WHY IS THERE EVIL IN THE WORLD?

[Dorothy Mae]

You believe that a small child, just beginning to speak needs to be taught to form a lie and say "NO" they did not sneak into the pantry when nobody was looking and steal a cookie?
Really ?

I never said that and my kids didn’t do that in particular. There is a lot of poor parenting. But the example of kids as showing sin nature is not something Jesus said about children in particular so it’s best you don’t use that. Jesus said the Heaven is comprise of those like the little children. I take his view. Yes they need to be taught to think about others, but it’s not because of a fallen nature.

I take it you have never had children .
No small child needs to be taught to become angry that another child has picked up a toy of theirs and snatch it away violently from the offending child.

Again, that is not my observation and this is generally when they cannot trust their parents to be just.

You could not be more wrong.
Children do not need to be taught to be morally wrong, that comes by nature, the checks in the mail on that .
What Children need to be taught is to be morally right .

You are missing the point that morals are a concept. The understanding of moral right and wrong cannot be taught and humans only understand it at a certain age. Small Children don’t really understand it. Not the particulars but that there are morals.

Let me demonstrate this. Please explain to us what moral right and wrong is as if we didn’t understand the concept.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Wanting to be like God is pride.
Pride is a sin.
Sin is evil.

But they hadn't eaten of the fruit yet...
They did not have the knowledge of evil...
So? Why did Eve eat the fruit if evil was not in the Garden yet?

Dear sister, your concept of evil being a material substance renders your question unable to be answered.

 

[Who Me]

Why did Adam reject God's command?
Was there something in Adam that made him disobey?

He had a choice and he choose.
We can speculate about his reasons, all we know is that a perfect man made the wrong choice.

 

[Who Me]

Where was that evil in nature or in man if he had not eaten of the apple yet?

God declared that ALL he had made was very good.
Any theology has to deal with what the bible does say.

 

[jasonc]

Morals always existed but in God.
There's no such thing as morals for humans unless there are humans.

I agree with your first sentence. :nod

It is certainly a mystery to me as to where evil originated.
There was a thread like this on a different forum, years ago, it went on forever.
This one won't because it gets silly...
But it is an interesting topic.



Posting verses won't change your mind, will it?
I'm sure you're very familiar with the NT and I don't know why you don't believe we're born sinful.
BTW, children are not good to begin with.
They must be taught how to be civil to other humans.
They must be taught how to get along in society.



This is not correct.
Sin does come from decisions we make.
But I'm not talking about SIN.
I'm talking about EVIL.

Are they the same to you?
IOW, evil is what makes us sin.


Yes. Some evil comes because of our choices.
Hurricanes do not happen because of our choice.
Hurricanes are evil.

Uhm lightning and volcanoes create a life and we'll hurricanes opened and close estauries and well that is quite helpful .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He had a choice and he choose.
We can speculate about his reasons, all we know is that a perfect man made the wrong choice.

It says her reasons and they make sense.

 

[GodsGrace]

Probably will end soon as we’ve reached the point where further exchange will be repetitive.

Of course you can. But do a search for the noun “sin nature” in your Bible first, please.

Do a search for TRINITY.
Do a search for HYPOSTATIC
Do a search for GNOSTICISM

The bible does not state we have free will.
Does this mean we don't have free will?

If you adhere to a teaching that states we do not have a sin nature, that's fine...
but all of Christianity states that we're born unsaved.
Unsaved because we're affected by the act of Adam in the Garden.
The effect is called sin nature, or tendency toward evil - or sin, as you'd say.

Because no one in the whole of the Bible did. I take their view.

I said we're all born sinful.
NOT, we're all born with sin.

That’s only because you want to see them as such. Children do not have self control, true. And they imitate what they see in their parents which is likely the root of their choices. I know many many adults who don’t know how to be civil.

You can believe this.
But it's not the case.
This is too off-topic.

Find me a list of sins that are not decisions we make please. If I start to list them..theft, murder, unforgiveness, slander, they are all decisions we make.

A list of sins that are not decisions?
I don't know what you mean. Every sin is a decision, although some are so spontaneous we don't have time to stop.
(anger, for instance).

What’s the difference?

You don't think there's a difference between sin and evil?
I'm amazed.
Sin is something we humans do against God.
Evil is anything that happens that is bad.

So you are not responsible for your sin but some thing called evil is?

Who said we're not responsible for our sins?
Certainly not me.

No they are not evil. They are a natural phenomena.

