Why should many lack?

[jasonc]

I guess if im faithful I will be assured to be a trillioniare.
what if some don't want that. the fact that the us dollar wont be worth much if we don't change. so a billionaire might not have anything but the clothes on his back. see Greece for that recent example. so if that does happen. was because of SIN that the Christian now has nothing(his sin)?

 

[Michael74]

...Job was full of fear...

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:31-32 KJV

Was the demand for sifting because Peter gave over to fear, even fearfully denying Jesus 3 times?

 

[Deborah13]

no revelation of trusting God, and Job was full of fear.

Really?
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Job bought into curse God and die

Nope.
Job maintain his innocence through the whole trial. It was his friends that were wrong in accusing him of sin and judgement. They deemed that he had sinned and that God was punishing him.
God rebuked them and they had to give a sin offering. God had Job pray for them.

Blessings. and please reexamine Job

I don't see you over in the Bible Study thread studying the Book of Job.

 

[Brother Mike]

Really?
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Nope.
Job maintain his innocence through the whole trial. It was his friends that were wrong in accusing him of sin and judgement. They deemed that he had sinned and that God was punishing him.
God rebuked them and they had to give a sin offering. God had Job pray for them.

I don't see you over in the Bible Study thread studying the Book of Job.

I read through most of that thread, why bother myself with such a thread? I talked to Ediff about Job, and he could not answer me when I pinned his doctrine down. Why trouble someone who has not got it all sorted out yet? Job maintained his innocence alright when Job should have been on his face asking for help. Job's 3 friends were in hot water with God, Elihu was the only one that spoke right about God. Read what Elihu said to Job.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:31-32 KJV

Was the demand for sifting because Peter gave over to fear, even fearfully denying Jesus 3 times?

No, Peter messed up before he denied the Lord 3 times. Peter even wrote about it and we see it with his interaction with Jesus.

 

[Michael74]

Thanks Brother Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thanks Brother Mike.

Pretty Humble answer, I'll help you see it.

Peter was sort of Jesus problem child. Peter and John were also constantly at odds with each other. Peter was also full of pride.
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
(Mat 26:31-35)

Now Jesus just told them, they would be offended and leave. Peter stands up and says, Your wrong Lord, the rest of these disciples might be, but I am better than them anyway. I will never be offended at you, not like these guys here.

If the Lord Tells you that you will be offended, that is not our cue to stand up and tell him He is wrong, or tell him we are better than the rest.
The right answer would have been, Lord, How can we have the mercy and Grace to not be offended and stand when the hour comes?

Now Jesus tells Peter that He will deny him, Peter opens his mouth again and says...... Wrong Lord, not me. This conversation pulls the other disciples into it who where smart and quite until Peter began making a fuss about it.

Peter tells Jesus He is wrong again, and cuts Jesus off from speaking, and rebukes the Lord.
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
(Mar 8:31-33)

Jesus can see Peter is listening to the enemy here. Peter grabs the Lord, stops the Lord in mid sentence, and lets the Lord know He is wrong.

If the Lord tells you something, it's not time to tell him He is wrong. It's time to shut up, and ask for direction. It was this, that gave the enemy a place through pride. Peter should have humbled himself, not made himself out to be better than the others, and asked for grace and mercy to make it through.

Peter Wrote Through this experience.
Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
(1Pe 5:5-8)

Was Peter submitting to Jesus...... Nope, Jesus is wrong.
Was Peter being Humble........... Nope, Peter is better than the rest, they will leave you, I am sticking with you.
Was there Grace to not deny Jesus? Yep, Peter tells us God gives grace to the Humble, and the devil is like a lion looking to sift someone like wheat who is full of pride and tells the Lord He is Wrong, not submitting to God.

I hope this has blessed.

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

Dear Brother Mike, I’m still not certain we’re on the same page on this. Satan didn’t come accusing Job of anything; he was solicited into testing Job.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

We read in Rev 12:10 of Satan being the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night, but Satan thought Job was so protected he wouldn’t even accuse him.

