Bible Study Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

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Hello, will --

Wasnt sunday choosen because that was the day jesus rose on?.

I can't find anything in the Bible that says Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Do you have any chapters or verses?

thanks.
 
Bob10 said:
Hello, will --

Wasnt sunday choosen because that was the day jesus rose on?.

I can't find anything in the Bible that says Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Do you have any chapters or verses?

thanks.
Jesus rose on the sunday as far as im aware that is made quite clear in scripture so im not going to debate it. The simple fact is we are remembering god on a specific day that is seen as the lords day i dont think the lord will be irate with us that somehow the date changed. the simple fact is we still have the day that we hold as the sabbath. I also read somewhere that the jewish sabbath was changed at some point as well so who knows the original date.
 
evanman said:
I worship God every day.

as preacher book says there is a time for fasting and eating crying and laughing. so there are also times for resting/meditating (jeez i just cant find the english word) and working. it can all be worship :angel: never leave the worshi. http://www.amightywind.com i think God does care that we changed sabbath nin the 1000yr reign, there will be a saturdays sabbath
 
I just wanted to correct one thing in this thread; Jesus did not die on a Wednesday, it was a Friday (John 19:31ff). Under the Jewish system of time any part of the day was considered the whole day. So Jesus being in the tomb 3 days simply means any part of 3 days (Friday late , all of the day Saturday and early Sunday). So yes, Jesus most certainly arose from the grave on the first day of the week.
 
Hello, Collier

Under the Jewish system of time any part of the day was considered the whole day.

Jesus said He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights (Matt 12:40).

The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years.

But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact.

http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app144.html
 
The Jews always used an equal number of days and nights. They would never say 3 days and 2 nights, they would say 3 days and 3 nights even if they meant only part of 3 days and 2 full nights. We find examples of day and night being used to describe time where 3 full nights are not meant. In Samuel 30:11-13 and Esther 4:16- 5:1ff we find the number of nights used but cannot possibly be understood as being a 72 hour period.
 
Hello, Collier

Luke 24:21 reads in part, “...it is now the third day since these things came to passâ€Â.

If Sunday was the third day SINCE these things came to pass, then Saturday was the second day SINCE these things came to pass. That would make Friday the first day SINCE these things came to pass. So what day did the last of these things come to pass? If the crucifixion occurred on Friday would you say on that Friday that it had been one day SINCE the crucifixion?
 
Bob,
  • Yes, that would be how they would refer to that period in time. You even admitted as much earlier. Consider this: if I quit watching TV on Friday when Sunday rolled around I would say that it was the third day since I stopped watching TV. Even if I stopped watching at 4 pm on Friday and it was 4 am Sunday morning when I make the comment. I believe you would make the same statement in a similar circumstance.
I hope this helps and I thank you for your kind demeanor (sp.?).
 
Don't see what any of this has to do with Only Shabbat being the Lord's day.

So poor of people to ascribe only one day for worshipping God!
 
Is there any surviving Biblical story of anyone observing the Sabbath prior to Israel on the route to Sinai?

How about God Himself.

" And on the seventh day God ended his work which He had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made" (Gen. 2:2-3).


The very God of the universe chose to cease from His labor - not because He was tired (Isaiah 40:28), but because He wanted to set an example for all mankind. He specifically blessed and made holy the seventh day as a Sabbath, a day of ceasing, well over two millennia before the time of Moses and the Old Covenant.

Exodus 20:11 corroborates this fact:

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: Therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
 
Wow, what a fight against God, huh! (me or you?)

Hi, Elijah here: The message that I read the first time was that there is a different way of salvation for the Jew & the Gentile? Right or wrong? See Heb. 11:13. The Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 verses tell us that there is NO new way to be saved!!

You guys seem to confuse the law of Gal. (added because of sin Gal. 3:9) & the James 2:8-12's [ROYAL LAW] (Eternal Covenant) that [ALL] will be finally judged by to see if they 'really' are Born Again & [MATURE] Obedient believers safe to save, Nah. 1:9 with the law that Moses penned in a book? See Deut. 31 & Na. 1:9. (still again, LOVE is the 'tested' motive of ALL the 'finally' saved Obedient ones. And how it was done! see Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 )

Regardless: All & ONLY, [Born Again SPIRITUAL] 7th day Sabbath keeping 'Spiritual' Jew's (Rom. 2:28-29) will not take the Mark of the Beast! See Rev. 12:17!! That is the final testing of their professed, or degree, of LOVE of their MASTER! Read Rev. 3:16-17 death decree, that of the eternal Spewed out kind of sickening 'LOVE FOR CHRIST' that these Born Again ones even have! They do not even react to Christ's love for them as the 'COLD' could??

