Bible Study Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

[guibox]

If anyone took the the time to actually look at my thread on Colossians, you will see form detailed study that Paul's main beef was the Colossian heresy of asceticism and the judging of the rulers who were making the people observe specific days in an ascetic way (eating, drinking, debasing the body). What was nailed to the cross was the written record of our sins, not any law, either cereemonial or moral.

Paul's emphasis was that they need not go back to their worship of 'universal elements' and their debasing practices because Christ came to offer forgiveness and end any power over them that Satan has (vs 14,15). This is the crux of the matter.

The issue was the judging of these pagan rulers, not the validity of the mentioned practices. According to Greek grammar, the 'these' in 'these are a shadow of things to come' in vs 17 could very well be talking about the judging, and not the practices themselves.

You can not find anywhere where these practices are condemned, rather the problem is 'let no man judge you'. From the looks of the Colossian heresy, we see that the reason is the strict way they were supposed to be keeping these days and festivals.

Trying to find any abrogation of the Sabbath in these verses is futile and it is not there.

 

[Bob10]

Saturday - the seventh day - was always the The Lord's Day and God never changed it.

The Lord's Day is the 4th Commandment and always will be.

Churchianity is wrong to abandon Saturday for Sunday.

 

[Khristeeanos]

This apostate christianity is just the ancient world religion under a new name.

Bob10,

Are you suggesting that anybody who worships on a Sunday is not a Christian and is a child of the devil?

 

[Elijah message]

If anyone took the the time to actually look at my thread on Colossians, you will see form detailed study that Paul's main beef was the Colossian heresy of asceticism and the judging of the rulers who were making the people observe specific days in an ascetic way (eating, drinking, debasing the body). What was nailed to the cross was the written record of our sins, not any law, either cereemonial or moral.

Paul's emphasis was that they need not go back to their worship of 'universal elements' and their debasing practices because Christ came to offer forgiveness and end any power over them that Satan has (vs 14,15). This is the crux of the matter.

The issue was the judging of these pagan rulers, not the validity of the mentioned practices. According to Greek grammar, the 'these' in 'these are a shadow of things to come' in vs 17 could very well be talking about the judging, and not the practices themselves.

You can not find anywhere where these practices are condemned, rather the problem is 'let no man judge you'. From the looks of the Colossian heresy, we see that the reason is the strict way they were supposed to be keeping these days and festivals.

Trying to find any abrogation of the Sabbath in these verses is futile and it is not there.

********
Forgiven for your sins??? What are you saying? They are not removed from the record books yet, and will not be done away with until Christ finishes His work! And our heavenly 'records books' will not be cleaned up yet either, (if indeed they will be) until this time period comes and not before! (see Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)

Ones life here on earth is to be judged at our 'final' ending! It is only [our faith] so far, that has us saved today, and that is a day to day working Obedient faith 'in' Christ that will be accepted as any real faith, anyway!

His law will tell the tale of the heart!

---Elijah

 

[Elijah message]

This apostate christianity is just the ancient world religion under a new name.

Bob10,

Are you suggesting that anybody who worships on a Sunday is not a Christian and is a child of the devil?

******
Hi Elijah here: No 'i' am not Bob 10, :fadein: yet, here is your answer in Act 17:30

"And at this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: .." (Judgement follows!) But, repent from what???

WHAT ON EARTH DO I NEED NOW, HUH?? I AM SAVED!! ???? I have BEEN MADE A PARTAKER OF THE HOLY GHOST! I feel great! I AM ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED to boot, right? :o

OK: But now I am no longer in [ignorance]! And 1 John 3:4 tell's me that!
"Whosoever committeth sin (BRAKES THE SABBATH) transgresseth also the law; for sin [is the trangression of the law]."

Now: If I LOVE MY MASTER, I surely will not do that for long, huh? (EITHER WAY!)

 

[Bob10]

Bob10,

Are you suggesting that anybody who worships on a Sunday is not a Christian and is a child of the devil?

Mt
5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Bob10]

No more watching movies or football games on Sundays.