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Now Mike, God has a work going on in the life of every believer, and it is grace that provides the following.
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Regardless the attitude of Job, God led him in the paths of righteousness, and having Satan to test him was a part of that.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

This in fact is the trial of Job’s faith to bring him into the perfect will of God.
1 Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ
Job 23:10. But He knoweth the way that I take: when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
Even Job is beginning to recognize that.

Mike I ask if you’ll read two other short threads I wrote on Job at the following URL links.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/jobs-trial-brings-praise.57001/
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell.../book-of-job-central-theme.52997/#post-913449

Blessings in Christ Jesus Brother Mike.

 

[Michael74]

I hope this has blessed.

Yes it did Brother Mike. Thank you.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Now Jesus just told them, they would be offended and leave. Peter stands up and says, Your wrong Lord, the rest of these disciples might be, but I am better than them anyway. I will never be offended at you, not like these guys here

Where is your basis for the assumption that what your comments in bold were what the Bible actually meant/conveys? Show us scripture with good reason to believe that's no more than a twisting of scripture or at the very best, assumption of meaning that is better left assumption/opinion and not put down as fact.

And since you are using this to reinforce your thought process, please show us Scripture to back up this claim:

Peter was sort of Jesus problem child. Peter and John were also constantly at odds with each other. Peter was also full of pride.

You may be correct but I would like to make that determination for myself.

Pretty Humble answer, I'll help you see it.

I so want to comment on that.

 

[Brother Mike]

Dear Brother Mike, I’m still not certain we’re on the same page on this. Satan didn’t come accusing Job of anything; he was solicited into testing Job.

Satan came to God, I would need the scripture that says Satan was called, or solicited- Scripture only.

Regardless the attitude of Job, God led him in the paths of righteousness, and having Satan to test him was a part of that.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

So, your ignoring God when he told Satan harming Job is without cause. Why would you do that? Scriptures change us, our doctrines don't change scriptures Eugene. Also scriptures never, never, never contradict. They only contradict when we have a belief, or doctrine that is out of line with scriptures.

God tested Job, using Satan.......................... ?

Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.
(Jas 1:13)

Does God tempt, prove? He sure does. There are scriptures to back that up.
Does God use Evil to tempt man? Does anything God is involved with evil?

peirazō Go himself Temps NOBODY, not with Evil.
2) to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
2a) in a good sense
2b) in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
(Jas 3:17)

You need to do more listening Eugene, because right now it appears that you think the peace of God is watching your children get murdered in some twisted test of God. Even Abraham said, The lad and I will be back. Abraham knew something. Job knew nothing, and you believe God just had to prove something to a disobedient spirit, and have the man mad sick, loose all he had and have his children murdered.

to you, that is peace, and full of Mercy?

You forget what cost Israel.

And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness! And wherefore hath the LORD brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt?
(Num 14:2-3)

Now suddenly, things change. Despite Job living in constant fear, and the enemy is the one that put that fear there, Job is being tested, and job gets a free pass on hearing the devil, and just by some miracle coincidence, Job only got what He feared.........

What a miracle.............

I am done Eugene, believe however you want it. God murdered Job's Children because God in Job's case did not know Job's heart, despite being told to us by John, that God knows all things about the heart. So since God was just so clueless that day about Job's heart, He had to get help from a disobedient, worthless, lying being he created to help him out.

After all, God tempts with evil, has loved ones killed just to see what we are made of. That is our amazing God.

NO, Satan came to kill, How we stand and submit to God is what is important. Job did not resist, or submit. He sat through patiently blaming God.

Makes sense to me now. don't know why I never seen that before......................... wow.

 

[Brother Mike]

Now Jesus just told them, they would be offended and leave. Peter stands up and says, Your wrong Lord, the rest of these disciples might be, but I am better than them anyway. I will never be offended at you, not like these guys here

Where is your basis for the assumption that what your comments in bold were what the Bible actually meant/conveys? Show us scripture with good reason to believe that's no more than a twisting of scripture or at the very best, assumption of meaning that is better left assumption/opinion and not put down as fact.

