WHY IS THERE EVIL IN THE WORLD?

[hawkman]

Oh ! I forgot, I have a question for you wondering .

If we are born with a "sin nature" where does it come from ?

 

[jasonc]

Oh ! I forgot, I have a question for you wondering .

If we are born with a "sin nature" where does come from ?

Adam

When we become born again we get the nature of our father Jesus .

A proclivity y to do evil is what wondering means .

I guess because of war where I had to watch kids sell drugs under the age of six or ten ,others shot them because they attempted to kill us

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh ! I forgot, I have a question for you wondering .

If we are born with a "sin nature" where does it come from ?

Jason is right.

God made everything good in Genesis, including man.
Man was immortal, had no sin nature, and had infused knowledge.

All this was lost when Adam ate the fruit.
Since he was the federal head of all mankind, his sin affected all mankind.

Now we die, both physically and spiritually.
We are born with no knowledge and must learn it.
We are born with the tendency toward sin - also called sin nature, or sinful nature.

Agreed?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Our conversation is getting out of hand because we're not understanding each other.

Im pretty sure I understand you, but ok.

Your making statement in the above post which I do not believe.
1. The bible never states we have FREE WILL.

The Bible does not address philosophical positions but assumes them from a practical point of view. That is, when God tells man to CHOOSE it has to mean that man is able to freely choose. He doesn’t have to point out that all of us CAN choose. That is a given no man questioned until philosophers tried to refute the obvious by using their free will to decide they don’t have free will.

This does not mean I don't believe we have free will....it means the bible never states it. It's taken for granted that we do.

Then it would be wiser not to oppose in words the statements regarding the Bible’s lack of saying the words “man has free will.” It’s really not a matter of believing because your free will chose the things you do and say each day. If we would have the mind of Christ, this wouldn’t be a philosophical position we’d be tempted to take. Christ knows man freely chooses.

2. No need to search for SIN NATURE in the bible. We're born with it. All of Christianity believes this.

Ah, that’s where we differ. I did a search and when I discovered it isn’t there AND read what God had to say about sin and man, I took that view. It’s not there so don’t search. Christians only believed this after Augustine. He introduced it.

3. I don't know what you mean by TEEN YEARS. If that's when you think the sin nature magically enters man, then I have to say this is incorrect theology.

That’s not what I said. But God himself said man chooses (freely) to sin STARTING in his/her youth. That’s what God says and I accept that and think so as well.

A moral nature or what we call character develops from
choices we make, one after the other. I know blaming something we are born with is A LOT more appealing to the pride, but there’s a catch to it and that is God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

4. I never said a baby has sin. I said a baby is born with the sin nature.

No one in the Bible thought this including Jesus. But yes, I quoted you incorrectly and apologize.

5. The coconut: Both are evil.

Ok, do you make a distinction between moral evil and bad luck or are they the same to you?

6. Adam fell and so did all of mankind with him. Since we have the ability to follow either God or satan, we are responsible for our sins.

Adam actually rebelled and so did most (but not all) of mankind with him. The problem is you have a grounding philosophy that says it’s not your fault but a practical one that says it is. When the pride doesn’t want to admit it’s rebellion, it can run for refuge to the grounding one…”not my fault.”

7. There were no storms in Eden.

How do you know this?

8. Sure. We could ask where courage comes from.
Scientists are studying where our conscience comes from, that's not material either.

They had had zero success because it’s not material and as such cannot be found. Scientists are now materialists who have to deny courage and kindness and love and hate because they’re not of material substance. But they are also people who have these within them in varying degrees and so cannot deny their reality. So their philosophy doesn’t match reality. They are not reliable guides.

 

[jasonc]

Wow. Jason.
I finally don't understand what you said !
It took quite a few years...
LOL

Btw the evil you speak of is eying where I live .a hurricane will be here tommorow

 

[GodsGrace]

Btw the evil you speak of is eying where I live .a hurricane will be here tommorow

Tomorrow is today.
What's happening by you?
Take care.

 

[jasonc]

Tomorrow is today.
What's happening by you?
Take care.