A hurricane is evil.
Didn't Adam's sin affect everything?
Even nature?
Romans 8:21

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear sister, your concept of evil being a material substance renders your question unable to be answered.

I never said evil is a material substance.
That's rather silly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear sister, your concept of evil being a material substance renders your question unable to be answered.

I never said evil is a material substance.
That's rather silly.

 

[GodsGrace]

God declared that ALL he had made was very good.
Any theology has to deal with what the bible does say.

I agree.
But we ARE left to wonder how evil got into this world.
Calvinists believe God created evil.
This cannot be or God is misrepresented throughout scripture.
So, we have this unanswerable question.

 

[GodsGrace]

Uhm lightning and volcanoes create a life and we'll hurricanes opened and close estauries and well that is quite helpful .

Wow. Jason.
I finally don't understand what you said !
It took quite a few years...
LOL

 

[Who Me]

It says her reasons and they make sense.

They went against God's expressed command so her reasonings were wrong.

 

[Who Me]

I agree.
But we ARE left to wonder how evil got into this world.
Calvinists believe God created evil.
This cannot be or God is misrepresented throughout scripture.
So, we have this unanswerable question.

Evil is the absence of good.
God did not create evil, he permitted it to come into existence.

 

[jasonc]

Wow. Jason.
I finally don't understand what you said !
It took quite a few years...
LOL

Lightning realeased creates free nitrogen into the soil and volcanoes also create well land and soil that is rich .


Hurricanes opened or closed ports in my state .

I can post videos of Florida , particularly apromixate to mar El Lago of land riding and falling and mostly due to nature .

From maps by the Spanish to the late 1890s ,and early wpb county.

We have a ridge where by a train can use and was the only dry area that was mostly used by the Spanish in st Augustine as that is created by the ocean ,the one mile ridge ,it goes from the the state border to key Biscayne

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do a search for TRINITY.
Do a search for HYPOSTATIC
Do a search for GNOSTICISM

Why? What does the Trinity have to do with this? Off topic it seems.

The bible does not state we have free will.

Since we are asked over and over again to choose, it does.

Does this mean we don't have free will?

If reason is not a part of a man’s thinking, all kinds of assumed truths are missed.

If you adhere to a teaching that states we do not have a sin nature, that's fine...

I gather you didn’t do a search for “sin nature.”

but all of Christianity states that we're born unsaved.

No, Jesus said Heaven belongs to those like the little children. So that’s not true.

Unsaved because we're affected by the act of Adam in the Garden.

Sin entered the world, not man.

The effect is called sin nature, or tendency toward evil - or sin, as you'd say.

Starting in youth, that is, teen years more or less.

I said we're all born sinful.
NOT, we're all born with sin.

What’s the difference? (The Bible doesn’t support babies being with sin.)

You can believe this.
But it's not the case.
This is too off-topic.

I disagree but we can skip
it.

A list of sins that are not decisions?
I don't know what you mean. Every sin is a decision, although some are so spontaneous we don't have time to stop.
(anger, for instance).

Ok, so you agree every sin is a decision, a choice and yes, spontaneous ones ARE choices. Kill a man spontaneously and no one thinks you’re not guilty of murder. Not God and not man.

You don't think there's a difference between sin and evil?
I'm amazed.
Sin is something we humans do against God.
Evil is anything that happens that is bad.

Let me ask you, is there a difference between the evil
a man experiences when a coconut falls on his head killing him as opposed to a man throwing a coconut at his head and killing him? Are both the same kind of evil to you? There’s just one kind of evil in your thinking? Is only one of these evil or both the same?

Who said we're not responsible for our sins?
Certainly not me.

If we sin because of an unborn sin nature, it’s not our fault. God is wrong to punish us. We cannot help it.

A hurricane is evil.
Didn't Adam's sin affect everything?
Even nature?
Romans 8:21

You think they’d be no storms in Eden? You think that’s what Romans 8:21 says? Nature is waiting so they’ll enjoy better weather?

I never said evil is a material substance.
That's rather silly.

You keep asking where it came from? That is generally attributed to material substances. No one asks where courage comes from.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do a search for TRINITY.
Do a search for HYPOSTATIC
Do a search for GNOSTICISM

The bible does not state we have free will.
Does this mean we don't have free will?

If you adhere to a teaching that states we do not have a sin nature, that's fine...
but all of Christianity states that we're born unsaved.
Unsaved because we're affected by the act of Adam in the Garden.
The effect is called sin nature, or tendency toward evil - or sin, as you'd say.