Pope John Paul II has decreed that Roman Catholics should reserve Sunday as a day for God only and not for secular diversions, such as entertainment and sports, reports Reuters. "When Sunday loses its fundamental meaning and becomes subordinate to a secular concept of 'weekend' dominated by such things as entertainment and sport, people stay locked within a horizon so narrow that they can no longer see the heavens," the pontiff said in a speech to 35 Australian bishops, who recently made a pilgrimage to the Vatican.

The pope blasted what he called "the pernicious ideology of secularism."
Condemning the "culture of the here and now," the Holy Father encouraged the leaders of the church to "lead men and women from the shadows of moral confusion and ambiguous thinking." Noting the secular culture is undermining family life, the pope encouraged Catholics to remain faithful to the Sunday Mass.


Richard Lapchick, director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, admitted to The Boston Herald that he was "kind of flabbergasted by the pope's suggestion, because it seems like it's coming out of left field. We've been playing sports on Sunday his entire papacy." Of course, most professional teams, including those in Europe, play their games on Sundays. Who can imagine a Sunday afternoon between August and January without a National Football League game?


To which the pope says this: "Sunday is the supreme day of faith, an indispensable day, the day of Christian hope. Any weakening in the Sunday observance of Holy Mass weakens Christian discipleship." Lapchick had harsh words in reply. If the Catholic church did place a ban on Sunday sports, he thinks the church would lose congregants. "Sports is a religion in this country and a lot of the world," he said.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/packag ... ndaysports

 

[guibox]

I find it interesting how the Catholic Church changed their stance. Before it was a complete acknowledgment that Saturday was the Sabbath and the church changed the day of worship to Sunday completely on its own without any scriptural or divine mandate to do so. THey have also said that by going to church on Sunday, Protestants are paying homage to the power of the catholic Church as it was they and not Christ or the apostles who changed it. Both history and scripture support their logic despite the feeble protests of the Protestants.

Now PJP II is saying that the Sunday is the new Sabbath with all the virtues of the Sabbath transferred to Sunday. The problem here is that Sunday is not the Sabbath. They are two different days with two different functions. The seventh day is the Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week. To change the solemnity of Sabbath to Sunday is to completely undermine the unsupported reasons to do away with the Sabbath to begin with. That's like me saying, "Nope, no more oranges!", and then take an apple and paint it to look like an orange. Why do away with the real thing if I'm going to substitute a poor copy in its place?

Sunday, at the most, is a day to honor the resurrection and go to church. It is not a holy day, nor to be observed like the Sabbath.

 

[Elijah message]

I find it interesting how the Catholic Church changed their stance. Before it was a complete acknowledgment that Saturday was the Sabbath and the church changed the day of worship to Sunday completely on its own without any scriptural or divine mandate to do so. THey have also said that by going to church on Sunday, Protestants are paying homage to the power of the catholic Church as it was they and not Christ or the apostles who changed it. Both history and scripture support their logic despite the feeble protests of the Protestants.

Now PJP II is saying that the Sunday is the new Sabbath with all the virtues of the Sabbath transferred to Sunday. The problem here is that Sunday is not the Sabbath. They are two different days with two different functions. The seventh day is the Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week. To change the solemnity of Sabbath to Sunday is to completely undermine the unsupported reasons to do away with the Sabbath to begin with. That's like me saying, "Nope, no more oranges!", and then take an apple and paint it to look like an orange. Why do away with the real thing if I'm going to substitute a poor copy in its place?

Sunday, at the most, is a day to honor the resurrection and go to church. It is not a holy day, nor to be observed like the Sabbath.

****
Elijah here: Your last sentence is not right either! God said (COMMANDED) in Exodus 20:9 .. "Six days [shalt thou labor] .."

The first day is a work day! See Luke 23:54-56 & Luke 24:1

 

[Vic C.]

Um, correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't Exodus 20:9 commanding us to NOT work seven days, not commanding we MUST works six days?

 

[Elijah message]

Um, correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't Exodus 20:9 commanding us to NOT work seven days, not commanding we MUST works six days?