Uhm no,Nicole will hit Florida early Thursday.

 

[GodsGrace]

Im pretty sure I understand you, but ok.

The Bible does not address philosophical positions but assumes them from a practical point of view. That is, when God tells man to CHOOSE it has to mean that man is able to freely choose. He doesn’t have to point out that all of us CAN choose. That is a given no man questioned until philosophers tried to refute the obvious by using their free will to decide they don’t have free will.

Then it would be wiser not to oppose in words the statements regarding the Bible’s lack of saying the words “man has free will.” It’s really not a matter of believing because your free will chose the things you do and say each day. If we would have the mind of Christ, this wouldn’t be a philosophical position we’d be tempted to take. Christ knows man freely chooses.

Can't remember why this came up.
I never put forth arguments that go against what I believe.
Something must have been said, I don't have the time to go back and check.
Not blaming you.

Ah, that’s where we differ. I did a search and when I discovered it isn’t there AND read what God had to say about sin and man, I took that view. It’s not there so don’t search. Christians only believed this after Augustine. He introduced it.

We can discuss Augustine if you wish.
It goes along with this thread because it would be about original sin.
If you know about Augustine, then you know he was a big believer in original sin and even changed the view of the church at the time.
You could call the sin nature original sin if you prefer.
Or do you think that even THAT doesn't exist?

That’s not what I said. But God himself said man chooses (freely) to sin STARTING in his/her youth. That’s what God says and I accept that and think so as well.

Well, D, God didn't get on a computer and write the pages in the bible.
He inspired them.
If you want to believe that GOD SAID that we start sinning in our youth, so be it.
But I do wonder at what age.

A moral nature or what we call character develops from
choices we make, one after the other. I know blaming something we are born with is A LOT more appealing to the pride, but there’s a catch to it and that is God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

This is nonsense you're stating due to your beliefs.
Pride has nothing to do with this discussion.
Theology does, and you don't agree with Christian theology regarding this point.

No one in the Bible thought this including Jesus. But yes, I quoted you incorrectly and apologize.

Ok, do you make a distinction between moral evil and bad luck or are they the same to you?

Bad luck is evil operating in the world.
I'm not really sure what luck is...
But no matter.

Adam actually rebelled and so did most (but not all) of mankind with him. The problem is you have a grounding philosophy that says it’s not your fault but a practical one that says it is. When the pride doesn’t want to admit it’s rebellion, it can run for refuge to the grounding one…”not my fault.”

I don't study philosophy.
I just study the bible and what it says.
The other part about pride is covered in my reply above.

How do you know this?

That babies are born with sinful nature?
Ask any Christian.
I'm not aiming to convince you of this.

They had had zero success because it’s not material and as such cannot be found. Scientists are now materialists who have to deny courage and kindness and love and hate because they’re not of material substance. But they are also people who have these within them in varying degrees and so cannot deny their reality. So their philosophy doesn’t match reality. They are not reliable guides.

I didn't say scientists are reliable guides.
I just stated that they ARE investigating the conscious and what it is.

 

[GodsGrace]

Uhm no,Nicole will hit Florida early Thursday.

Report back Jason.
Good luck.
Hunker down, as they say.

 

[jasonc]

Report back Jason.
Good luck.
Hunker down, as they say.

For a cat one ,lol at the most

 

[hawkman]

We are born with the tendency toward sin - also called sin nature, or sinful nature.

I think we acquire the tendency toward sin because we live in a fallen world with other sinners, our parents for example .

If we are born with a "sin nature " where does it reside in the body ?

Agreed?

Almost, I hate the name " sin nature " . Natural and place blame on God, I guess .

 

[hawkman]

For a cat one ,lol at the most

Once stood outside in the eye of a typhoon , maybe a cat 2 . Very interesting .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Can't remember why this came up.
I never put forth arguments that go against what I believe.
Something must have been said, I don't have the time to go back and check.
Not blaming you.

I don’t recall saying you did.