And since you are using this to reinforce your thought process, please show us Scripture to back up this claim:

Peter was sort of Jesus problem child. Peter and John were also constantly at odds with each other. Peter was also full of pride.

You may be correct but I would like to make that determination for myself.

Pretty Humble answer, I'll help you see it.

I so want to comment on that.

What? from the fact they argued with themselves who was to be greater and from the fact Peter looking at them saying these may leave you, not me.

You need to just get over the fact I am always right (most the time) and know what I am talking about. (Most of the time)

Be blessed anyway.

 

[Eugene]

Makes sense to me now. don't know why I never seen that before......................... wow.

Mike, your ability at sarcasm surpasses your understanding of scripture.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

Mike, your ability at sarcasm surpasses your understanding of scripture.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

I do try hard. Blessings to you also.

 

[Kenny_ms]

What? from the fact they argued with themselves who was to be greater and from the fact Peter looking at them saying these may leave you, not me.

You need to just get over the fact I am always right (most the time) and know what I am talking about. (Most of the time)

Be blessed anyway.

Be blessed anyway???

Ouch.

You mean be blessed anyway as in, be blessed even though you don't think I deserve it because I press you for proof of what you are stating as fact? Yes, I think that's exactly what you mean. You really need to come down from up there Mike, the implications of that comment are showing you for what you really are and I don't think you want that to be known, but moving on to subject...

For the sake of sayn' it don't make it true, just give me the scripture to prove out what I ask and let's be done with it, please. See evidenced by the "always right" remarks and the way you answer, assuming you don't need to cite scripture, is that you feel you are above what we should expect of others here..... that in mind, it makes me even less likely to be able to just believe what you say without question as you think we should. Make sense?

Again, you may be right but please look my request over again and simply show me the verses and I'll even explain why I need that......so I can determine this wasn't just how you intemperate what you read but how it really was. It's not an unfair request...really.

 

[Brother Mike]

Be blessed anyway???

Ouch.

You mean be blessed anyway as in, be blessed even though you don't think I deserve it because I press you for proof of what you are stating as fact? Yes, I think that's exactly what you mean. You really need to come down from up there Mike, the implications of that comment are showing you for what you really are and I don't think you want that to be known, but moving on to subject...

For the sake of sayn' it don't make it true, just give me the scripture to prove out what I ask and let's be done with it, please. See evidenced by the "always right" remarks and the way you answer, assuming you don't need to cite scripture, is that you feel you are above what we should expect of others here..... that in mind, it makes me even less likely to be able to just believe what you say without question as you think we should. Make sense?

Again, you may be right but please look my request over again and simply show me the verses and I'll even explain why I need that......so I can determine this wasn't just how you intemperate what you read but how it really was. It's not an unfair request...really.

The scripture is already posted. Peter threw the rest under the bus

Listen to the spirit behind this Kenny.

Jesus speaking to His disciples.

Then Jesus said to them, You will all be offended and stumble and fall away because of Me this night [distrusting and deserting Me], for it is written, I will strike the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered. [Zech. 13:7.] But after I am raised up [to life again], I will go ahead of you to Galilee. Peter declared to Him, Though they all are offended and stumble and fall away because of You [and distrust and desert You], I will never do so.
(Mat 26:31-33)

This is the Amp, I normally use the KJV only.

Jesus just quoted them a scripture of something that is going to come to pass. There is no other options but to have this come to pass.
Peter stands up, and says Though (they, the rest of the group) will fall and stumble and desert you, NOT ME.

Can you feel Peter's attitude here? Pick up the spirit that is behind this.

OK, BE Blessed....... (best you can muster)

Mike

 

[Kenny_ms]

The scripture is already posted. Peter threw the rest under the bus

Listen to the spirit behind this Kenny.

Jesus speaking to His disciples.

Then Jesus said to them, You will all be offended and stumble and fall away because of Me this night [distrusting and deserting Me], for it is written, I will strike the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered. [Zech. 13:7.] But after I am raised up [to life again], I will go ahead of you to Galilee. Peter declared to Him, Though they all are offended and stumble and fall away because of You [and distrust and desert You], I will never do so.
(Mat 26:31-33)

This is the Amp, I normally use the KJV only.