*********
Who pulled your bob Vic? :wink:

 

[guibox]

Um, correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't Exodus 20:9 commanding us to NOT work seven days, not commanding we MUST works six days?

The call to do no work and rest is specifically set aside for the seventh day. The seventh day was the day that God rested after creating for the first 6 days. The command was not 'one day in seven' but the seventh day. To show this even more, God "blessed, sanctified and made holy" the seventh day. This was to distinguish it from all the other days. To apply this to any other day is to negate the reason why God did these things, "Because in it, God rested from all the work that He had made, wherefore God blessed the seventh day".

If you are going to disregard the Sabbath, you disregard everything it stands for for it is the only day where we are commanded to do such things. Transferring its function to any other day is to play God and "teach in vain the doctrines of man instead of the commandments of God"

This is why it is not a light issue to just say, 'the Sabbath has been done away with'. There is a lot of things at stake here. Obedience, playing God, disregarding His laws, serving man or God. We must be extremely careful in how we treat the Sabbath issue, and that includes trying to make Sunday the Sabbath.

 

[Vic C.]

Um, correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't Exodus 20:9 commanding us to NOT work seven days, not commanding we MUST works six days?

*********
Who pulled your bob Vic? :wink:

LOL :-D

I think you and guibox misunderstood me. What I meant after reading that 'mess' of a post I wrote is that...God does not care if I work 1 day a week as long as that day isn't the seventh. The command wasn't Thou must work six days..... 8-)

 

[Elijah message]

Um, correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't Exodus 20:9 commanding us to NOT work seven days, not commanding we MUST works six days?

*********
Who pulled your bob Vic? :wink:

LOL :-D

I think you and guibox misunderstood me. What I meant after reading that 'mess' of a post I wrote is that...God does not care if I work 1 day a week as long as that day isn't the seventh. The command wasn't Thou must work six days..... 8-)

*********
Naw Vic, I knew what you meant, but I think the Lord must think that we are truly a bunch of lazy 'professed' Christians! ALL Work's are worthless most claim! Even for us to work 6 days a week seems to mostly be a claim of free grace?? Some even drive the car to the mail box, instead of walking! Have lights to turn on, + riding lawn mowers, if we don't hire cheap labor to do that? Turn on the automatic dish washer, the automatic washer & dryer, or you name it?

And shift gears?? Naw, that is automatic also, who remembers how to shift gears?? phones, lights, and heat? (chop wood? :fadein: I got to be nuts huh?) We get pensions, S.O.S. subsidies & on & on we go. And work?? Who works? If we don't get $20 + bucks an hour we leave it to the border crossers & complain about that! Or draw unemployment! And work six days??? Victor, you did not even know what God meant, huh? :fadein:

No, it does seem that we in the USA are 'knowingly' killing ourselves by our 'work' habits! Either physical or 'spiritual'! "God does not care if I work one day a week" you say?? Now, you are really botching it up! :fadein: Click on Proverbs 6:6-15

No, I am not being radical. But we are blessed of God! And what are we doing with His blessings? See Luke 12:47-48. Not much, if His message to us is taken 'personal' from Revelation 3:16-17. Us ones Love??

---Elijah

PS: And about the Lord's Seventh day Sabbath Commandment?? It is no wonder we see a Isaiah 42:21 verse! Most cannot even understand the other six day requirements? Hint! What happened in the creation week?

 

[Vic C.]

Ok, I see your point and agree with it. And just so you know (this is not bragging) I am old school to a point. I don't drive. I go through shoes not because I want them...I wear them out. I have been know to ride a bicycle 3 1/2 miles to the train station or church...and ride back. I don't own a dishwasher, cell phone, TV over 25", credit card(s), etc. I gave up my cable for good ol' rabbit ears again. I do carry a beeper but only because work requires it. I got into the computer 'business' as a hobby...mostly because of a challange that I could not 'fix' one back in 1993. The Good Lord turned this talent into a career for me.