Same reaction as Cain's fruit sacrifice of Gen. 4:7 or Sun.'s comparison! Do you realize that NO WHERE was there the slightesr hint even, that Cain was not faithful up until this MATURE TIME! Even then, he was given the free choice, as will be all 'professed Christians of the degree of their real love that they clain that they have for thr Master? "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".

Surely there have been many sincere saints before this [final] testing that OBEYED the MASTER as best as they had known! These too were spiritual Jews regardless if they knew it or not. See John 10:16 for what transpires when they are 'LED' by the Holy Ghost in Rom. 8:14. (not all will do so it seems? see Rev. 18:4)

Perhaps one might explore the Born Again [POSITIVES ONLY] of Heb. 6 to see why this is most likely so? What more does one need they might say? I [HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD], [I HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST]!

In other words, they FEEL GOOD! They go by FEELING instead of PRINCIPLE! God said it I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT FOR ME as the old [TRUTHFUL] saying goes. True LOVE is a principle, not feeling or emotion! And this True Principle is what MATURE TESTING LOVE IS ALL ABOUT, it is just that simple!!

As far as MATURING goes, who needs that they wonder? So they mis/understand the WHOLE of the Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting [CONDITIONAL] Covenant! Read & study Hosea 4:6 with [our] last day [INCREASED KNOWLEDGE]. (even AFTER we have all of the Master's Word RECORDED.

You might wonder why the GodHead tested the first pair of Their [PERFECTLY CREATED] ones in the first place? Who by the way, were neither called Jews. The reason was that [ALL] of Their creating were [NOT] created with a [MATURE] Character! (even the other world's' as is twice stated in the Heb. chapters) This they had to develop. Surely the provision 'IN CHRIST' was given, yet it was their free DECISION to make!

Do you folk realize that you are getting exactly what you are asking God for? No law whatsoever! Look around!!! And ALL OF THIS just because the Sabbath Question is the bottom line of hatred! See Dan. 7:25 (come on now, please prayerfully read it!)
 
Regardless: All & ONLY, [Born Again SPIRITUAL] 7th day Sabbath keeping 'Spiritual' Jew's (Rom. 2:28-29) will not take the Mark of the Beast! See Rev. 12:17!!

The first ministerial conference in the apostolic Church is highly informative both for what was said, and for what was not said (Acts 15).

In the year 49-50 A.D., the issue of whether circumcision was required for salvation caused such dissension in the Church that Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to discuss the matter with the apostles and elders.

Various issues of current interest were discussedâ€â€issues such as idolatry, fornication and certain eating lawsâ€â€but the Sabbath was not discussed at all. It was not relevant. Why? Because it simply was not an issue. Nobody in all Christianity was as yet teaching that the Sabbath did not have to be observed and kept holy by the Church. Just the opposite, in fact, appears to have been the case.

James, who seems to have been in charge, concluded by referring to what was actually happening in that crucial time. "For from early generations Moses has had in every city those who preach him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues" (Acts 15:21). As S. Bacchiocchi, a scholar who has researched the question, writes:

We should note that James' statement refers specifically to the Gentile Christians outside Judea. It is therefore significant to notice that the Gentile Christians (possibly former "Proselytes or God-fearers") were still attending synagogue, listening to the reading and exposition of the Scriptures "every Sabbath." The total silence of the Council on such an important matter as a new day of worship [or elimination or even denigration of the long-standing day of worship] would seem to indicate that such a problem had not yet arisen.
 
Very true Bob.
Also the Holy Spirit was given in power in Acts and surely if there was any problem with Johns 'proof reading' way on over into the Rev.'s time, he had plenty of it to correct mistakes that he could & would have been required to straighten out if there were such a thing as mis/guided inspiration, huh? :wink: (misguided inspiration??? (well, the forum got the point anyway! :fadein:
)


---Elijah
 
It is abundantly clear that the Jerusalem Church never gave up Sabbath observance during the New Testament era.

