one of them on fb. i learned that the jew i talk to is a like the rest of the SINNING world. all leading paths leading to god.

i have a different perspective as well my family is jewish, and they are more like the above. i was taught not to hate arabs as they have right too live in isreal by my father. yup talmud jews they hate arabs. right.