If the Lord blessed me with a job that required me to work just a couple of days a week but still made ends meet, who am I to complain. I'd probably just wind up spending more time at our church. But don't expect me to be performing miracles anytime soon. That job is already taken! :D

 

[Bob10]

guibox,

your last two posts were right on !

 

[Bob10]

By clever speeches, and quoting beautiful verses about love and forgiveness, many preachers deceive their listeners into believing they do not have to obey God's Ten Commandments!

The Sabbath is also God's sign or mark (Exodus 31:13) -- "it is a SIGN between me and you...."

Sunday is man's counterfeit mark, the sign of disobedience.

http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/pubs/whykeep.htm

 

[Elijah message]

OK: Bob.
Here is a post off another site. We do believe that 'every thing should be as open as sunlight' right? At least I do! (Elijah here) _____________________


QUOTE (tdickensheets @ Dec 29 2004, 12:51 AM)
The Sabbath & Sunday

SDA Outreach

_______________________
Don't forget to click on the above! (it dosen't seem to work-perhaps you can write it in?)

OK: Elijah here. I am not an Adventist, but will make an observation on this site as 'i' see it.

I believe that Rev. 17:5 has these ones as ALL lost as denominations in present day TRUTH!! (folds) "MOTHER AND DAUGHTER HARLOTS" even in capes there! Not talking of ignorant individuals as in Rev. 18:4.

I believe Adventist doctrines are the Virgin doctrines of the Everlasting Gospel. Adventism are a 'fold' that has been rejected for other reasons!! "And the DOOR WAS SHUT" Matt. 25:10-11 are VIRGINS in Doctrines.

Now: The about the site that is posted? There comes a time that ALL FOLDS are judged first. 1 Peter 4:17 (The Virgin House of God, and the *professed Rev. 17:5 house's' of god) The Mark of the Beast finds ALL others, the worlding's tested last! That will be the END of the 'Finished sin' of James 1:15. THE DOOR IS SHUT for the first class! (see Luke 12:47-48) ALL OF THESE FOLDS OF REV. 17:5, like the site that I went to, and perhaps even the poster of it?? are for the most part past/tense. I suggest that the 'originators' of the easily proven false stuff are 'maturely' past/tense or at least close to the fact! See Genesis 6:3.
Think of the Words of GRIEVE & QUENCH the Holy Ghost. Then think of Romans 8:14 "LED" then read 2 Corinthians 4:2 and why these ones are rejected. Their work can all be compatable to Cain, as in 'MATURE' work, as seen in Genesis 4:7. READ IT S-L-O-W-L-Y!

The site has twisted & perverted just about eve(if not all!) every 'Doctrine' of Christ that it mentions! And one should know what [Christ' Everlasting Gospel] tells us about that!
"WHOSOEVER TRANGRESSETH, AND ABIDETH NOT IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, HATH NOT GOD.." ! FACT! 2 John 1:9 The Doctrine of Christ is the COMPLETE WHOLE! 2 Timothy 3:16 & Matthew 4:4 & Revelations last few verses.

And their END is seen in Hebrews 6:6 and Obadiah 16's very soon to be disposal.

Yet, personally for me at least, 'reI am thankful that God allows for this stuff to be brought forth to agitate Required' doctrinal subjects that might not reach a certain class of 'seekers' that otherwise might not ever be reached! "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" are an ETERNAL DESIRE OF THE SAVED ONES!

It is wrapping up, TIME IS VERY CLOSE TO BEING OVER! Now, ask yourself as you see it winding down, who is it that will use Ceasar's law to bring on the Mark of the Beast??? Remember that these ones teach that there is NO LAW REQUIRED!

---Elijah

PS: Bring it on, we have been on this sin sick earth way too long already!

 

[Eve777]

What day did the Early church meet, preach and bring thier tithes?

Act 20:7 And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Cr 16:2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. [/b]

 

[Elijah message]

What day did the Early church meet, preach and bring thier tithes?

Act 20:7 And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Cr 16:2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. [/b]

________

Will any here accept what these two verses mean??? I wonder? ---Elijah