We can discuss Augustine if you wish.
It goes along with this thread because it would be about original sin.
If you know about Augustine, then you know he was a big believer in original sin and even changed the view of the church at the time.

Well, he started it all.

You could call the sin nature original sin if you prefer.
Or do you think that even THAT doesn't exist?

Adam and Eve were the original sinners.

Well, D, God didn't get on a computer and write the pages in the bible.
He inspired them.

Yes and some don’t believe them as written.

If you want to believe that GOD SAID that we start sinning in our youth, so be it.

That’s what He said. One can adjust one’s thinking accordingly or one can take out a thick marker.

But I do wonder at what age.

Youth, its obvious.

This is nonsense you're stating due to your beliefs.

No, it’s absolutely true and works whether one likes it or not. Choices become habits and habits become one’s character with time.

Pride has nothing to do with this discussion.

Deciding your sin is based on a nature you were born with is pride pure. Humbling oneself is then is necessary.

Theology does, and you don't agree with Christian theology regarding this point.

I don’t agree with your theology.

Bad luck is evil operating in the world.
I'm not really sure what luck is...
But no matter.

Ok, you see no difference.

I don't study philosophy.
I just study the bible and what it says.
The other part about pride is covered in my reply above.

Too bad. Everyone has a philosophy whether they like it or not. The wise consider the options. The foolish catch it from others like the measles.

That babies are born with sinful nature?
Ask any Christian.
I'm not aiming to convince you of this.

I’d rather take God’s view thank you very much. He said the tendency is towards evil from a person’s youth, not infancy nor childhood.

I didn't say scientists are reliable guides.
I just stated that they ARE investigating the conscious and what it is.

I work in science. They are extremely foolish as its not material. But foolish philosophies leas to foolish people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think we acquire the tendency toward sin because we live in a fallen world with other sinners, our parents for example .

If we are born with a "sin nature " where does it reside in the body ?

Almost, I hate the name " sin nature " . Natural and place blame on God, I guess .

Well said.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think we acquire the tendency toward sin because we live in a fallen world with other sinners, our parents for example .

If we are born with a "sin nature " where does it reside in the body ?

Almost, I hate the name " sin nature " . Natural and place blame on God, I guess .

You agree with Dorothy Mae .
Where does our conscience reside?
Where does anger reside?
Some things are not material...the sinful nature is one of them.
It does not place blame on God.

Question:
What happened when Adam sinned?

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t recall saying you did.

Well, he started it all.

Adam and Eve were the original sinners.

Yes and some don’t believe them as written.

That’s what He said. One can adjust one’s thinking accordingly or one can take out a thick marker.

Youth, its obvious.

No, it’s absolutely true and works whether one likes it or not. Choices become habits and habits become one’s character with time.

Deciding your sin is based on a nature you were born with is pride pure. Humbling oneself is then is necessary.

I don’t agree with your theology.

Ok, you see no difference.

Too bad. Everyone has a philosophy whether they like it or not. The wise consider the options. The foolish catch it from others like the measles.

I’d rather take God’s view thank you very much. He said the tendency is towards evil from a person’s youth, not infancy nor childhood.

I work in science. They are extremely foolish as its not material. But foolish philosophies leas to foolish people.

This will end our discussion.
Adam and Eve were the original sinners.
They committed the original sin - there was no sin before that.
Sorry, but we're way off topic and it's been going on too long.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This will end our discussion.
Adam and Eve were the original sinners.
They committed the original sin - there was no sin before that.
Sorry, but we're way off topic and it's been going on too long.

Yes I was thinking it was time to stop. I said Adam and Eve where the original sinners. I do not know why you mentioned it. Isn't it rather obvious? And you introduced them, not me so it was you who went off topic, if you consider that off topic.

But its been a pretty interesting discussion causing me to think about my position and put it all into words, some aspects I had not considered. The only practical question that is of value is what happens in the hearts of those who embrace that they sin because of a sin nature they were born with and cannot help and what happens in the hearts of those who think they sin because they want and do not have and do not have because they do not ask.

This is the point that God is most interested in, what do we actually choose and what do we think about what we chose.