I said we're all born sinful.
NOT, we're all born with sin.


You can believe this.
But it's not the case.
This is too off-topic.


A list of sins that are not decisions?
I don't know what you mean. Every sin is a decision, although some are so spontaneous we don't have time to stop.
(anger, for instance).

You don't think there's a difference between sin and evil?
I'm amazed.
Sin is something we humans do against God.
Evil is anything that happens that is bad.

Let me ask you, is there a difference between the evil
a man experiences when a coconut falls on his head killing him as opposed to a man throwing a coconut at his head and killing him? Are both the same kind of evil to you? There’s just one kind of evil in your thinking?Is only one of these evil?

Who said we're not responsible for our sins?
Certainly not me.

If we sin because of an unborn sin nature, it’s not our fault.

A hurricane is evil.
Didn't Adam's sin affect everything?
Even nature?
Romans 8:21

You think they’d be no storms in Eden? You think that’s what Romans 8:21 says? Nature is waiting so they’ll enjoy better weather?

I agree.
But we ARE left to wonder how evil got into this world.
Calvinists believe God created evil.
This cannot be or God is misrepresented throughout scripture.
So, we have this unanswerable question.

It was answered but you don’t like the answer and so are left not understanding. One begins to understand Matthew 13:14.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They went against God's expressed command so her reasonings were wrong.

Her choice was wrong. Her reason followed wrong desire. (She didn’t have because she didn’t ask.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The question of where evil
comes from assumes it cannot have come from salient beings’ choices but some THING else. Those beings choosing evil are not the primary source for evil in this view. It’s actually quite important as holding this view leads to not assuming responsibility for doing evil. Some THING else is primarily responsible. It’s a pity because assuming full responsibility will lead to humility with its resulting grace and full forgiveness. Blaming sone THING you were born with lends itself to missing grace and the freedom full forgiveness brings. It can anyway.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why? What does the Trinity have to do with this? Off topic it seems.

Since we are asked over and over again to choose, it does.

If reason is not a part of a man’s thinking, all kinds of assumed truths are missed.

I gather you didn’t do a search for “sin nature.”

No, Jesus said Heaven belongs to those like the little children. So that’s not true.

Sin entered the world, not man.

Starting in youth, that is, teen years more or less.

What’s the difference? (The Bible doesn’t support babies being with sin.)

I disagree but we can skip
it.

Ok, so you agree every sin is a decision, a choice and yes, spontaneous ones ARE choices. Kill a man spontaneously and no one thinks you’re not guilty of murder. Not God and not man.

Let me ask you, is there a difference between the evil
a man experiences when a coconut falls on his head killing him as opposed to a man throwing a coconut at his head and killing him? Are both the same kind of evil to you? There’s just one kind of evil in your thinking? Is only one of these evil or both the same?

If we sin because of an unborn sin nature, it’s not our fault. God is wrong to punish us. We cannot help it.

You think they’d be no storms in Eden? You think that’s what Romans 8:21 says? Nature is waiting so they’ll enjoy better weather?

You keep asking where it came from? That is generally attributed to material substances. No one asks where courage comes from.

Our conversation is getting out of hand because we're not understanding each other.
Your making statement in the above post which I do not believe.
1. The bible never states we have FREE WILL.
This does not mean I don't believe we have free will....it means the bible never states it. It's taken for granted that we do.

2. No need to search for SIN NATURE in the bible. We're born with it. All of Christianity believes this.

3. I don't know what you mean by TEEN YEARS. If that's when you think the sin nature magically enters man, then I have to say this is incorrect theology.

4. I never said a baby has sin. I said a baby is born with the sin nature.

5. The coconut: Both are evil.

6. Adam fell and so did all of mankind with him. Since we have the ability to follow either God or satan, we are responsible for our sins.

7. There were no storms in Eden.

8. Sure. We could ask where courage comes from.
Scientists are studying where our conscience comes from, that's not material either.

 

[hawkman]

2. No need to search for SIN NATURE in the bible. We're born with it. All of Christianity believes this.

We are born into a world with sin all around us and as we grow up we see others sin . We have the choice to sin because we have freewill and we make bad choices . I say we are not born with a sin nature, but we are born in a nature full of sin, our environment that is . A fallen world .

7. There were no storms in Eden.

I wonder if it thundered when Eve took a bite of the forbidden fruit .