Jesus just quoted them a scripture of something that is going to come to pass. There is no other options but to have this come to pass.
Peter stands up, and says Though (they, the rest of the group) will fall and stumble and desert you, NOT ME.

Can you feel Peter's attitude here? Pick up the spirit that is behind this.

OK, BE Blessed....... (best you can muster)

Mike

There ya go, not so hard after all, eh?

OK, I can at least see how with your view, you might feel Peters attitude was as it was. I'd even go so far as to say others might feel the same, IOW, it's not an outlandish assumption at all. So what you have here is possibility and to you probability or even dead fact as you stated it. Before I stated something as fact, it might be good to at least consider other possibilities and I'll give some reasons why there are other possibilities, but I will never say any of what follows is fact, just because I think it to be true as I am still guessing what's in someones mind..

It could very well be that Peter was just mistakenly overconfident and never even considered thinking he was better than anyone.

You say:

Now Jesus just told them, they would be offended and leave. Peter stands up and says, Your wrong Lord, the rest of these disciples might be, but I am better than them anyway. I will never be offended at you, not like these guys here

It could have been more like:

"I won't leave you Jesus, I just don't understand how I could, but I have absolutely no cause to think I'm better than them because of that. They are so much better than me in many ways and we all have our strong points"

And remember, you are getting into Peters thoughts here, not what he actually said and both of us are assuming. Also, keep in mind, this man had Jesus as his mentor, Jesus certainly addressed arrogance among what Peter learned, whether he applied that or not at that moment, we don't know but, just sayn', I have good reason to believe his thoughts, if he learned anything at all from all his time with Jesus, may not have gone the route you mention.

On your question, I can feel both possible attitudes but no matter what I think, I will not call it fact or teach it as fact but as a "could be".

At the very least, even if that were the case, I don't think it should be taught as fact overall because of what happened at that stressful moment. That in itself, far from defines Perter as thinking he is better than others or as being a "problem child" in general, unless you have more that you didn't mention.

 

[jasonc]

There ya go, not so hard after all, eh?

OK, I can at least see how with your view, you might feel Peters attitude was as it was. I'd even go so far as to say others might feel the same, IOW, it's not an outlandish assumption at all. So what you have here is possibility and to you probability or even dead fact as you stated it. Before I stated something as fact, it might be good to at least consider other possibilities and I'll give some reasons why there are other possibilities, but I will never say any of what follows is fact, just because I think it to be true as I am still guessing what's in someones mind..

It could very well be that Peter was just mistakenly overconfident and never even considered thinking he was better than anyone.

You say:

Now Jesus just told them, they would be offended and leave. Peter stands up and says, Your wrong Lord, the rest of these disciples might be, but I am better than them anyway. I will never be offended at you, not like these guys here

It could have been more like:

"I won't leave you Jesus, I just don't understand how I could, but I have absolutely no cause to think I'm better than them because of that. They are so much better than me in many ways and we all have our strong points"

And remember, you are getting into Peters thoughts here, not what he actually said and both of us are assuming. Also, keep in mind, this man had Jesus as his mentor, Jesus certainly addressed arrogance among what Peter learned, whether he applied that or not at that moment, we don't know but, just sayn', I have good reason to believe his thoughts, if he learned anything at all from all his time with Jesus, may not have gone the route you mention.

On your question, I can feel both possible attitudes but no matter what I think, I will not call it fact or teach it as fact but as a "could be".

At the very least, even if that were the case, I don't think it should be taught as fact overall because of what happened at that stressful moment. That in itself, far from defines Perter as thinking he is better than others or as being a "problem child" in general, unless you have more that you didn't mention.

aren't we all HIS problem children?

 

[Kenny_ms]

aren't we all HIS problem children?

Mikes or Jesus's?

:tongue

 

[jasonc]

Mikes or Jesus's?

:tongue

Jesus's

i'm Mikes special case.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Mike is my special case.

But I think he sometimes sees me as that brown stuff he can't quite get of the bottom of his shoe.