On Paul's last visit to Jerusalem (about 58-60 A.D.), James and all the elders of the Church told Paul how the thousands of converted Jews "are all zealous ["ardent upholders," Moffatt] of the law" (Acts 21:20). In such an environment, it is inconceivable that the cherished and holy Sabbath would no longer be kept. The Sabbath is in the center of the law.

In his letter to the Church in Rome in this same time period, 55-59 A.D., Paul reminds them that the Gentiles "have been made partakers of their spiritual things" in a direct reference to the poor saints in the Jerusalem Church for whom Paul was asking physical contributions (Rom. 15:26-27).

One cannot imagine that "partaking of their spiritual things" would not include worship on the Sabbath, since it was fully revered by the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem and constituted a significant part of their spiritual lives.
 
As a matter of fact, Jewish Christians were keeping the Sabbath well into the 4th century in Jerusalem, the head of the Christian church. Sabbath and Sunday were kept side by side by many Christians. Why? Because the Sabbath was the memorial of creation and redemption and Sunday was the memorial for resurrection. To say that Christ, Paul or any other disciples changed from Sabbath to Sunday is untrue. Rather we see that the early Christians still felt that Sabbath was important.

However, to say that Sunday is the new Sabbath or should be kept exactly as the the seventh day Sabbath (as is Pope John Paul's new stand) is competely devoid of any scriptural, apostolic or early church proof. Both days serve a different purpose. You cannot say (as most Protestants do) that the Sabbath has been done away with and then observe Sunday EXACTLY as the Sabbath is kept. It is totally redundant and nothing more than a weak argument to not keep Saturday as a holy day.

Colossians 2:14-17 is another completely misunderstood text as Bob10 pointed out. For one, the word for 'law' is not even in the chapter so the issue wasn't the law being 'nailed to the cross'. What was nailed to the cross was the 'handwriting of ordinances that was against us'. The word used here is chaeirographon which means 'the written record of our sins'. This was 'against us' and taken out of the middle of us and nailed to the cross. That is why he took away the power of the 'principalities and powers' vs 15 who can no longer use our sins against us.

The issue here was judging. First of all, Paul was speaking to Pagans who became Christians, not Jews. If you look at the whole chapter, you'll see that they were worshiping' elements of the universe' and fasting to degrate the body (remember that the Greeks believed the soul was good and the body was evil) and that Paul was talking about how they were keeping days (and not necessarily The Sabbath) and the feasting and fasting going on during those days, not that they were keeping them at all. There were some leaders who were judging them and Paul was saying that because Christ has forgiven you (nailing your sins to the cross) you don't need to listen to those ascetic pagan leaders who are making you observe all these rules.

This has nothing to do with the validity of the Sabbath at all or about keeping or not keeping the law. It was about accepting Christ's forgiveness and not going back to their pagan ways.

Most people don't read the whole chapter and get the context or look at the cultural issues back then. This is why we have so many misguided interpretations.
 
Hi all.

One passage is undisputed, at least insofar as a clear reference to Sabbath observance after Jesus’ own lifetime is concerned.

This is Matthew 24:20: "Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath." This admonition is directed at Jesus’ own followers.

And such instructions would have had little place in a non-Sabbath-keeping community. Scholars are almost unanimous in agreeing that this refers at least to a time as late as the 66-70 war against Rome, long after Jesus' death. (The dual implications of this prophecy also show that Jesus knew that the Sabbath would be kept by His people later in the "time of the end.")

http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
 
Most Christians have been taught that Jesus broke the Sabbath by picking corn or healing the sick -- on the Sabbath Day, therefore doing away with it.

We'll say anything to try to defend our own behavior of Sabbath breaking.

We'll even say our Saviour sinned by breaking one of the Ten Commandments. How low will we sink !

Jesus was sinnless. That says a lot about how He regarded the Sabbath law, the fourth Commandment.

Jesus was clearly a Sabbath-keeper, not a Sabbath-breaker.
 
Bob,
Isa. 42:21 is prophesied how Christ would need to 'enlarge' the Covenant of the Godheads character. (Christ's 2 Cor. 3:3's EPISTLE!) Old Israel as a True Virgin Fold had been.. 'letter of the law', comandment killers! The history today is not much differant! But it is going from this history to the opposite extreme of no law! (and satan smiles, huh?)

And where is Christ in this?????

---Elijah
 
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